BCA Auction

[MX7]

POORCARDEALER said:

Thanks for that input

Auction houses make money on commission. If they make more by having the public there, why would they be trade only?

I'm sure that there are trade only auctions somewhere, but I don't see why all should be.

[jdcampbell]

Fast Bug said:

Used car price guides don't only get data from auction prices. And at the end of the day they are just that, a guide. Some cars are wothr more than the guide price, some cars are worth less.

OK, point taken.

Fast Bug said:

The only other option would be to have closed auctions for dealers only.

No problem with that - it happens anyway doesn't it? Closed trade auctions seem perfectly valid if the manufacturer want to make the cars exclusively available to dealers.

I only really have an issue with auctions being run, to which the public are "welcomed", where a manufacturer is using financial bonuses (i.e.: backhanders) to inflate the sale prices above retail. Distorting the prices and inviting the public to participate and buy at inflated prices is dishonest. Try that in the financial services sector and you'll end up in jail.

[markmullen]

MX7 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Thanks for that input

Auction houses make money on commission. If they make more by having the public there, why would they be trade only?

I'm sure that there are trade only auctions somewhere, but I don't see why all should be.

Because a large percentage of private buyers trying to get a car cheap through them are incapable of understanding how they work.

[POORCARDEALER]

MX7 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Thanks for that input

Auction houses make money on commission. If they make more by having the public there, why would they be trade only?

I'm sure that there are trade only auctions somewhere, but I don't see why all should be.

Legitimate dealers only who are VAT registered should be the only ones buying at trade auctions....that will cut out all the "traders" operating who pay no VAT, tax etc...these tend to be the ones who offer zero comeback in event of problems with the vehicle....they are also driving prices up.

there are afew trade only auctions but not too many in the uk

[MX7]

markmullen said:

Because a large percentage of private buyers trying to get a car cheap through them are incapable of understanding how they work.

And your interest is to protect the poor, naive public is it?!!

I think that people know what the pitfalls of buying from an auction are. You may as well claim that people shouldn't be allowed to buy privately too.

Perhaps we should let people do what they want to do.

[MX7]

POORCARDEALER said:

Legitimate dealers only who are VAT registered should be the only ones buying at trade auctions....that will cut out all the "traders" operating who pay no VAT, tax etc...these tend to be the ones who offer zero comeback in event of problems with the vehicle....they are also driving prices up.

Of course, but what you said was that "All auctions should be trade only".

[Fast Bug]

jdcampbell said:

No problem with that - it happens anyway doesn't it? Closed trade auctions seem perfectly valid if the manufacturer want to make the cars exclusively available to dealers.

I only really have an issue with auctions being run, to which the public are "welcomed", where a manufacturer is using financial bonuses (i.e.: backhanders) to inflate the sale prices above retail. Distorting the prices and inviting the public to participate and buy at inflated prices is dishonest. Try that in the financial services sector and you'll end up in jail.

They use to be fairly common place, not so much these days I understand as the auction houses wanted 'retail' customers in. When I started out in the trade, Rover had dealer only auctions, and the only non dealer person that went was a guy that owned a fairly large rental company.

I blame Quentin 'clocked cars' Wilson myself

[POORCARDEALER]

MX7 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Legitimate dealers only who are VAT registered should be the only ones buying at trade auctions....that will cut out all the "traders" operating who pay no VAT, tax etc...these tend to be the ones who offer zero comeback in event of problems with the vehicle....they are also driving prices up.

Of course, but what you said was that "All auctions should be trade only".

Yes they should.

Legitimate trade.

Not money launderers with carrier bags full of reddies

[markmullen]

MX7 said:

I think that people know what the pitfalls of buying from an auction are. You may as well claim that people shouldn't be allowed to buy privately too.

Still on here we get people buying privately and then expecting protection, only in the last couple of weeks we've had one.

[MX7]

markmullen said:

Still on here we get people buying privately and then expecting protection, only in the last couple of weeks we've had one.

Caveat emptor.

You can't protect people from themselves.

