Rovers - were they really that bad?
Discussion
dme123 said:
Negative Creep said:
Anyone else think the 800 Coupe has aged really well?
I certainly wouldn't say no to one
I had one in Vitesse guise and thought it was very handsome at the time. If they'd restyled the 800 at facelift to look more like a 4 door version of that things could have gone better. I certainly wouldn't say no to one
It was poorly put together and the 2 litre turbocharged engine was very rough (if effective) and totally out of character for the car.
I have had 4 Rovers / MG cars.
First was an 825SD saloon with the 2.5 VM Italia diesel in it.
Second was an 800 Vitesse Sport saloon
Third was a 620Ti
Fourth was a MG ZT CDTi.
The only one I didnt like was the 600. The Diesel served a purpose and was largely reliable until a few days before I sold it (the radio stopped working and the downpipe snapped)
The Vitesse Sport only suffered a snapped downpipe and the header tank had a snapped pipe. I really regretted selling this for a rusty Cosworth
The 620 suffered hydraulic clutch cylinder failure and I struggled to find one. I also manage to swipe a control post when parking it in very bright direct in my eyes sunlight one day. I sold this gleefully! Having to lift the clutch pedal from the floor after changing gear was not fun!
The MG ZT CDTi did me for a few years, reliable, economical, nippy (wouldnt say fast at all, even with a remap). The clutch and flywheel failed and the braking system had a bit of a fault (brake pedal would go very hard then soft). I sold it as faulty.
My favourite one was the Vitesse Sport. Recaro's, big car and quite amusing to drive. I wish I'd of kept it.
First was an 825SD saloon with the 2.5 VM Italia diesel in it.
Second was an 800 Vitesse Sport saloon
Third was a 620Ti
Fourth was a MG ZT CDTi.
The only one I didnt like was the 600. The Diesel served a purpose and was largely reliable until a few days before I sold it (the radio stopped working and the downpipe snapped)
The Vitesse Sport only suffered a snapped downpipe and the header tank had a snapped pipe. I really regretted selling this for a rusty Cosworth
The 620 suffered hydraulic clutch cylinder failure and I struggled to find one. I also manage to swipe a control post when parking it in very bright direct in my eyes sunlight one day. I sold this gleefully! Having to lift the clutch pedal from the floor after changing gear was not fun!
The MG ZT CDTi did me for a few years, reliable, economical, nippy (wouldnt say fast at all, even with a remap). The clutch and flywheel failed and the braking system had a bit of a fault (brake pedal would go very hard then soft). I sold it as faulty.
My favourite one was the Vitesse Sport. Recaro's, big car and quite amusing to drive. I wish I'd of kept it.
hidetheelephants said:
Palmer got the hoof because the Pathfinder was more of a ditchfinder, the handling was woeful and much worse than the RMA/B it replaced. .
Only when the Panhard rod mounting broke off due to crap welding. I think the Police were the first to find that one out. The Mark 1 Jaguar with it's narrow rear track was a handful as well and these guys were basically finding their way and inventing stuff -they couldn't get away with it now. The official reason for his sacking was a road test on the Wolseley version (6/90?) where the gear lever between the drivers seat and the door was found to be less that ideal.RoverP6B said:
V8forweekends said:
They didn't offer the K-series engine in the US.
So what did they use? The whole Freelander range was K-series in the UK - in both four-cylinder and V6 forms.Spookedmoose said:
V8forweekends said:
They didn't offer the K-series engine in the US.
I think they were generally average, in the last years the cars were obviously very dated and were made worse by cost cutting. We've had a few rovers in the family with no huge problems.
The head gasket issues were blown out of proportion - It's no excuse but other makes were building engines with far worse problems which people weren't anywhere near as aware of - eg merc m271 'kompressor' engines with destructing timing chains
The head gasket issues were blown out of proportion - It's no excuse but other makes were building engines with far worse problems which people weren't anywhere near as aware of - eg merc m271 'kompressor' engines with destructing timing chains
SuperHangOn said:
I think they were generally average, in the last years the cars were obviously very dated and were made worse by cost cutting. We've had a few rovers in the family with no huge problems.
The head gasket issues were blown out of proportion - It's no excuse but other makes were building engines with far worse problems which people weren't anywhere near as aware of - eg merc m271 'kompressor' engines with destructing timing chains
Until couple of years ago Porsche were building engines with probably worse reliability than a K series The head gasket issues were blown out of proportion - It's no excuse but other makes were building engines with far worse problems which people weren't anywhere near as aware of - eg merc m271 'kompressor' engines with destructing timing chains
Its fair to say that some cars were badly built for instance my Dad had a Montego which from new wouldn't start properly and ultimately melted the throttle cable, the engine was earthing through it, having said that in 2007 my new £45k Audi A6 broke down on sits second day because the engine was earthing through the door/window/locking ecu
iSore said:
hidetheelephants said:
Palmer got the hoof because the Pathfinder was more of a ditchfinder, the handling was woeful and much worse than the RMA/B it replaced. .
Only when the Panhard rod mounting broke off due to crap welding. I think the Police were the first to find that one out. The Mark 1 Jaguar with it's narrow rear track was a handful as well and these guys were basically finding their way and inventing stuff -they couldn't get away with it now. The official reason for his sacking was a road test on the Wolseley version (6/90?) where the gear lever between the drivers seat and the door was found to be less that ideal.The Jowett Javelin, which was certainly Palmers greatest achievement was an outstanding design bringing FWD and horizontally opposed engines and an exceptionally svelte streamilined shape to post war Britain at a time when other manufacturers were way behind and still making cars designed pre war with technology far behind that of the Palmer designed, Javelin.
