RE: Smart Roadster: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Dave200 said:
You're right. There were definitely no other two-seater RWD roadsters available at the time. Definitely not.
Simplistic (but I expect no less from you...) so I'll spell it out for you in words of as few syllables as I can manage...The MX5 was hailed as a successor to the Elan but is more akin to the MGB Roadster (complete with leaks). The Elan was more focused than the MX5 ever was.
The Elise is in its own segment previously occupied by the Europa - a very focused mid engined lightweight track car for the road. Subsequent Lotus creations have followed that route further.
The Smart Roadster is a micro sports car in the same mould as the MG Midget, Sprite and Triumph Spitfire of earlier years or more recently the Suzuki Cappuccino. Made to be very small, economical, nimble but not blisteringly quick. Its also more practical than any of the other cars having (in coupe guise) enough room for two 6ft adults and three moderate sized suitcases (more than any of the preceding cars in its class could ever manage).
A great many of the motoring press view it as a modern classic.
Was it a game changer? No. But then neither was the Elise or the MX5. All of them were done previously and are just a modern take on their predecessors.
So at the time what other practical, open topped mid engined micro-sports car was there on the market with sequential six speed transmission, enough creature comforts to make it usable every day and economical enough not to break the bank every time you took it out? Like I said. Unique.
I can accept you don't like it but I can't understand why you feel the need to denigrate it (oops big word there - means slag it off) when it so clearly fits the needs and desires of so many owners on here. In my view the original article was pretty much spot on in its comments.
Out of curiosity what super high performance mid engined road going track day car do you drive anyway? On second thoughts don't answer. I really don't care.
I loved mine and wrote about it in evo for a couple of years. But I bought it for a very specific purpose, the same one I bought the preceding Cappuccino for: making the boring commute into central London bearable.
Mine never leaked and I soon adapted to the slow witted gearbox and steering. It was never particularly entertaining to drive on the open road, but had unfeasible amounts of grip. Would definitely make a great project car, as the Z Cars Gixxer-engined version I drove in a group test confirmed. Definitely not wrong, Dan.
Mine never leaked and I soon adapted to the slow witted gearbox and steering. It was never particularly entertaining to drive on the open road, but had unfeasible amounts of grip. Would definitely make a great project car, as the Z Cars Gixxer-engined version I drove in a group test confirmed. Definitely not wrong, Dan.
lostkiwi said:
Simplistic (but I expect no less from you...) so I'll spell it out for you in words of as few syllables as I can manage...
The MX5 was hailed as a successor to the Elan but is more akin to the MGB Roadster (complete with leaks). The Elan was more focused than the MX5 ever was.
The Elise is in its own segment previously occupied by the Europa - a very focused mid engined lightweight track car for the road. Subsequent Lotus creations have followed that route further.
The Smart Roadster is a micro sports car in the same mould as the MG Midget, Sprite and Triumph Spitfire of earlier years or more recently the Suzuki Cappuccino. Made to be very small, economical, nimble but not blisteringly quick. Its also more practical than any of the other cars having (in coupe guise) enough room for two 6ft adults and three moderate sized suitcases (more than any of the preceding cars in its class could ever manage).
A great many of the motoring press view it as a modern classic.
Was it a game changer? No. But then neither was the Elise or the MX5. All of them were done previously and are just a modern take on their predecessors.
So at the time what other practical, open topped mid engined micro-sports car was there on the market with sequential six speed transmission, enough creature comforts to make it usable every day and economical enough not to break the bank every time you took it out? Like I said. Unique.
I can accept you don't like it but I can't understand why you feel the need to denigrate it (oops big word there - means slag it off) when it so clearly fits the needs and desires of so many owners on here. In my view the original article was pretty much spot on in its comments.
Out of curiosity what super high performance mid engined road going track day car do you drive anyway? On second thoughts don't answer. I really don't care.
Jesus. Are you such a squealing primadonna in real life, or do you just reserve it for the internet...?The MX5 was hailed as a successor to the Elan but is more akin to the MGB Roadster (complete with leaks). The Elan was more focused than the MX5 ever was.
The Elise is in its own segment previously occupied by the Europa - a very focused mid engined lightweight track car for the road. Subsequent Lotus creations have followed that route further.
