Discussion
thescamper said:
Dont agree. I have streamed music via Soundcloud, Mixcload and various internet radio stations via bluetooth to my head unit for over a year now, I have travelled all over the southwest and have done journeys from Plymouth up to the NEC in birmingham and back and without interuption, personally i dont see an issue.
Fair enough, but what I didnt really explain very well is you wont get that service when the 1000s of cars around you want to do the same. The data networks dont have enough capacity or IP address ranges to give every car an IP address in addition to the devices already out there. If you use it happily now, you better hope it doesnt become the norm!Edited by oldaudi on Thursday 19th December 13:21
boyse7en said:
The point of radio (to me) is that it is live, so can provide me with information (news, traffic, weather, etc) and also that the presenter chooses the tracks so I can be entertained, surprised, or disappointed, by the music on offer. I want to hear music that is new, artists I've never heard of, old favourites I'd forgotten.
Well said. 
thescamper said:
Dont agree. I have streamed music via Soundcloud, Mixcload and various internet radio stations via bluetooth to my head unit for over a year now, I have travelled all over the southwest and have done journeys from Plymouth up to the NEC in birmingham and back and without interuption, personally i dont see an issue.
Just try driving the 4 miles between Amersham and Beaconsfield on Vodafone then.Agree though that these things can work most of the time, providing the buffering is sufficient or adaptive. It's certainly no worse than bloody DAB. I stream Soundcloud quite often and it is generally fine.
DAB though is a horrible technology cul-de-sac and one which should never have been adopted by the UK Govt., much less had millions spent on flogging it to disinterested punters for the last 20 years.
DAB as implemented in the UK (and committed to for the foreseeable future) is poor quality, clunky to operate (channels drop in and out of MUXes as you drive about) and expensive.
FM may be spectrum-hungry but it is almost universal, simple to operate, cheap to implement and can be very high quality.
The main problem when comparing internet streaming with DAB is that the areas in which one of them is unavailable are likely to be the same areas where the other technology also has poor coverage.
However, 3G/4G coverage will only get better over time without much intervention, but DAB would need even more cash
If I were the Govt./EU/IETF/ITU/ETSI/etc. I'd be pushing for adoption of a standard interface and protocol for automotive connectivity which would allow a Becker Map Pilot-style plug-in (for non-smartphone owners) or phone via Bluetooth LE to integrate fully with the on-board systems to provide voice-command, mapping, audio and internet services to the car's systems.
Why do I carry a £600 device in my pocket that can do all that, yet I have to pay the car manufacturer that and more to add it all to my new car as well? The wired-in car stuff gets outdated very quickly, but I can change my phone any time.
In this context DAB is an anachronism.
Edited by loudlashadjuster on Thursday 19th December 13:39
Madkat said:
And for those that don't have smart phones?.....Oh yeah you'll end up as a relic of society Seeing as a 'Must have' product now seems to mean an Ipad rather than something truly pivotal to living like heating or cooking food. The want's and needs of modern society seem to be getting blurred. Even the car is regarded as a 'Need' now Not a luxury which it actually is. So this development is trying to turn a 'want' into a 'need' by requiring a 'want' item for something to function.
You've always needed special equipment to listen to the radio, also no one is forcing you to buy a smart phone. You just can't listen to the radio otherwise...hardly life and death (a 'need' as you would put it) is it?Edited by Madkat on Thursday 19th December 12:50
Sadly a lot of the FM transmitters are already past their intended life, that's what's driving the switch off as much as anything.
Edited by varsas on Thursday 19th December 13:40
I suspect that if every car which is 'smartphone compatible' had its connectivity utilised, then the networks would be overloaded and thats now, so how could the infrastructure hope to cope with every motorist who currently listens to the radio switching?
They struggled to deal with BBC iPlayer FFS!
They struggled to deal with BBC iPlayer FFS!
)Went in to Currys in town earlier on in the year looking for a radio, so thought I'd try DAB just to see what the fuss is all about.
Tried all the radios and nothing was happening, no sound at all. Asked the sales bod what was up and he replied that we don't have DAB yet down 'ere.
Well, there we are then.
Fine for cities but sod everyone else
I'll stick to FM & my iPood thanks very much.
Tried all the radios and nothing was happening, no sound at all. Asked the sales bod what was up and he replied that we don't have DAB yet down 'ere.
Well, there we are then.
Fine for cities but sod everyone else
I'll stick to FM & my iPood thanks very much.
Call me old, but I am very annoyed that we HAVE to have an internet connection to operate a business, we NEED a cell phone to function as a full human being, and by the way: PAY UP every month, even though it is not in my interest to have all this. I do because I am forced to, therefore I have a nice message board here on PH, but I won't when I retire, I can tell you that. I want to go off the grid. A business can't operate without paper, because computers fail (and have caused much mayhem for us before). To make the long story short (er), this streaming to your car is great, but it will all cost us.
