Rovers - were they really that bad?

[Fun Bus]

I sold Rovers for main dealers for about 5 years. I made some good money, sold a lot of cars.

When the 75 was announced, both 600 and 800 models were very heavily discounted in order to clear remaining stock. Dealers couldn't get enough of them, so much so, Rover brought cars back from Japan, converted back to UK spec and sent out to the dealers. I was working for a dealer in Nottingham but enquiries and orders came from all over the UK because people were keen to get the right spec that their local dealer may not have had.

When the 75 arrived I remember quoting 6-month lead times on factory orders. I was selling them new without discount. Ex-demos were reserved ready for when the dealer could sell them. They sold themselves.

Great days.

[davepoth]

Fun Bus said:

I sold Rovers for main dealers for about 5 years. I made some good money, sold a lot of cars.

When the 75 was announced, both 600 and 800 models were very heavily discounted in order to clear remaining stock. Dealers couldn't get enough of them, so much so, Rover brought cars back from Japan, converted back to UK spec and sent out to the dealers. I was working for a dealer in Nottingham but enquiries and orders came from all over the UK because people were keen to get the right spec that their local dealer may not have had.

When the 75 arrived I remember quoting 6-month lead times on factory orders. I was selling them new without discount. Ex-demos were reserved ready for when the dealer could sell them. They sold themselves.

Great days.

Yup. It's not a sporty car, but then who really needs sporty when they're stuck in a traffic jam? If Rover had had something as good as the R75 to replace the 200/400 they might well have been a going concern.

[williamp]

I remember the old series of Top gear from the (late 90s?) where they reviewed the MG and Rover models in response to the press comments about "fields full of unsold cars" etc etc and they thought that they were good cars, with the odd exception Cityrover, etc). But hey, every car had bad eggs: Ford Fusion, BMW compact, original merc A-class

[Fun Bus]

davepoth said:

Yup. It's not a sporty car, but then who really needs sporty when they're stuck in a traffic jam? If Rover had had something as good as the R75 to replace the 200/400 they might well have been a going concern.

The replacement for the 200 became the BMW 1-series. The BMW Mini was originally to be a Rover product - I was lined up to be chief geek for the brand for the dealer I was with.

[daemon]

Great cars.

I started my working life selling them in 1988 and 1989.

I've had a world of them as my own cars -

Rover 220 GTI Turbo
Rover 620Ti Turbo
MG Metro
MG Maestro 2.0i
Rover 216 GTI
Rover 220 Coupe
Various Austin Metros
Various Rover Metros
Various Rover 200's
Various Rover 400's
MGTF

All had their merits.

I would still fancy a 2.5 v6 MG just to keep. Keeping an eye out for a cheap one...

[Fun Bus]

I'd still like a 420GSi Turbo - fast and rare.

[IrnBruFreak]

Fun Bus said:

The replacement for the 200 became the BMW 1-series. The BMW Mini was originally to be a Rover product - I was lined up to be chief geek for the brand for the dealer I was with.

I wonder what the BM 1 series would have looked like as a rover?

How much of what if a 1 series now would have been the rover?

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

I got a brand new Rover 214Si as a company car - after the Vauxhall's I was used to, the Rover was a lot nicer and felt better made. I remember the column stalk stitch gear feeling really well engineered. For a 1.4 is was quite nippy too.

[Baryonyx]

davepoth said:

Sadly BAe decided to sell to BMW, who I believe were always hell-bent on asset stripping the company (Land Rover and Mini) with the added bonus of removing what could have been a competitor in the near future.

Indeed, all they wanted was to sell more of their own st cars, hence taking out what was at one time a worthy competitor.

[mph]

londonbabe said:

Define 'Rover'
The real Rovers ended with the SD1 and were fantastic, well engineered modern, forward looking cars. The SD1 in particular was let down by its terrible build quality, but a good one can be fantastic. My 2300 was lovely.

Exactly right.

Younger readers will find it hard to believe that Rovers were once a byword for high quality luxury cars. They were an innovative company too.

They produced the Land rover, the Range rover, gas turbine cars and technically interesting saloon cars of charm and quality.

Once they were merged with Leyland, mismanagement on an epic scale started the rot.

[MH82]

Driven a few Rovers from the 80s and 90s so I feel qualified to comment. Rover may well have aimed to be a cut above Ford and Vauxhall but they ultimately fell short. Exterior quality wasn't that great with variable shutlines and in the case of Maestro and Montego rust. The interiors although on the surface seem to be better quality than that of Ford and Vauxhall of the era they simply weren't as robust and fell apart quickly with lots of squeaks and rattles.