The Smart Roadster is a micro sports car in the same mould as the MG Midget, Sprite and Triumph Spitfire of earlier years or more recently the Suzuki Cappuccino. Made to be very small, economical, nimble but not blisteringly quick. Its also more practical than any of the other cars having (in coupe guise) enough room for two 6ft adults and three moderate sized suitcases (more than any of the preceding cars in its class could ever manage).
A great many of the motoring press view it as a modern classic.
Was it a game changer? No. But then neither was the Elise or the MX5. All of them were done previously and are just a modern take on their predecessors.
So at the time what other practical, open topped mid engined micro-sports car was there on the market with sequential six speed transmission, enough creature comforts to make it usable every day and economical enough not to break the bank every time you took it out? Like I said. Unique.
I can accept you don't like it but I can't understand why you feel the need to denigrate it (oops big word there - means slag it off) when it so clearly fits the needs and desires of so many owners on here. In my view the original article was pretty much spot on in its comments.
Out of curiosity what super high performance mid engined road going track day car do you drive anyway? On second thoughts don't answer. I really don't care.
Before quoting dictionary definitions to me, go back and think about your use of the word "compare". Then write out 200 times, "I won't pretend to be superior, when my own command of English is so poor".
Dave200 said:
Jesus. Are you such a squealing primadonna in real life, or do you just reserve it for the internet...?
Before quoting dictionary definitions to me, go back and think about your use of the word "compare". Then write out 200 times, "I won't pretend to be superior, when my own command of English is so poor".
Or you could just address the points he makes, if you're able to.Before quoting dictionary definitions to me, go back and think about your use of the word "compare". Then write out 200 times, "I won't pretend to be superior, when my own command of English is so poor".
Seems all the cars I have owned are on PH this week - MR2, MX5 now the Smart Roadster.
I had an early coupe, without the automatic roof for about 2 years in 2005/6: you had to remove the roof manually in two parts and store it in the rear 'boot', which was then in kept place by some polystyrene holders - not exactly elegant, but fine really.
I loved some of the car, but not all (no surprises).
What I liked was the handling and the character and looks of the thing. It made a lovely noise! That it did 40+ MPG and cost next to nothing to tax was a bonus. It never felt too slow despite only 80BHP.
Downsides, well initially that gearbox. BUT It was vastly improved by adding the paddle shift steering wheel upgrade (it started out with just a push pull gearstick option) and then, as was said in the post, using left foot braking so you could still match the revs on down changes. Actually it became a fun challenge to get it right.
The steering was unforgivable though, so slow and twirly - not much else I can add here.
Most of the time it felt like owning a prototype. Mine leaked water in through the door mirror area like crazy. MB/SMART were very unwilling to fix it, even under warranty - disappointed. The fuel gauge stopped working and they fixed that but in the process managed to damage the car and for a week it smelt of fuel - again total lack of interest to sort it.
When I had the upgrade steering wheel fitted, it took them a whole day to do it and complained the whole time - not quite the 'off-the-shelf' - 'while you wait' promise of the brochure and, initially, of the dealer!
Mine also had an incredibly long brake pedal travel - somewhat offset when I started left foot braking to help downshifts (guess that foot was used to clutch pedals).
It also had 'firmware' problems. If you didn't turn on, and then off, and then on again the ignition every time you started it, it had really horrid CLONK from the gearbox when pulling away from a stop - goodness knows how I found the workaround for this.
Despite my acceptance of the gear change, the last straw for mine was when I drove it up Prescott Hillclimb Circuit on a Driver's School - that tight twisty and uphill course (where you really need to go from 4th to 1st gear at one point) confused the gearbox so much I began to yearn for a 'normal' sportscar.
A few more problems (severe wheel corrosion, key failure, more leaks, aircon issues) over the following months and I finally sold out.
Overall - perhaps I got a bad one? It could have been so great.
I had an early coupe, without the automatic roof for about 2 years in 2005/6: you had to remove the roof manually in two parts and store it in the rear 'boot', which was then in kept place by some polystyrene holders - not exactly elegant, but fine really.
I loved some of the car, but not all (no surprises).
What I liked was the handling and the character and looks of the thing. It made a lovely noise! That it did 40+ MPG and cost next to nothing to tax was a bonus. It never felt too slow despite only 80BHP.
Downsides, well initially that gearbox. BUT It was vastly improved by adding the paddle shift steering wheel upgrade (it started out with just a push pull gearstick option) and then, as was said in the post, using left foot braking so you could still match the revs on down changes. Actually it became a fun challenge to get it right.
