RE: Smart Roadster: Tell Me I'm Wrong

[lostkiwi]

EnglishTony said:

Drove 1 for about 30 mins. Couldn't get out of the thing fast enough. Ghastly. Friend of mine was interested in 1. She bought a 2nd hand Z3 instead.

You probably drove it in auto? Auto mode is pretty poor but with paddles and driven manually they are pretty damned good and will keep with 'superior' cars far easier than you'd think.

[300bhp/ton]

AH33 said:

the 205? sorry but the roadster is WAY girlier.

Logically how do you come to this conclusion?

Lets examine the evidence.

Sports cars in general, and the Roadster specifically are:

-low down, so much more of a chore to get in and out of
-noisy and less refined
-potentially more drafty
-potentially more likely to leak
-a lay down driving position
-low seating position with a view out over the bonnet
-higher window line
-usually fairly basic spec
-more focused as a drivers car and if RWD sporting RWD tendencies
-Rear engine tendencies too in the case of the Roadster
-compromised interior space
-compromised luggage space


Which of these attribute make it more girly????


A hatchback by design:

-maximises interior space, to prioritise people carrying and hauling abilities
-thus making them ideal run abouts (e.g. supermarket run) or as family vehicles
-upright driving position
-easy to see out, short stubby bonnets for easy parking
-designed for easy alighting (getting in and out of)
-usually overly light controls (steering, clutch, throttle pedal)


Or maybe you can tell me what is more manly about a supermarket grade hatchback?

AH33 said:

Its the only car i've ever owned that strangers have laughed at. And i dont mind girly cars, i've had loads.

Well I've done 70,000 miles in mine over almost 6 years. It's sparked lots of interest and people have often asked about it, no one I've ever "met" has ever laughed at it though.


In that time, it's toured North and Mid Wales, Yorkshire, the Peaks, down to the South coast, it's been used for the daily commute, normal trundling about, including going to the shops, it's been taken on many army bases, it's been to car shows and even exhibited at some of them.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 13th April 12:48

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

Or maybe you can tell me what is more manly about a supermarket grade hatchback?

Questioning the provenance of a 205GTI is disingenuous. It's an icon.

[AH33]

Simply put, its tiny. Men of any size look too big for the car.

Im not having a go, i enjoyed mine when it worked and I didnt/dont care if people like or dislike my choice of car, but its clearly a tiny little car. Men also look ridiculous in a suzuki cappuccino, daihatsu copen or any other similar sized car.

[CampDavid]

Mr Tonn is doing a sterling job of reminding me why I don't have one.

[CampDavid]

The gearbox makes the car pointless. A decent engine and box would have made it a great car though it probably wouldn't have done that well. It'd have just been like the mk3 MR2 and not many people seem to have bothered with those.

[BugLebowski]

300bhp/ton said:

Yet you have a far more feminine, budget girly hatchback. That is more at home at the supermarket or on the school run. Or in poverty spec as an OAP mover in it's day. Didn't they even sell them in beige just for that purpose.

You sound like a man that's spent a long, long time defending his choice of car.

Edited by BugLebowski on Wednesday 13th April 14:08

[M1C]

CampDavid said:

The gearbox makes the car pointless. A decent engine and box would have made it a great car though it probably wouldn't have done that well. It'd have just been like the mk3 MR2 and not many people seem to have bothered with those.

We've got a Smart Roadster in the family and i use it now and again as it's so different to our 'normal' cars.

It is good fun, makes a great noise, is quicker than anyone would think and you get the proper 'low down, roof off' driving experience. It's also very good on fuel as others have mentioned. I'm 6ft 2" and i fit inside no problems whatsoever, yes i probably do look daft driving it but who cars, it's fun. Actually, getting in and our is the more daft looking part, once you're in..it's fine!

But....and there is a but...

The gearbox isn't good. I know 300bhp/ton fiercly defends it but it is just poor. Yes you can work around it and use it a different way which does help, it's just slow! I've probably been spoilt by using DSG boxes and things like that which are super quick and smooth.

I'm not having a go, you DO get used to it and it becomes less of an issue...but it's not true to say that it's not an issue....it's just an issue that becomes a bit easier to deal with if you modify your driving style, etc.

Had they made this car with a good, slick snickety manual gearbox, it would have been fantastic.

[irocfan]

SGirl said:

I'm going to keep mine forever. It's brilliant fun and inexpensive to run. What other people think of it doesn't matter.

which is the right attitude. In all honesty if I get the job I'm going for I may well get myself a RoadsterCoupe just to commute in. Why? I think that they look great, nippy enough for fun on the commute, great mpg. I'll grant you that the gear-box isn't the best but it still seems like a hoot

[heebeegeetee]

AH33 said:

Simply put, its tiny. Men of any size look too big for the car.