[Fast Bug]

MX7 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Legitimate dealers only who are VAT registered should be the only ones buying at trade auctions....that will cut out all the "traders" operating who pay no VAT, tax etc...these tend to be the ones who offer zero comeback in event of problems with the vehicle....they are also driving prices up.

Of course, but what you said was that "All auctions should be trade only".

In my eyes, PCD has just described a trader.

Unless you're dealing in £1000 snotters, I can't really see how you can make a comfortable living turning over less than £79k. And if you are dealing in £1000 snotters, then you're probably the kind of 'trader' that will offer zero comeback...

[confused_buyer]

MX7 said:

Auction houses make money on commission. If they make more by having the public there, why would they be trade only?

I'm sure that there are trade only auctions somewhere, but I don't see why all should be.

They don't actually. Most vendors do not pay any commission but a fixed fee per car.

Traditionally, car auctions made their money by keeping payments on deposit overnight and earning interest on it. As interest rates have dropped car auction fees have gone up a lot as this is no longer a source of income.

[confused_buyer]

POORCARDEALER said:

Not money launderers with carrier bags full of reddies

Not anymore - bank transfer or card only at Manheim and BCA shortly!

[confused_buyer]

Fast Bug said:

In my eyes, PCD has just described a trader.

Unless you're dealing in £1000 snotters, I can't really see how you can make a comfortable living turning over less than £79k. And if you are dealing in £1000 snotters, then you're probably the kind of 'trader' that will offer zero comeback...

You can turnover less than £79k and be VAT registered if you want to.

[MX7]

confused_buyer said:

They don't actually. Most vendors do not pay any commission but a fixed fee per car.

Commission - A fee or percentage allowed to a sales representative or an agent for services rendered.

[jdcampbell]

MX7 said:

markmullen said:

Because a large percentage of private buyers trying to get a car cheap through them are incapable of understanding how they work.

And your interest is to protect the poor, naive public is it?!!

I think that people know what the pitfalls of buying from an auction are. You may as well claim that people shouldn't be allowed to buy privately too.

Perhaps we should let people do what they want to do.

You are missing his point. He's saying that members of the public should not be buying at auction because it's a right pain when they come squealing back because the car they bought at auction had some faults. I can understand that point of view.

Anyone who buys at auction should recognise they have no comeback unless the car was formally sold as warranted without faults.

It should be understood that's the risk you take in buying a car at an auction.

[MX7]

jdcampbell said:

You are missing his point. He's saying that members of the public should not be buying at auction because it's a right pain when they come squealing back because the car they bought at auction had some faults. I can understand that point of view.

Anyone who buys at auction should recognise they have no comeback unless the car was formally sold as warranted without faults.

It should be understood that's the risk you take in buying a car at an auction.

I think that the vast majority know what they are doing. Why are you presuming that everyone's an idiot?

[confused_buyer]

MX7 said:

Commission - A fee or percentage allowed to a sales representative or an agent for services rendered.

Yes, I know what it is. And the auction house gets the same from most customers regardless of whether it is a £500 car or a £50,000 car so the sale price makes no difference. They get slightly more in buyers fees if the price goes up but not if it is only a few hundreed.

The likes of Leaseplan, Arval, Inchcape, Lookers etc. do not pay the advertised rates!

It is the vendors who want private buyers there to push the prices up - not the auction house.

[confused_buyer]

MX7 said:

I think that the vast majority know what they are doing. Why are you presuming that everyone's an idiot?

If only that were true. Spend some significant time at auctions and listen to some of the conversations. The naive nature of some buyers can make you cry.

(That said, I wasn't complaining to the two buyers who bid an Audi of mine up £600 over CAP Clean needing a new gearbox, clutch and flywheel last week).

[MX7]

confused_buyer said:

Yes, I know what it is. And the auction house gets the same from most customers regardless of whether it is a £500 car or a £50,000 car so the sale price makes no difference. They get slightly more in buyers fees if the price goes up but not if it is only a few hundreed.

So why mention fixed fee?

The fact is, the more people you have at an auction, the more likely you are to see a car, the more commission you'll make.