The steering was unforgivable though, so slow and twirly - not much else I can add here.
Most of the time it felt like owning a prototype. Mine leaked water in through the door mirror area like crazy. MB/SMART were very unwilling to fix it, even under warranty - disappointed. The fuel gauge stopped working and they fixed that but in the process managed to damage the car and for a week it smelt of fuel - again total lack of interest to sort it.
When I had the upgrade steering wheel fitted, it took them a whole day to do it and complained the whole time - not quite the 'off-the-shelf' - 'while you wait' promise of the brochure and, initially, of the dealer!
Mine also had an incredibly long brake pedal travel - somewhat offset when I started left foot braking to help downshifts (guess that foot was used to clutch pedals).
It also had 'firmware' problems. If you didn't turn on, and then off, and then on again the ignition every time you started it, it had really horrid CLONK from the gearbox when pulling away from a stop - goodness knows how I found the workaround for this.
Despite my acceptance of the gear change, the last straw for mine was when I drove it up Prescott Hillclimb Circuit on a Driver's School - that tight twisty and uphill course (where you really need to go from 4th to 1st gear at one point) confused the gearbox so much I began to yearn for a 'normal' sportscar.
A few more problems (severe wheel corrosion, key failure, more leaks, aircon issues) over the following months and I finally sold out.
Overall - perhaps I got a bad one? It could have been so great.
heebeegeetee said:
Dave200 said:
Jesus. Are you such a squealing primadonna in real life, or do you just reserve it for the internet...?
Before quoting dictionary definitions to me, go back and think about your use of the word "compare". Then write out 200 times, "I won't pretend to be superior, when my own command of English is so poor".
Or you could just address the points he makes, if you're able to.Before quoting dictionary definitions to me, go back and think about your use of the word "compare". Then write out 200 times, "I won't pretend to be superior, when my own command of English is so poor".
This looks like an interesting engine swap in a ForTwo, using a Toyota 3SGE and wisely retaining the Smart De-dion suspension, though it's required some pretty substantial mods to the body. The only real negative is that engine is a pretty heavy lump which may not be great for handling, but it's certainly not a small engine so if that can be made to fit then there are surely potential options for the Roadster.
I got my roadster from new in 2003 when they first came out and sold it this year after 10 years ownership. It was an early UK market lefty without the power steering or even the radio on the later RHD cars.
What I loved about it was the character of the car. It just had so much personality and I, personally, loved the styling. It was also very modifiable and this was what made the ownership of the car even more fun.
It was tuned to over 112bhp and I had an Italian racing clutch fitted. This along with better induction made the paddle shift gear changes much better. It was tyre sensitive and I think the stickier Toyos went a long way to improving things. The KW adjustable suspension made it corner like it was on rails. The sports exhaust made it sound fantastic. It could now outdrag a Golf GTi. The steering could have had a tighter rack but it wasn't that bad and certainly had good feedback.
These cars have to be viewed a little differently as there was no real competitor at the time and hasn't really been one since. It was a car designed to be a spiritual successor to a frog eye sprite. Perhaps the Gordon Murray car that Yamaha will build soon will have a sport derivative that may be in some way similar to the roadster.
In my eyes it was a little gem of a car and, like all genius, was flawed in some areas. Mine was made tolerable because it was completely reliable and didn't leak.
I now own a Toyota GT86 but I miss that car more than anything. The 86 is nice and light and drives beautifully but the roadster was an event when you took it out. It was like a fairground ride and you felt alive. It was the seat of the pants feeling you got that put a smile on your face. I so regret losing that car.
What I loved about it was the character of the car. It just had so much personality and I, personally, loved the styling. It was also very modifiable and this was what made the ownership of the car even more fun.
It was tuned to over 112bhp and I had an Italian racing clutch fitted. This along with better induction made the paddle shift gear changes much better. It was tyre sensitive and I think the stickier Toyos went a long way to improving things. The KW adjustable suspension made it corner like it was on rails. The sports exhaust made it sound fantastic. It could now outdrag a Golf GTi. The steering could have had a tighter rack but it wasn't that bad and certainly had good feedback.
These cars have to be viewed a little differently as there was no real competitor at the time and hasn't really been one since. It was a car designed to be a spiritual successor to a frog eye sprite. Perhaps the Gordon Murray car that Yamaha will build soon will have a sport derivative that may be in some way similar to the roadster.