Im not having a go, i enjoyed mine when it worked and I didnt/dont care if people like or dislike my choice of car, but its clearly a tiny little car. Men also look ridiculous in a suzuki cappuccino, daihatsu copen or any other similar sized car.

Hmm. When parked side by side it was the same length as my pals '89 911, with a slightly longer wheelbase. It just doesn't have the enormous arse.

Gearbox? It's not a manual and it's not a dsg, but nevertheless the moment my fingertip moves a an edge of a paddle it changes gear.

More frustrating imo is the clutch take-up when trying to set off quickly.

As I vouched t'other weekend, its the same as a manual in the wet.

Edited by heebeegeetee on Wednesday 13th April 14:52

[Mr2Mike]

CampDavid said:

The gearbox makes the car pointless. A decent engine and box would have made it a great car though it probably wouldn't have done that well. It'd have just been like the mk3 MR2 and not many people seem to have bothered with those.

Simply not true. The gearbox does feel slow when you come from a manual, and it takes time to adjust to using it effectively but once you do it's not bad at all. It will never be as quick as a well executed change on a manual box, but provided the clutch is correctly set up and calibrated (many are not) it's perfectly useable. Full auto mode is dire however. The engine is also perfectly fine, it has plenty enough power to make it fun to drive and they don't tend to die prematurely like the ones in the ForTwo.

heebeegeetee said:

More frustrating imo is the clutch take-up when trying to set off quickly.

Yep, it is sluggish from a standing start. However both I and my wife have accidentally managed to make it pull off very quickly indeed, though neither of us knows quite how we did it. There is an alleged sports start mode that involves holding the ignition key in the start position, though we definitely didn't do that. It slightly panicked me when I did it as I was expecting the usual leisurely start.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Wednesday 13th April 15:22

[SGirl]

heebeegeetee said:

Hmm. When parked side by side it was the same length as my pals '89 911, with a slightly longer wheelbase. It just doesn't have the enormous arse.

It is a bit small, though I wouldn't say impossibly so. That said, mine looks tiny when it's parked next to my FFRR.

I had mine chipped and modded when I first bought it - the gearbox is still less than ideal, but it's more responsive as a result - and as others have said, you just work to its strengths. You can get around its little foibles by just changing your gearchange strategy a bit, it's not difficult.

I do find one downside to the Roadster, if I'm honest. Kids love it, which means I have to build in a bit more time for them to have a look at it if I'm going anywhere where there'll be a lot of kids around. I usually open the bonnet and tell them it's propelled by me running through holes in the floor, like Fred Flintstone.

[Mr2Mike]

M1C said:

The gearbox isn't good. I know 300bhp/ton fiercly defends it but it is just poor. Yes you can work around it and use it a different way which does help, it's just slow! I've probably been spoilt by using DSG boxes and things like that which are super quick and smooth.

I recommend you get the actuator preload set correctly (DIY job if you don't mind getting dirty) and get the clutch calibration performed. It made a significant difference to the gear change speed on my wife's car. There were also software updates to speed it up, but I think hers already has the latest.

[M1C]

Mr2Mike said:

I recommend you get the actuator preload set correctly (DIY job if you don't mind getting dirty) and get the clutch calibration performed. It made a significant difference to the gear change speed on my wife's car. There were also software updates to speed it up, but I think hers already has the latest.

I may look into that or at least mention it to the owner. It's a late model though, 2006 56 so it would have the latest software on there wouldnt it? Unless they have offered further updates after the model ceased?

[300bhp/ton]

yonex said:

Questioning the provenance of a 205GTI is disingenuous. It's an icon.

Yes it is an icon, no denying that. Not one I've ever lauded tbh and I don't really see the whole hot hatch attraction (never have).

And I'm more than happy to respect the little Pug. It was after all a car a certain Welsh lady did rather well in, competing in Grp A rallying.

But at the end of the day, it is a FWD hatch, primarily built for maximising interior space. There is nothing manyly in any hot hatches make-up (not that it matters, just the debate here). But I fail to see how a car which is generally more hardcore and more of a compromise can be considered girly, that's illogical or plain stupid rational.

[300bhp/ton]

AH33 said:

Simply put, its tiny. Men of any size look too big for the car.

Frankly that's a rather ludicrous view point. People come in all shape and sizes, women too. Maybe you should try looking around next time you are out.

AH33 said:

its clearly a tiny little car. Men also look ridiculous in a suzuki cappuccino, daihatsu copen or any other similar sized car.

Pretty much every classic British sports car would fall into this silly categorisation. I assume you think these are girly too:

MG Midget
Triumph Spitfire
MGB
MGC
Healey Spite (Frog eye)
Spridgets
Granturau
Caterham 21
Lotus 7....

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 13th April 16:12

[300bhp/ton]

CampDavid said:

The gearbox makes the car pointless. A decent engine and box would have made it a great car though it probably wouldn't have done that well. It'd have just been like the mk3 MR2 and not many people seem to have bothered with those.

Have you actually driven one?


I like the MR2, so I'm not going to bash it.

But I think the MR2 cost a fair bit more, maybe £10k more on a car only costing £15k in the first place. So not really a very good comparison.

The MR2 is also a bit fugly looking, not as economical and has no luggage space at all. Which makes it no more useful than a Caterham. The smart has loads of luggage room by comparison.


And the gearbox is completely fine. The same sort of box (in terms of how it works) was used by Ferrari, Lambo and Aston, i.e. automatically shifted manuals via an electronic clutch.

The supercars might have shifted quicker, but they where also a lot more jerky, a heck of a lot more money and usually quite prone to failure.

The Roadster shifts more than quick enough, is smoother and has never been a weak point in reliability terms.

[Mr2Mike]

300bhp/ton said:

Pretty much every classic British sports car would fall into this silly categorisation. I assume you think these are girly too:

MG Midget
Triumph Spitfire
MGB
MGC
Healey Spite (Frog eye)
Spridgets
Granturau
Caterham 21
Lotus 7....

Don't forget those 'girly' classic minis: the roadster is 40cm longer and 20cm wider, though it's also 15cm lower.

[TartanPaint]

My Roadster Coupe was £17,500. I don't think the MR2 roadster was £10k more than that...

[300bhp/ton]

M1C said:

But....and there is a but...

The gearbox isn't good. I know 300bhp/ton fiercly defends it but it is just poor. Yes you can work around it and use it a different way which does help, it's just slow! I've probably been spoilt by using DSG boxes and things like that which are super quick and smooth.

I'm not having a go, you DO get used to it and it becomes less of an issue...but it's not true to say that it's not an issue....it's just an issue that becomes a bit easier to deal with if you modify your driving style, etc.

Had they made this car with a good, slick snickety manual gearbox, it would have been fantastic.

Thing is, you can't really compare it to a DSG box, as those weren't really available at the time.

It would be like driving a Triumph TR4A and moaning because it hasn't got a 6 speed box and an ECU....

I'm sure modern DSG boxes are better. But the only time I ever found the Roadster's box even a semi issue is in traffic or busy town driving. For having a blast and rowing up and down the gears it does it perfectly.

And it's not about adjusting your driving style, it's about driving the vehicle you are in, rather than some generic style in the hope the vehicle will solve the mistakes you make.

e.g. if you try and downshift too late, then yes it will feel slow. But in all honesty, if you try and down shift too late in a manual car you'd end up in a right mess too. And probably end up flailing about the cabin trying to resolve it. In a Roadster there is nothing you can do but wait, but probably sorts it out quicker if you bothered to time it.


If you can't visualise this, image a straight into a hard right hand corner where you want to brake and down shift.

In a manual car, you've move off the throttle onto the brakes and reach for the gearstick. This is the time you should also reach for the gearstick in a Roadster.

Trouble is, it seems people don't, they wait and wait right to the point where they actually need the other gear, then they pull the lever/paddle. That is driver error, nothing more. If you waited and waited with a manual car, you'd still have to account for the time to change gear.


This mental attitude is no different from driving a FWD to a RWD car, a 4x4 from a hatchback, an auto from a manual. But for some reason it seems to confuse the f**k out of people when confronted with the Roadster.


As for a manual. Not so sure, next time you have a go, note how quickly you go through the gears. I think a regular H gate would be a bit too frantic arm waving and you'd spend the whole time steering with one hand only. Taller gearing and a manual might have worked better.

With the semi auto gear box, it's a really quick driver input to change gear, either with the paddles or the gear lever. You don't need to keep your hand off the steering wheel for the whole gearchange process, unlike a manual car. And I've certainly changed gear many times with the Roadster in places and situations I wouldn't with a manual as a result. And another perk is, when pressing on, you can keep your foot floored for each up change. Something that unless you are drag racing is impractical, risky and often damaging to do in a regular manual car.