Fact is that FM sounds miles better than DAB. If I have a car with both, unless it's only available on the digital channel I will always choose FM. The sound is less compressed with much better bass and mid-range.
Someone screwed up somewhere in choosing the DAB quality, it's just too low.
Someone screwed up somewhere in choosing the DAB quality, it's just too low.
ayseven said:
Call me old, but I am very annoyed that we HAVE to have an internet connection to operate a business, ... and by the way: PAY UP every month, even though it is not in my interest to have all this. I do because I am forced to ...
Surely it is in your interest - business is competition and if your competitors can reach your customers better than you can, they win, you lose. The people who only want to deal face to face or over the phone are reducing; evolve or go extinct.0836whimper said:
Fact is that FM sounds miles better than DAB. If I have a car with both, unless it's only available on the digital channel I will always choose FM. The sound is less compressed with much better bass and mid-range.
Someone screwed up somewhere in choosing the DAB quality, it's just too low.
For you maybe. I suspect that for Mr. Average, used to listening to an iPod through tiny earplugs, it'll sound fine or at least good enough especially in the noisy environment of a car.Someone screwed up somewhere in choosing the DAB quality, it's just too low.
jeremyc said:
There is another option - satellite radio as is available in the US.
SiriusXM offers more than 150 channels and coast-to-coast coverage in North America.
All it needs is for someone to invest in setting up the service in the UK.
Please !SiriusXM offers more than 150 channels and coast-to-coast coverage in North America.
All it needs is for someone to invest in setting up the service in the UK.
I had a rental car in the US and we found ourselves listening to TMS in the middle of Montana. That was the Ashes series that England won.
As you say, 100s of crystal clear channels.
I installed a DAB radio in my car and on a 700 mile drive from Durham to Brighton and back the digital signal was AWOL about half the time. Useless.
BS75 said:
Any manufacturer thinking the whole world is going to want to listen to interwebs radio through their phone through their car instead of DAB or FM is as guilty of techno-arrogance as the Silicon Valley tossers who think everyone has an always on, unlimited fibre optic broadband connection.
Yup. What he said.I think people don't realise that one of the 4G licenses is for 98% indoor coverage by 2017. Bearing in mind 3G is currently only 70 odd percent outdoor coverage and that they are aiming to hit the 98% coverage long before 2017 and you start to realise the possibilities. 4G will be everywhere and 3G too most likely.
Cars will have their own 4G receiver in built, much the same as current Sat Nav's do, so it's not coming out of your monthly allowance (although admittedly some car manufacturers may choose to charge a fee for the services).
Cars will have their own 4G receiver in built, much the same as current Sat Nav's do, so it's not coming out of your monthly allowance (although admittedly some car manufacturers may choose to charge a fee for the services).
Technomad said:
This is a complete non-starter in the UK:
- where there ARE high-bandwidth mobile networks, they're often congested or simply broken
- most of the country does not have even 3G coverage, however unreliable, let alone 4G
So anyone trying to use internet radio for mobile use will be the same position as BBC radio circa 1924.
Until we get a proper modern mobile data infrastructure with Universal Service Obligations, this is going nowhere.
I use DAB where I can, but 2/3 of my time I can only get marginal FM.
EE, O2 and Three all cover 90+% of the population with 3G. (Only Vodafone fail to meet this criteria.) 4G coverage is increasing almost daily.- where there ARE high-bandwidth mobile networks, they're often congested or simply broken
- most of the country does not have even 3G coverage, however unreliable, let alone 4G
So anyone trying to use internet radio for mobile use will be the same position as BBC radio circa 1924.
Until we get a proper modern mobile data infrastructure with Universal Service Obligations, this is going nowhere.
I use DAB where I can, but 2/3 of my time I can only get marginal FM.
I already listen to mobile/internet radio on a daily basis when commuting. I'm not sure what your beef is.
rovermorris999 said:
0836whimper said:
Fact is that FM sounds miles better than DAB. If I have a car with both, unless it's only available on the digital channel I will always choose FM. The sound is less compressed with much better bass and mid-range.
Someone screwed up somewhere in choosing the DAB quality, it's just too low.
For you maybe. I suspect that for Mr. Average, used to listening to an iPod through tiny earplugs, it'll sound fine or at least good enough especially in the noisy environment of a car.Someone screwed up somewhere in choosing the DAB quality, it's just too low.
My issue with DAB is that when you go out of range the resulting 'muddy' noise is much worse than the fade out you get with FM. Having said that I've only lost DAB on the far west coast road of Cumbria so far.
So I vote for DAB, in that it seems to work for me and i'd rather listen to that (for 'free') than race through my data allowance listening to a 48kbs broadcast from the internet.
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