RE: DAB RIP?

[TonyRPH]

GC8 said:

Only the 2a profile is MP3, but 128kbps of anything will not be very good. I am still looking at similar pages to the one that you have linked to, trying to establish which channels are available with which profiles, or whether the profile selected depends on the device that youre using, rather than the channel selected.

I was under the impression that it was the latter, but Im hoping to find confirmation that it is the former...

Here's a list of HLS streams. (do please note these streams don't work with all devices - I use MPD on Linux and I have to use ffmpeg to decode them)

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:-1,[R1] BBC Radio 1
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_one.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R1X] BBC Radio 1Xtra
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_1xtra.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R2] BBC Radio 2
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_two.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R3] BBC Radio 3
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_three.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R4] BBC Radio 4 FM
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R4X] BBC Radio 4 Extra
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_four_extra.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R4L] BBC Radio 4 LW
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_fourlw.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R5] BBC Radio 5 Live
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_five_live.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R5X] BBC Radio 5 Live Sports Extra
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[R6] BBC Radio 6 Music
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_6music.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[AN] BBC Asian Network
http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_asian_network.m3u8
#EXTINF:-1,[WS] BBC World Service
http://bbcwsen-lh.akamaihd.net/i/WSEIEUK_1@189911/master.m3u8

VLC reports the following info when listening to Radio2

[Alucidnation]

Yep I’m reasonably sure it’s only the bbc that are doing hls in the uk at the mo?

[TonyRPH]

Alucidnation said:

Yep I’m reasonably sure it’s only the bbc that are doing hls in the uk at the mo?

Yes, as far I know BBC only - and only for UK residents.

It also doesn't work via a VPN (if resident in the UK).

[LunarOne]

TheInternet said:

GC8 said:

DAB is poor and DAB+ isnt much better - they use a superior codec and then lower the bitrate so it sounds as crap as it did before.

Guess what - they lower it to the lowest acceptable bitrate.

Acceptable to whom? If it sounds worse than FM, it could never be called good. But only listen the the radio in the car and my car is noisy. So I don't particularly care about bitrate. My priority is not having the signal drop out for seconds at a time. My car radio doesn't fall back to FM which would have been a nice feature. If it does I haven't found a setting to enable it.

I wonder how much of it depends on which multiplex I choose. My car radio does enable me to sort stations by either signal strength or by multiplex. I'm not sure how sorting by multiplex is that useful...

[GC8]

That wouldnt work in the way that youre hoping for. Even without stutter and repitition (which were both features of my experience), the digital system lags behind analogue, which is close to instantaneous.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

If you listen to stations like Radio 1, 2, 3, 4 etc DAB is fine in the car...but stations like Absolute and virgin sound awful with their low bit rates. FM is noticeably better and that's not Audiophile nonsense...anyone can tell it's worse.
It's a shame we didn't use Satellite radio when this thread was started, now streaming is the future for sure.
Ground based transmitters use a LOT of electricity and are expensive to run and maintain (TV and Radio) - better to invest in broadband and mobile coverage and use that for everything IMO.

[Alucidnation]

Surely bit rates are down to the broadcaster and what they are willing to pay for?

[anonymous-user]

LunarOne said:

Acceptable to whom? If it sounds worse than FM, it could never be called good. But only listen the the radio in the car and my car is noisy. So I don't particularly care about bitrate. My priority is not having the signal drop out for seconds at a time. My car radio doesn't fall back to FM which would have been a nice feature. If it does I haven't found a setting to enable it.

I wonder how much of it depends on which multiplex I choose. My car radio does enable me to sort stations by either signal strength or by multiplex. I'm not sure how sorting by multiplex is that useful...

Both my cars have DAB and both make a real dogs breakfast of station selection despite being sold 12 years apart by totally different manufacturers from opposite sides of the globe - you first have to chose your "ensemble" from a list with largely meaningless names and then hope the station that you want is in the particular meaningless "ensemble" you selected. Oh and as you move around the country the ensembles disappear and you have to scan for them again.

I'm sure there are good technical reasons that it's done this way, but it makes the whole thing a pain in the arse. As others have noted it sounds like st even in a noisy MX5, it's like the old MP3s I used to steal off the internet in the 90s.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 1st September 13:58

[LunarOne]

Ensemble! That's the word I was looking for. Although I think it's just another word for a multiplex. I'm listening in a Boxster which is noisy by virtue of having a sports exhaust, wide tyres and being a convertible. By default PCM shows all ensembles but you can choose stations from just one. But as you say I can't imagine why you'd want to unless you know for sure that that ensemble has a strong signal. I spend most of my time on the Surrey/Berks border and no matter which ensemble I choose a station from, it drops out every now and then. Invariably just as a piece of vital information is being broadcast. Grrr!