In my eyes it was a little gem of a car and, like all genius, was flawed in some areas. Mine was made tolerable because it was completely reliable and didn't leak.
I now own a Toyota GT86 but I miss that car more than anything. The 86 is nice and light and drives beautifully but the roadster was an event when you took it out. It was like a fairground ride and you felt alive. It was the seat of the pants feeling you got that put a smile on your face. I so regret losing that car.
shandyboy said:
Skinley said:
300bhp/ton said:
If there is a better more livable every day sports car I don't know of it.
1970 455ci trans am?
I saw my first one of these things, out here in the Ozzy country, just the other day.
I really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
I really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
My Smart Roadster is the car I miss most. This is despite major leaks (carpet & roof replaced), paint issues (lacquer fell off when dealer washed it after fixing roof!), crash (R-plate driver hit passenger rear), latent electrical meltdown (water damaged board resulting in Johnny 5-esque attempt to be alive), rubbish gearbox, lack of pace. It was simple fun, rare and IMO looked interesting and good from some angles. If I could pick up a Brabus Roadster coupe and keep it in storage I would.
Hasbeen said:
I saw my first one of these things, out here in the Ozzy country, just the other day.
I really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
I really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
Er... It's tough enough to win a rally to Athens:>>
A 2003 smart roadster is certain to go down in history after slaying the opposition on the London to Athens Endurance Rally!
Driven by Al Young, Chairman of The smart Club, the giant-killing roadster conquered the might of Porsche, Lotus and Jaguar to take an outright victory and both class and team wins on the event, which is open to the vast majority of new and classic two-seater sports cars and was staged by the Guild of Motor Endurance earlier this month.
Over eight days the roadster blasted its way across a punishing route that spanned dirt tracks in Romania to spectacular mountain passes in the Southern Carpathians, literally ‘outsmarting’ the competition and surprising all with its fearless ability to tackle the toughest terrain.
Al and co-driver, Fiona, steered the roadster through nearly 4,000 competitive miles and nothing could slow its dominance, including air temperatures of 35 Celsius, Bulgarian potholes so big that they bent the steering rack, and even sliding backwards into a ditch.
The smart’s gutsy performance was even more remarkable considering that its rally-winning running gear is quite unremarkable! Aside from a roll-cage and beefed-up suspension and front brakes, its drivetrain is near standard – the basic engine, gearbox, wheel bearings, transmission and internals remain original smart. <<
http://europeanmotornews.com/2012/09/26/smart-road...
http://www.petrolnews.co.uk/news/801458657/Smart%2...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Smart-Rally-Roadste...
http://www.thesmartclub.co.uk/motorsport/roadster/...
Edited by heebeegeetee on Saturday 28th December 19:19
Hasbeen said:
I saw my first one of these things, out here in the Ozzy country, just the other day.
I really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
I'm sure you're a great bloke, but that makes you sound like a bit of a tI really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
t to be honest.Hasbeen said:
I saw my first one of these things, out here in the Ozzy country, just the other day.
I really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
Did someone laugh at a 'toy car'?I really frightened my lady when I burst out laughing at the sight.
The thought of someone being silly enough to bring one of those silly little things out here, 50Km from the nearest city was too much for me. We don't often see such toys out here in a mans world, but full marks that owner, giving us something to laugh about.
I hope it survived & got back to the city, where it is probably the darling of the chattering class
Laugh at this...Currently being re-mapped from 330bhp to 400bhp
Styling aside (each to their own), a smart roadster could have been so much more, they unfortunately engineered the driving pleasure out of it.
I always liked these, and I wish you could still buy them new.
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but does the Honda CR-Z come close at all to being the modern replacement? I know it's a bit bigger than the Smart was but I can't think of anything else you can buy new in the UK market that's as similar?
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but does the Honda CR-Z come close at all to being the modern replacement? I know it's a bit bigger than the Smart was but I can't think of anything else you can buy new in the UK market that's as similar?
half-9 said:
Did someone laugh at a 'toy car'?
Laugh at this...Currently being re-mapped from 330bhp to 400bhp
Styling aside (each to their own), a smart roadster could have been so much more, they unfortunately engineered the driving pleasure out of it.
Hi, do you have any more info on this car, please?Laugh at this...Currently being re-mapped from 330bhp to 400bhp
Styling aside (each to their own), a smart roadster could have been so much more, they unfortunately engineered the driving pleasure out of it.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff