Would a dealer get uppity?
Discussion
sleep envy said:
Zwolf said:
No, I'd either decline to accept it in PX if policy was that all cars traded in for resale must be checked prior to purchase or adjust the offer price accordingly. Just as I'd accept a prospective buyer who was denied the opportunity to do so in reverse.
Sales stalemate. If there is an obvious problem with a p/x you bid accordingly. So if a customer is trying to hide a problem by not letting a dealer run a check, then you would bid the same as knowing there's a problem. It's better to not sell a vehicle, than to sell one and discover the p/x needs a shed load of work which wipes out all profit and then some in the deal. Dealers aren't a charity
BigBen said:
Spare tyre said:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone actually screwed up their own car with a code reader?
This is an important point. My money is on no-one.Didn't cause any permanent issues at all, and have had codes read by a specialist with full BMW kit since, just had to reconnect the code reader (following internet research) and it seemed to reset itself. Slightly worrying at the time though, and as I say the reader/laptop combination was tried and tested in the M5 owners' club and worked perfectly on my E39 M5. It wasn't a cheapy stand-alone code reader either, PC-based INPA diagnostic program.
On the other side of the coin when selling my M3 Evo the buyer's Dad ran an OE-approved body and workshop and asked to check the codes on my car before we agreed a price. I had no issue with that.
Fast Bug said:
As has been siad here already, if a dealer wouldn't show the diagnostics check to a customer then the dealer must have something to hide. If a customer wouldn't allow the dealer to run a check then they must have something to hide, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
You've got the wrong end of the stick.Whilst the dealer can rightly claim that they wouldn't want a punter mucking about with their stock so too can the punter claim he doesn't want the 'suit' mucking about with his PX.
Saying that, it does offer another scenario, if a punter claimed their car wasn't working correctly after you checked for codes of a PX would you open you cheque book to effect repairs?
Fast Bug said:
If there is an obvious problem with a p/x you bid accordingly. So if a customer is trying to hide a problem by not letting a dealer run a check, then you would bid the same as knowing there's a problem. It's better to not sell a vehicle, than to sell one and discover the p/x needs a shed load of work which wipes out all profit and then some in the deal.
I'm all for doing the due dilligence on a deal, I do it every day. You know what your buying and its worth.Fast Bug said:
Dealers aren't a charity
Really? Well I never.If we plugged our diagnostics in and caused a problem, then it would be down to us to fix it. It's much the same as if we damaged a customers car on test drive, there's no difference, we damaged it we pay for it.
sleep envy said:
Really? Well I never.
You'd think we are talking to some customers Fast Bug said:
As has been siad here already, if a dealer wouldn't show the diagnostics check to a customer then the dealer must have something to hide. If a customer wouldn't allow the dealer to run a check then they must have something to hide, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
If someone said they would allow a fault code check on their P/X (And to make this as close to possible as the 'shoe being on the other foot'. Let's say this hypothetical P/X is a car you'd really like to put into your stock), but on the condition that only his mate did it on their equipment. Of course they'd be willing to provide a print out or would do a 'demonstration' of the code check with you present, but because he did not 'trust' your tech or equipment your reader is not going on that car until you've handed over money, let me guess that you'd be the first to laugh, tell him to stop wasting your time and then be on the phone to your mates in the trade about this nutter that who wanted to P/X a car in but wouldn't let you check it properly, right? Or would you be willing to take someone's word on something when its your money on the line?They are being no more obtuse than you are IMO...
Edited by JoshyS on Monday 6th January 15:52
JoshyS said:
Fast Bug said:
As has been siad here already, if a dealer wouldn't show the diagnostics check to a customer then the dealer must have something to hide. If a customer wouldn't allow the dealer to run a check then they must have something to hide, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
If someone said they would allow a fault code check on their P/X (And to make this as close to possible as the 'shoe being on the other foot'. Let's say this hypothetical P/X is a car you'd really like to put into your stock), but on the condition that only his mate did it on their equipment. Of course they'd be willing to provide a print out or would do a 'demonstration' of the code check with you present, but because he did not 'trust' your tech or equipment your reader is not going on that car until you've handed over money, let me guess that you'd be the first to laugh, tell him to stop wasting your time and then be on the phone to your mates in the trade about this nutter that who wanted to P/X a car in but wouldn't let you check it properly, right? Or would you be willing to take someone's word on something when its your money on the line?They are being no more obtuse than you are IMO...
Edited by JoshyS on Monday 6th January 15:52
Hypothetical nonsense, like I said earlier, Ive been asked twice in the last 3000 cars I have sold if they could do a code check.