Sadly the flat four engine had very serious weaknesses, which ruined the reliability of the cars. In addition the Meadows gearbox in the car was replaced by a shoddy design at Jowett which effectively killed the car and the firm folded.
The Palmer designs of the badge engineering Wolseley 4/44 and Riley 1.5 were really very good designs. Several others he had a hand in were excellent designs including the early post war Morris Oxford I think. An underrated designer who fell foul of Lenoard Lord and paid the price. He went on to work for Vauxhall on the smaler cars! I think.
Palmer and Issigonis were contemporaries at BMC for some years in the design department. Both developed very individual sports car specials independantly of each other , which allowed them to test their theories on suspension design, the use of torsion bars and so on. Both made a substantial contribution to Britsh Motoring in the post war years but Issigonis really soared in reputation as the Mini soared in the imagination and appreciation of the motoring public.
Personally I think that some of Gerald Palmer designs were truly exceptional including the Jowett Javelin. Pity was that Jowett were never able to capitalise on probably the best designed post war Britsh car before the arrival of the Mini. Poor engineering and the lack of adequate product development finished Javelin in the same way as it did later with the rump of the failing BLMC/BL/Rover debacle. Moral in there somewhere I think?
Taz1383 said:
How can people dispute the K series when you can get 190bhp without VVC from them, bore out to 2l like they did for BTCC, rev to 8k, used in caterhams ( and would have continued to be if availability was there ).
Ringing one to 7k regularly is a true joy.
Im sorry but, ringing a 4 cylinder engine is not a joy. Ringing a 6, 8, 10, 12 or 16. Now thats joy.Ringing one to 7k regularly is a true joy.
Rob_F said:
I liked mine! Was a lot of fun to drive, really controllable lift off oversteer, great noise, good feel. Really missed it when I sold it for a Megane R26. Spent the first month with the Renault wishing I hadn't changed....
That pic makes the ZT look quite good. Some of the reviews I saw used to say that the ZT bumpers and spoilers didnt suit the 75. I thought it made it look a lot better.The ZT is a fine car tbh. Good seats, handles quite well, decent size. I think the facelift spoiled it a little bit but thats subjective.
My 2003 car had NO rust on it at all. it was 10 years old when I sold it and the body work was looking decent still.
As i previously posted but didn't mention, when the head gasket went on the ex's 45 the liners had also dropped hence the garage advising get rid of quick.
Also workmate had HGF twice on his Land Rover Freelander and mates 25 had HGF as well.
Was this not because of an undersized/inadequate cooling and oil system ?
Also workmate had HGF twice on his Land Rover Freelander and mates 25 had HGF as well.
Was this not because of an undersized/inadequate cooling and oil system ?
TheAngryDog said:
No dropped liners then?
Spanglepants said:
As i previously posted but didn't mention, when the head gasket went on the ex's 45 the liners had also dropped hence the garage advising get rid of quick.
Also workmate had HGF twice on his Land Rover Freelander and mates 25 had HGF as well.
Was this not because of an undersized/inadequate cooling and oil system ?
The cooling system was a weak link on the K Series. It is one of the reasons I didn't get a ZT 1.8t, however, if you keep a regular check on the header tank level, you'll get an early indicator of whether there is an issue or not.Also workmate had HGF twice on his Land Rover Freelander and mates 25 had HGF as well.
Was this not because of an undersized/inadequate cooling and oil system ?
TheAngryDog said:
No dropped liners then?
TheAngryDog said:
Rob_F said:
I liked mine! Was a lot of fun to drive, really controllable lift off oversteer, great noise, good feel. Really missed it when I sold it for a Megane R26. Spent the first month with the Renault wishing I hadn't changed....
That pic makes the ZT look quite good. Some of the reviews I saw used to say that the ZT bumpers and spoilers didnt suit the 75. I thought it made it look a lot better.The ZT is a fine car tbh. Good seats, handles quite well, decent size. I think the facelift spoiled it a little bit but thats subjective.
My 2003 car had NO rust on it at all. it was 10 years old when I sold it and the body work was looking decent still.
I've some experience with Rover over the years. My Mum had a Rover 820 fastback some years ago. I was young at the time but just recall how huge it was. She then bought a Rover 620 from new and had that for around 13 years. Lovely car really. Very underrated for what they were. Never had any trouble with it in the whole time she owned it and it rarely saw a service.
I've owned a 218vvc coupe. Look dated now but at the time it was a lovely looking thing. Mine had issues (probably the head gasket in all honesty) although when it ran well, it was a really nice car. Full leather interior that was a lovely place to be.
I later owned a late 200 hatchback (the bubble shape). Just a cheap run around I picked up off ebay. Served me well for around 4 months until the MOT ran out and it was uneconomical to repair due to rust around the rear suspension. It was a nice little thing. 1.4 8v engine was nippy enough and good on fuel. The interior wasn't bad. Super comfy seats though.
Would love a ZT.
sjc said:
Dave G fsi said:
Friend recently bought a V6 rover 75, and subsequently had to do the clutch (it was only on 40k and had already been done once). When doing it, you have to do the master cylinder and flywheel at the same time, cost him £800.....
In fairness,that may well say more about how the an owner/owners have used the clutch,than it does about a car that could be anything between 7 and 14 years old.On the 1.8 K Series, I recall being told that a lot of the head gasket issues were caused by the positioning of the thermostat. The way it opens means that a gush of cold water hits the cyl head where it shouldn't. The cure was to drill a very small hole in the stat - this does mean slower warming up in winter but it lessens the effect by having warmer coolant in the rad - apparently.
I'm sure some know far more than I do about it!
I'm sure some know far more than I do about it!
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