Rovers - were they really that bad?
Discussion
Mum had a rover metro 1.1 which my brother had later on, it was a great car.
Still remember dad bringing home a new 214 when we lived Germany without telling mum he bought it. She went mad and hated it. The grey leather seats on a 14 hour drive back to the UK on a hot July day was the last straw for the car and it had to go, only a few months old to. We still take the piss out of dad now for buying it.
Still remember dad bringing home a new 214 when we lived Germany without telling mum he bought it. She went mad and hated it. The grey leather seats on a 14 hour drive back to the UK on a hot July day was the last straw for the car and it had to go, only a few months old to. We still take the piss out of dad now for buying it.
Steffan said:
I agree. Certain manufacturers like the VW groupings clearly have etablished rustproofing systems to the point where serious corrosion under 20 years on a VW car is so rare as to be most unusual. Others like Ford are still making cars with very poor rustproofing indeed, the old KA and Puma being prime examples.
From my point of view VAG cars of a certain era were awful for rust. I've only ever owned 2 VWs and one of those is the only car I've ever owned that I've had to use the anti corrosion warranty.My Passat required 2 new wings and a new boot lid at the grand cost of £2600 all in and judging by the amount of other VW owners I spoke to also doing the same thing my one was not a one off, there were lots of Mk 5 Golf owners also.
PoleDriver said:
RobinBanks said:
Jim the Sunderer said:
HorneyMX5 said:
HorneyMX5 said:
I dunno, the V6 sounds pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hakYbMOd7QM
Believe me, the V8 on straight-throughs sounds a hell of a lot better! 
Rammy76 said:
From my point of view VAG cars of a certain era were awful for rust. I've only ever owned 2 VWs and one of those is the only car I've ever owned that I've had to use the anti corrosion warranty.
My Passat required 2 new wings and a new boot lid at the grand cost of £2600 all in and judging by the amount of other VW owners I spoke to also doing the same thing my one was not a one off, there were lots of Mk 5 Golf owners also.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5661964-Post-here-if-your-B6-has-rustMy Passat required 2 new wings and a new boot lid at the grand cost of £2600 all in and judging by the amount of other VW owners I spoke to also doing the same thing my one was not a one off, there were lots of Mk 5 Golf owners also.
KV6 is a nice-sounding unit - sixes generally sound better to my ears than eights. My BMWs are a case in point: the six is a lovely musical sound that just begs you to extract every last RPM from it before you change up (which is what you need to do, with a P/W ratio only just the right side of 100bhp/ton), whereas the eight is just a stupid, raucous racket that appeals only on the most immature, Clarksonesque level, and there's really not much point revving it out past 5000rpm. Mind you, it's fun surprising people - I've probably got the loudest 'sensible' car in Surrey, and it looks completely anonymous apart from the bootlid badge, no different to an ex-sales-rep 520i... when I give it full throttle from rest, the noise is just outrageous... I also think OHV V8s (whether Rover, such as my old P6, or modern GM) sound nicer than OHC V8s... more of a rounded woofle to them... I often wonder why Rover didn't buy in GM engines, much lighter and more compact than the rather compromised three-valve Ford Modular unit they put in - a 75 running an LS2 would have been quite something.
My father bought a mg ztt (I think, the mg 75 estate).
Anyway, it was dirt cheap as he bought it very soon after they went bust. Despite the high rubbing costs, the car was brilliant as a car. Bmw must have thrown huge amounts at the chassis development and nvh. It really was very good. Iirc, he put on well over 120k without too many issues.
Anyway, it was dirt cheap as he bought it very soon after they went bust. Despite the high rubbing costs, the car was brilliant as a car. Bmw must have thrown huge amounts at the chassis development and nvh. It really was very good. Iirc, he put on well over 120k without too many issues.
Rammy76 said:
Steffan said:
I agree. Certain manufacturers like the VW groupings clearly have etablished rustproofing systems to the point where serious corrosion under 20 years on a VW car is so rare as to be most unusual. Others like Ford are still making cars with very poor rustproofing indeed, the old KA and Puma being prime examples.
From my point of view VAG cars of a certain era were awful for rust. I've only ever owned 2 VWs and one of those is the only car I've ever owned that I've had to use the anti corrosion warranty.My Passat required 2 new wings and a new boot lid at the grand cost of £2600 all in and judging by the amount of other VW owners I spoke to also doing the same thing my one was not a one off, there were lots of Mk 5 Golf owners also.
Steffan said:
I agree. Certain manufacturers like the VW groupings clearly have etablished rustproofing systems to the point where serious corrosion under 20 years on a VW car is so rare as to be most unusual.
Are we ignoring the dreadful rust problems on Mk5 Golfs where VW thought putting sponges inside the wing for soundproofing was a great idea until they started to rust through from the inside?My father had a string of BL stuff in the 70s and 80s as many did - hard to explain to youngsters now but foreign cars were oftern seen as a risk. Every garage could work on a BL car and the parts were easily and cheaply available.
Anyway, he ended up with a 1.6 Montego when his old Volvo 244 got written off and hated it - the door would always close on him and stab him in the back!
He had a series 1 Disco which leaked like a sieve and was gutless (TDi).
Rover 620ti that I talked him into - was lots of fun and a seriously capable car. IIRC it didn't give him any trouble at all but the interior was a bit bland and he got bored - he soon ended up back in a turbo Saab.
My brother had 3 Minis and a later "bubble" shape Rover 216Si - this was a cracking car, and he had very little trouble with it.
My first car, as a result was a previous wedge shaped 214Si - seemed like a good plan at the time, but it was a real lemon - head gasket went within 2 months, clutch, gearbox mounts, exhaust, front calipers, loads more I can't remember. When it worked it was perfectly acceptable but it was a real Friday afternoon car. Eventually died when it blew a hole in an exhaust valve on the M20 one morning.
Replaced it with a 1.6 Rover 25 which was a real gem. Quite peppy and didn't handle badly at all, only problem I ever had was a slight misfire cured with some new HT leads.
I think Rover were much maligned, their cars weren't bad, and their engineers were fast rate. They suffered from the old fart image, lazy management and utterly shocking and dishonest dealers (in my personal experience anyway).
Anyway, he ended up with a 1.6 Montego when his old Volvo 244 got written off and hated it - the door would always close on him and stab him in the back!
He had a series 1 Disco which leaked like a sieve and was gutless (TDi).
Rover 620ti that I talked him into - was lots of fun and a seriously capable car. IIRC it didn't give him any trouble at all but the interior was a bit bland and he got bored - he soon ended up back in a turbo Saab.
My brother had 3 Minis and a later "bubble" shape Rover 216Si - this was a cracking car, and he had very little trouble with it.
My first car, as a result was a previous wedge shaped 214Si - seemed like a good plan at the time, but it was a real lemon - head gasket went within 2 months, clutch, gearbox mounts, exhaust, front calipers, loads more I can't remember. When it worked it was perfectly acceptable but it was a real Friday afternoon car. Eventually died when it blew a hole in an exhaust valve on the M20 one morning.
Replaced it with a 1.6 Rover 25 which was a real gem. Quite peppy and didn't handle badly at all, only problem I ever had was a slight misfire cured with some new HT leads.
I think Rover were much maligned, their cars weren't bad, and their engineers were fast rate. They suffered from the old fart image, lazy management and utterly shocking and dishonest dealers (in my personal experience anyway).
Meandering through this thread is making me miss my P5s and P6s more than is probably good for me, none were perfect but they were so well put together, great to drive and very comfortable. Four of them were used as daily hacks and the odd duff battery aside they were very reliable - the most recent two, which I wish I still owned...
1970 P5B Coupe...
1972 P6B Auto...
Blimey it's a bit dusty in here, think I've got something in my eye...
1970 P5B Coupe...
1972 P6B Auto...
Blimey it's a bit dusty in here, think I've got something in my eye...
Ali_T said:
Steffan said:
I agree. Certain manufacturers like the VW groupings clearly have etablished rustproofing systems to the point where serious corrosion under 20 years on a VW car is so rare as to be most unusual.
Are we ignoring the dreadful rust problems on Mk5 Golfs where VW thought putting sponges inside the wing for soundproofing was a great idea until they started to rust through from the inside?St John Smythe said:
Ali_T said:
Steffan said:
I agree. Certain manufacturers like the VW groupings clearly have etablished rustproofing systems to the point where serious corrosion under 20 years on a VW car is so rare as to be most unusual.
Are we ignoring the dreadful rust problems on Mk5 Golfs where VW thought putting sponges inside the wing for soundproofing was a great idea until they started to rust through from the inside?My comments are a reflection of the fact that modern VW group cars seem to be very resistant to serious body rot. There may well have been problems years ago but clearly VW have decided that up with that they will not put. The many garage owners I have known in business (Accountant) always indicated to me that rust was no longer a concern with VW cars post this VW change of approach. Indeed old Polos seem to go one forever in bodywork terms they seem to be everlasting.
All my experiences over the many years of driving about the UK have also confirmed to me that VW cars are exceptionally well rustproofed. MOT stations that I have worked with have commented that rst is rare in the extreme on these cars. I am personally not a fan of VW cars because they are too Teutonic and dark inside. Altogether not my sort of car . But I do admire the quality control which seems pretty good to me.
Personally some of my favourite cars were Rovers. I had a number of Mini's including both Riley Elf and Wolseley Hornet and Mini Cooper, Mini Cooer S, and Mini Turbo's, Austin 1100, MG 1300, Wolsley 2200, Wolseley 1800, MG Magnet, Wolseley 4/50 which I still have and a number of Land Rovers, Range Rovers and Freelanders. Loved the various SD1 cars I had the best being a Vanden Plas special which I wish I still had. At least I still have the Wolseley. Still going strong! At some cost!
But in reality as I posted earlier on here no business can allow the awful quality that was coming out of the BL group regularly, and actually survive. A friend who was MD of PJ Evans years ago switched to business with Ford personslly, when the Allegro came out because he coud see it was literally rubbish and realised the writing was on the wall. The car it replaced was streets ahead.
There were individual cars made by the BL group that were good, driveable cars. The Mini revolutionsed car design and then BL brought out the Marina. But no business can produce the appalling, Marina, the Allegro, the compete nonsense that was the Stag with the engine likely to expire daily, and continue in business. Rover went bust because the business was not controlled and managed effectively. Despite several "rescues" by politicians desperate to keep the jobs in the UK, understandably.. Chance after chance was thrown away.
Business is about getting things right much more often than getting things wrong. Rover did not do that. Despite chance after chance after chance and despite having unequalled designers within the Rover group,. No business can survive like that.
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