JoshyS said:
Fast Bug said:
As has been siad here already, if a dealer wouldn't show the diagnostics check to a customer then the dealer must have something to hide. If a customer wouldn't allow the dealer to run a check then they must have something to hide, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
If someone said they would allow a fault code check on their P/X (And to make this as close to possible as the 'shoe being on the other foot'. Let's say this hypothetical P/X is a car you'd really like to put into your stock), but on the condition that only his mate did it on their equipment. Of course they'd be willing to provide a print out or would do a 'demonstration' of the code check with you present, but because he did not 'trust' your tech or equipment your reader is not going on that car until you've handed over money, let me guess that you'd be the first to laugh, tell him to stop wasting your time and then be on the phone to your mates in the trade about this nutter that who wanted to P/X a car in but wouldn't let you check it properly, right? Or would you be willing to take someone's word on something when its your money on the line?They are being no more obtuse than you are IMO...
Edited by JoshyS on Monday 6th January 15:52
This thread is quite funny reading... I'm not a car dealer.
Would anyone wanting to plug an OBD device into a dealer's car let a random member of the public plug a device of unknown origin into their car? I wouldn't.
And why would you be upset with the dealer showing the codes from their own OBD reader unless you don't trust them and in which case why the hell are you looking to buy a car from someone you don't trust?! Go to someone you do.
Chances are it'll do nothing wrong - but it could. Risk/benefit. Weren't all those 3 Series BMWs being stolen via people re-programming via the OBD?
Regardless that someone *could* cause problems with the OBD is sufficient reason.
Would anyone wanting to plug an OBD device into a dealer's car let a random member of the public plug a device of unknown origin into their car? I wouldn't.
And why would you be upset with the dealer showing the codes from their own OBD reader unless you don't trust them and in which case why the hell are you looking to buy a car from someone you don't trust?! Go to someone you do.
Chances are it'll do nothing wrong - but it could. Risk/benefit. Weren't all those 3 Series BMWs being stolen via people re-programming via the OBD?
Regardless that someone *could* cause problems with the OBD is sufficient reason.
POORCARDEALER said:
And most car buyers have a mate with model specific computers....?
And you have all of the up to date Manufacturers' diagnostic equipment for every vehicle you'd ever likely to retail? Really? I've not come across that sort of coverage in service departments of main dealers across a multiple brands for their Part exs, I'd be very impressed that if you've managed it.
What I imagine is more likely is that you have at least one 'Universal' reader the likes of Snap On or Bosch which are brilliant bits of kit, but they are freely available to the public, at a price, and it is perfectly believable that a 'mate' would have access to one. Like I asked on the other page, would you have a problem if someone suitably trained was using one of these?
POORCARDEALER said:
Hypothetical nonsense, like I said earlier, Ive been asked twice in the last 3000 cars I have sold if they could do a code check.
Wonderful. However as you know with in recent influx of cheap code readers and cars becoming more publicized for having 'hidden' electronic faults that only code readers can see it is very likely that you will be asked a few more times for the next 3000 you sell.Don't get me wrong. I understand your 'Its my stock and I'll do with it what I please' way of thinking, I just want to see if there is actually any tangible basis behind it.
Agent Orange said:
Weren't all those 3 Series BMWs being stolen via people re-programming via the OBD? Regardless that someone *could* cause problems with the OBD is sufficient reason.
Yes, which is one potential risk of letting a potential customer have access to it. They could well be storing the transponder frequencies/codes to later come back and steal your stock. Which your insurance might not cover if they knew you granted anyone who asked access to vehicle systems. JoshyS said:
I've not come across that sort of coverage in service departments of main dealers across a multiple brands for their Part exs, I'd be very impressed that if you've managed it.
No, which is part of the point. If the vast majority of the motor trade can manage to buy its stock and part exchanges in without feeling a need to run diagnostic checks on every single one, then it's good enough for Joe Public buying his one car every few years who's backed up by consumer law in the event of subsequent faults too, unlike dealers. Zwolf said:
No, which is part of the point. If the vast majority of the motor trade can manage to buy its stock and part exchanges in without feeling a need to run diagnostic checks on every single one, then it's good enough for Joe Public buying his one car every few years who's backed up by consumer law in the event of subsequent faults too, unlike dealers.
And those members of the public that will insist on a diagnostic check before purchase will have to buy from someone who'll let them make the check. The vast majority of the car buying public (myself included) aren't like that, so it won't have an impact on dealers. But the argument "it should be good enough" doesn't wash for me. Arguably someone who buys one car every few years rather than buying and selling tens of them a year should, and can, do more due diligence on that purchase than a dealer can on each part-ex or car they take for stock.
That said, whether a dealer lets them run their own diagnostic is absolutely up to them.
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