RE: DiCaprio's Formula E team

[zeppelin101]

Technomatt said:

EV sales are well below expectations

The Tesla Model S is outselling all of it's competitors in California.

[chrisw666]

Technomatt said:

You may be surprised to learn that the average age of cars in Europe is about 8 years old and the USA about 11 years old. In developing nations, a much older average.

An 8 year battery life kiss of death for an EV. The dismal residuals are there for a reason.

Have you ever pondered how much nicer life will be if you change your name to technophobe?

[Technomatt]

zeppelin101 said:

Technomatt said:

EV sales are well below expectations

The Tesla Model S is outselling all of it's competitors in California.

Such a narrow sample.

[Technomatt]

chrisw666 said:

Technomatt said:

You may be surprised to learn that the average age of cars in Europe is about 8 years old and the USA about 11 years old. In developing nations, a much older average.

An 8 year battery life kiss of death for an EV. The dismal residuals are there for a reason.

Have you ever pondered how much nicer life will be if you change your name to technophobe?

Have you ever pondered about only embracing technology that is efficient, flexible, empowers lifestyles and is cost effective? EVs fail on all counts.

[EskimoArapaho]

So much posturing on this thread! Imagine my surprise.

If the racing spectacle is good, I don't care what powers the cars.

[Dion20vt]

It'll be like a massive scalextric set!!

London sounds interesting... Just hope they waterproof these car well!!

[chrisw666]

Technomatt said:

Have you ever pondered about only embracing technology that is efficient, flexible, empowers lifestyles and is cost effective? EVs fail on all counts.

You know when stuff is first created but isn't very good? That's EVs, the only way they'll get better is if people use them. Were the first internal combustion cars anything like what we have today?

[RemarkLima]

Technomatt said:

RemarkLima said:

Technomatt said:

Just look at the latest EV, the BMW i3 with it’s built in £10,000 battery change cost at the 8 year point. EVs with that built in short life expectancy and yet the unquestioning techno converts still just lap it up.

I rarely see a car older than 8 years old these days... *shrug*

Edited by RemarkLima on Tuesday 10th December 10:32

You may be surprised to learn that the average age of cars in Europe is about 8 years old and the USA about 11 years old. In developing nations, a much older average.

An 8 year battery life kiss of death for an EV. The dismal residuals are there for a reason.

So, are you suggesting that BMW are trying to sell brand new, £30,000 cars (i3, 3 series, 1 series, et al) to people who own 10 year old cars? Or perhaps, maybe, they're trying to sell £30,000 cars of all types to people who want (and can afford in whatever sense) new cars?

And they're trying to sell them to people in developing nations too!?!? Do we need a new well? Or a 7 series? Hmmm, tough choice...

[Technomatt]

RemarkLima said:

Technomatt said:

RemarkLima said:

Technomatt said:

Just look at the latest EV, the BMW i3 with it’s built in £10,000 battery change cost at the 8 year point. EVs with that built in short life expectancy and yet the unquestioning techno converts still just lap it up.

I rarely see a car older than 8 years old these days... *shrug*

Edited by RemarkLima on Tuesday 10th December 10:32

You may be surprised to learn that the average age of cars in Europe is about 8 years old and the USA about 11 years old. In developing nations, a much older average.

An 8 year battery life kiss of death for an EV. The dismal residuals are there for a reason.

So, are you suggesting that BMW are trying to sell brand new, £30,000 cars (i3, 3 series, 1 series, et al) to people who own 10 year old cars? Or perhaps, maybe, they're trying to sell £30,000 cars of all types to people who want (and can afford in whatever sense) new cars?

And they're trying to sell them to people in developing nations too!?!? Do we need a new well? Or a 7 series? Hmmm, tough choice...

Think longer term and depreciation. People still buy or run 8+ year old cars.

The same issue applies to all EV manufacturers. The ticking battery time bomb.

[bga]

Technomatt said:

Think longer term and depreciation. People still buy or run 8+ year old cars.

The same issue applies to all EV manufacturers. The ticking battery time bomb.

Which is why investment (like racing) in the technology is not a bad thing.

[Technomatt]

Dion20vt said:

It'll be like a massive scalextric set!!

London sounds interesting... Just hope they waterproof these car well!!

Back on a racing topic...... I'd like to see this 'London Circuit', where it is and the infrastructure required to meet FIA and public safety standards. Is it Brands Hatch?

[smartie93]

Dion20vt said:

It'll be like a massive scalextric set!!

London sounds interesting... Just hope they waterproof these car well!!

ahh i used to put water on my scalextric track to replicate a water splash for my RS200, it never died (and surprisingly i didn't either) so i think these EVs will be okay with a bit of rain :P

As for the whole ICE til I die thing, I hope Electric vehicle tech comes on leaps and bounds in the next few years so they (maybe as petrol hybrids?) can replace heavy, smelly, rattly, carcinogenic and smog producing diesels

[SuperVM]

RemarkLima said:

SuperVM said:

Perhaps I should look at the regulations before asking the following, but I'm going to ask anyway.

Are the tyres made from recycled nappies?
Is the bodywork constructed from old cardboard?
Are the electronics taken from my children's unwanted toys (anything they've had more than two hours)?
Do the cars and teams move to each circuit by being carried on the backs of hordes of fairies?

No, obviously not... It is supposed to be a R&D platform that will bring cleaner tech into the public consciousness. Also the concept that competition breeds better ideas will hopefully help the tech along as well, in an environment that doesn't have Type Approval regulations.

As you have children, when walking along with them would you a) have them breathing fumes from exhausts b) not breathing fumes from exhausts?

Yes, I know the power has to come from somewhere, but when you can centralise a problem, it'll be easier to manage.

I understand it is really a marketing exercise to improve the image of electric vehicles, as well as perhaps to provide some R&D opportunities. However, I find the idea of running a racing series at vast environmental cost in order to promote these ideas at least a little ironic. As I do the idea of a hollywood star who doubtless travels all over the place in jets being an environmental advocate. Perhaps he takes care to ensure his travels are offset by the planting of trees, etc. and I'm just being miserable.

My points weren't regarding the suitability of electric vehicles, etc. but about the way in which they are attempting to put them into the public's minds.

[Rich A]

(Unsurprisingly) they sound like giant electric RC cars - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gdqiMw3TAw

Will reserve judgement on Formula E until I see the racing. Fair play to Leonardo putting his money into motorsport though.

[A Scotsman]

I do wonder as to how long Formula E will actually last. Currently (no pun intended) I really can't see it going beyond more than one season because there's simply nothing that's attractive about it.

What might be fun then would be to convert them into remotely operated vehicles and sell the opportunity to race them over the internet to the highest bidder

[smifffymoto]

I'm excited by the tech,nothing has changed that much in normal racing apart from more restrictive regs.

[ukaskew]

Cal me a cynical old fella, but even F1 can't attract the funding to put a race on at a semi-industrial area opposite Manhattan, but we're expected to believe that in a years time these guys will be racing around various cities (including London)?

[TheInternet]

Notverytechnomatt said:

Just look at the latest EV, the BMW i3 with it’s built in £10,000 battery change cost at the 8 year point.

'The BMW Group has planned and developed this battery to last for the full life of the vehicle and the battery warranty is valid for eight years or 100,000 miles. However, in the case of maintenance to the battery being required, it is also possible to replace individual modules in the event of a fault.'

[Engineer1]

chrisw666 said:

Technomatt said:

Have you ever pondered about only embracing technology that is efficient, flexible, empowers lifestyles and is cost effective? EVs fail on all counts.

You know when stuff is first created but isn't very good? That's EVs, the only way they'll get better is if people use them. Were the first internal combustion cars anything like what we have today?

No they wheren't and it is only a few decades since ICE cars became really reliable. Evs have a place but as part of a porfolio, that possibly includes the use of hired ICE cars for long journeys

[Technomatt]

bga said:

Technomatt said:

Think longer term and depreciation. People still buy or run 8+ year old cars.

The same issue applies to all EV manufacturers. The ticking battery time bomb.

Which is why investment (like racing) in the technology is not a bad thing.

The EV is already severely limited by the battery. This isn’t going to change in the near term and investment (ie sponsorship) in a bit of racing isn’t going to alter that.

The sooner people realise there will be no significant advances in battery development (Li-ion) in the next 10+ years, the more the EV debate will move on from the usual raft of dreaming ideologists to a much more pragmatic viewpoint.