[TheInternet]

stickleback123 said:

I'm sure there are good technical reasons that it's done this way, but it makes the whole thing a pain in the arse.

Not really, that sounds dreadful. Unfortunately DAB doesn't benefit from an entity managing the experience like Freeview/Sky/Freesat/YouView etc.

[saaby93]

Whats wrong with a dial and a set of stations and a big knob?
Or was that how DAB started out?

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadget...

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 1st September 14:34

[TheInternet]

LunarOne said:

I spend most of my time on the Surrey/Berks border and no matter which ensemble I choose a station from, it drops out every now and then.

There are very few places in that area where you cannot adequately receive the national BBC services at least. Do you have any chargers/dashcam kit installed?

Edited by TheInternet on Tuesday 1st September 14:45

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

Alucidnation said:

Surely bit rates are down to the broadcaster and what they are willing to pay for?

It's two things...
1] Yes, it's down to the broadcaster. The BBC use a mux with a high bandwidth for the 'best' quality...but smaller stations share mux's (smaller bandwidth) to either squeeze in more stations like Absolute 80/90/00's etc or simply because it's cheaper.
2] DAB uses MP2 audio compression which is pretty rubbish. DAB+ uses AAC which is much better as it offers a wider bandwidth (3x better) and what most of Europe use...but not us, because Britain.

[TonyRPH]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

<snip>
2] DAB uses MP2 audio compression which is pretty rubbish. DAB+ uses AAC which is much better as it offers a wider bandwidth (3x better) and what most of Europe use...but not us, because Britain.

We do have some DAB+ transmissions - however because they use the AAC codec, it's just given them more reason to drop the bit rate seven further.

From Wiki:
"In 2020, about half of the stations use DAB+, mostly new services, while the BBC and the big commercial stations continue to use the old DAB standard. DAB+ was first tested in the United Kingdom in 2013 before regular services were launched in 2016."

[Alucidnation]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

Alucidnation said:

Surely bit rates are down to the broadcaster and what they are willing to pay for?

It's two things...
1] Yes, it's down to the broadcaster. The BBC use a mux with a high bandwidth for the 'best' quality...but smaller stations share mux's (smaller bandwidth) to either squeeze in more stations like Absolute 80/90/00's etc or simply because it's cheaper.
2] DAB uses MP2 audio compression which is pretty rubbish. DAB+ uses AAC which is much better as it offers a wider bandwidth (3x better) and what most of Europe use...but not us, because Britain.

[GC8]

TonyRPH said:

Here's a list of HLS streams. (do please note these streams don't work with all devices - I use MPD on Linux and I have to use ffmpeg to decode them).

VLC reports the following info when listening to Radio2

Thank you.

[BigBen]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

Alucidnation said:

Surely bit rates are down to the broadcaster and what they are willing to pay for?

It's two things...
1] Yes, it's down to the broadcaster. The BBC use a mux with a high bandwidth for the 'best' quality...but smaller stations share mux's (smaller bandwidth) to either squeeze in more stations like Absolute 80/90/00's etc or simply because it's cheaper.
2] DAB uses MP2 audio compression which is pretty rubbish. DAB+ uses AAC which is much better as it offers a wider bandwidth (3x better) and what most of Europe use...but not us, because Britain.

In fairness to good old Blighty we don't have DAB+ as DAB was adopted a lot earlier in the UK than Europe so there was already a relatively bit and not easily upgradable base of installed and quite expensive radios by the time DAB+ was added to the standard.

A decent analog is the USA having colour TV first so having NTSC rather than the superior PAL that Europe could take advantage of thanks to being later to the party.

[carl_w]

BigBen said:

A decent analog is the USA having colour TV first so having NTSC rather than the superior PAL that Europe could take advantage of thanks to being later to the party.

Never The Same Colour.

[tedman]

DAB in my 2018 Mazda6 is pretty good for signal and lack of dropouts.

I’ve only got the standard stereo (not Bose) so can’t tell the difference in bitrate anyway! Only problem is find is that the audio is much more bass-heavy compared to AUX/Bluetooth audio.

[saaby93]

carl_w said:

BigBen said:

A decent analog is the USA having colour TV first so having NTSC rather than the superior PAL that Europe could take advantage of thanks to being later to the party.

Never The Same Colour.

Never Twice Same Color