The K series engine was good and better than the competition for performance but the rest of the running gear felt cheap and wasn't all that reliable. Countless times of towing friends with Rovers and a step brother who bought 2 Maestros which broke down, with me having to fix.

The Maestro felt like a car from the previous decade with the driving position in the MG being very odd. Inside space was huge I'll give it that, but everything was so vague and the switch gear was identical to the Sherpa van - I can still remember those horrible buttons and the stalks that lost their spring!

If Rover has released each of their cars a decade before their actual launch date then they would still be here. The MG ZR IMO is the best of a bad bunch.

As for BMW wanting to remove the competition - I don't think BMW had anything to worry about, not even on the horizon

Edited by MH82 on Friday 31st January 15:27

[GrumpyV8]

daemon said:

Great cars.

I started my working life selling them in 1988 and 1989.

I've had a world of them as my own cars -

Rover 220 GTI Turbo
Rover 620Ti Turbo
MG Metro
MG Maestro 2.0i
Rover 216 GTI
Rover 220 Coupe
Various Austin Metros
Various Rover Metros
Various Rover 200's
Various Rover 400's
MGTF

All had their merits.

I would still fancy a 2.5 v6 MG just to keep. Keeping an eye out for a cheap one...

My brother had a MG Maestro Turbo in the mid 1980's. Looked the part in dark metallic green with flared wheel arches and alloys. An utterly, utterly bonkers performance car capable of insane speeds (rumours of in excess of 135 mph on Norfolk roads). I think he traded it in within the year because of fuel and tyre costs!

[valiant]

My first 'decent' car was a K-reg 416gsi. I was in my twenties and although it was a proper granddad's car, it was absolutely brilliant! It was in perfect condition and my first car with 'wood'!

I knew it was basically a Honda underneath but to me that was a good thing!

Sadly, it was stolen from my workplace about a year after buying it and to say I was gutted would be an understatement.

Replaced it with..... An L-reg 416gsi (this time in blue). Again a decent enough car and although it never broke down, it just didn't seem as well screwed together as my previous Rover and with service intervals of 6000 miles and me doing 18000 miles p.a. meant it had to go for an eco-box

Edited by valiant on Saturday 7th December 21:40

[PlayersNo6]

After my dad's Capri got nicked in Edinburgh he had a brand new, solid red 216SE long term hire car (on a B plate IIRC). We both thought it was a lovely car, but my mother said it was an 'old man's car' - beige velour, wood inserts, memories of the P6 etc.

When he actually came to buy he got a 2.0GL Sierra, also discounting the (rare at the time) Audi 80 - in favour of the Sierra.

[KTF]

IrnBruFreak said:

Fun Bus said:

The replacement for the 200 became the BMW 1-series. The BMW Mini was originally to be a Rover product - I was lined up to be chief geek for the brand for the dealer I was with.

I wonder what the BM 1 series would have looked like as a rover?

How much of what if a 1 series now would have been the rover?

Something a bit like this is you believe this thread:

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=381730

[Exige77]

You have to judge a Marque by what it's competitors are producing.

I am sure many remember Rover with fond memories but the truth is they produced a poor product which ultimately led to their downfall.

Many of their fondly remembered products have gone on to be re-engineered by new owners and become a success story.

People ultimately vote with their wallet.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

white_goodman said:

I never read much about Rovers on PH, which suggests that either no-one owns them or they're not very good. The collapse of the company would tend to support this but were they really that bad?

I've never actually owned an MG or Rover but most of my experiences with them have been positive.

My uncle owned a series of Metros, Maestros and Montegos in the late 80s/early 90s. I remember the MG Metro he had was pretty nice and the Montego estates were quite a classy carriage in their day. I don't remember him having many problems with any of them and I always remember preferring the Montegos to my dad's POS Renault 21 that always had problems. My friend's dad also had a grey 1989 820 Saloon that I envied at the time.

I also remember the Rover 200 and Rover Metro being very highly rated for the driving experience and quality when they were launched in the early 90s.

During 6th form, me and my best friend aspired to owning a classy Rover 400 or 600 rather than the racy Fords and Vauxhalls that our classmates aspired to own.

So what went wrong? I sold new MGs and Rovers towards the end in 2003/2004 and the cars were actually really good value, nice to drive and economical (I'll conveniently forget the CityRover). It was also good that you could get an MG saloon that looked quite racy but with a more wallet-friendly engine. When MG Rover facelifted all the models, they invited us to a race track to test them and even the most mundane cars (Rover 45 diesel) presented themselves very well.

There were some issues though. I think Rover still saw themselves as a cut above Ford and Vauxhall and as a result didn't really compete head to head with them i.e. the 25 was bigger than the Fiesta/Corsa but not as big as the Escort/Astra, likewise the 45 and whereas the 75/ZT was a much nicer car than the Mondeo/Vectra IMHO, it wasn't really a 5-Series/E-Class competitor. In fact, I would still secretly like to own a 75 diesel or a ZT V6 one day, I just never really felt mature enough to drive one!

Other issues were:
1) Limited and dated model range i.e. no 4x4s, no competitive city car or no small estate (I guess at one time Land Rover had the 4x4 thing covered);
2) Patchy build quality - nothing major but things like poorly fitting trim, inoperative steering wheel-mounted audio controls and digital clocks;
3) Poor reputation of the K-Series engine (worse in certain applications MGF/TF), not sure how prolific HG failures were compared to the number of cars actually out there;
4) A slightly fuddy duddy image.

So, does anyone have any good experiences of MG and Rover cars or were they as terrible as their reputation suggests?

I loved my 214SEi, but it was one in a million, I've looked at loads since and they were all st.

Inconsistent build quality was the start of their downfall, rebadging tata's and failing to come up with a good looking range killed them.

MG went long ago, swallowed up by BL and destroyed by the same inconsistent and poor build quality (cars sitting rusting for weeks while workers strike & poor re-designing to keep up with changing standards)

Could have been a major player today if it had moved with the times and had a workforce less intent on fighting the government and management IMO!

[pimping]

My first car was a thrashed rover metro. K reg and treated with love and speed the only way a 17 year old can. Who ever got that in the end from me part ex it got a mobile DNA sperm bank. It has enough juices to feature in a CSI show. Delicious.

Oh and the head gasket went as well as my own.

Old man had a 75 which felt like an armchair in a gentleman's club.

Recently I got rid if my 99 rocker 420 from 1999. It was a fine chariot though my new stter shows that the rover drank heavy around town. It was nippy but definitely old school though I like that. Eventually a not failure killed it and if I am honest unless it was on the motorway the t series engine was thirsty for no reason. I liked the old mans chairs and fake wood and crappy nostalgic rover radio. I miss it actually but it was its time to due.

[Steffan]

There were some very innovative cars produced by Rover. Unfortunately throughout the growth of the BL/Triumph/Austin/Rover/Jaguar/etc monolith, quality control was never a good feature or indeed a serious matter of concern at what became Rover. In consequence brilliant designs like the Mini were still being produced by Rover almost 50 years after their introduction with exactly the same appalling lack of basic rustproofing as the original had at its inception. Buying a Rover therefore it a tricky and risky enterprise. Examine the car very carefully. I wish you well: there are good cars about but there also an awful lot of rust buckets.

[stevesuk]

Fox- said:

Faster than a BMW 316i? Most things are.

Yes, was going to make a comparison with continental drift. Whenever you see an E46 for sale with a very low mileage, it always tends to be a 316i, which says all you need to know about them as the "ultimate driving machine"

I had a 1997 Rover 216 SLi for a few years at around the turn of the millennium. At the time, I chose it because if you had a family member who had once worked for any company that had once some kind of relationship with Rover (British Aerospace in my case), you could get an "employee discount" on ex-management nearly new used cars. I was a fair bit younger than I am now, and I was also swayed by the fact it was one of the most powerful cars you could get for a reasonable insurance grouping at the time.

It drove OK, was fairly economical, and the engine had a fair amount of punch when you revved it (would also happily cruise somewhat north of the speed limit on the motorway, without fuss and without much in the way of noise, even with 4 adults on-board). In addition to an already fairly generous spec for a smallish 1990s hatchback, mine also had a nice cream leather interior. So it was a reasonable thing to drive/own.

But it started rusting shortly after its 3rd birthday. Mechanical and electrical problems started to creep it, and the local dealer wasn't very good. So in the end, I traded it in for a new Megane II - which was a whole lot worse in most ways

As others have said, back in the 90s, the contemporary competition (Astras and Escorts) really was no better. The problem was that the competition improved a lot (eg. the Ford Focus), and Rover - whether strangled by BMW or not - had to rely on face-lifting the 200 and 400 instead. But I don't think they were inherently awful cars. As with most cars, you can be lucky or unlucky when it comes to reliability.

Now I have an E46 BMW, and that is rusting just like the Rover did (all be it in different places). But at least its made it to 11 years :-)