Winter tyres vol 2

[andyps]

sly fox said:

B) insurance company might pay very careful attention to you if you have crashed - any excuse not to pay out or point finger for liabilty blah blah

This suggestion always puzzles me. Have you ever heard of an insurance company not paying out for someone who had mismatched tyres on a car (even on the same axle) with premium tyres on some wheels and the cheapest of the cheap on others? The difference there can be a lot larger than that between good quality winters and summers in all but the most extreme situations and no one that I have ever heard about has lost a claim for using summer tyres on snow/ice and crashing as a direct result of the lack of grip they had.

Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely interested. And for confirmation when I told my insurance company they were quite happy with it provided they were standard size tyres on OE wheels.

[rallycross]

sly fox said:

rallycross said:

--and on front wheel drive cars we usually just run them on the front (from Nov - April). As someone who has driven thousands of miles like this I can confirm it will be fine and you wont end up in the nearest ditch (regardless of all the peoples comments on here who have never tried this

A) your username might reflect the casual attitude to mixing tyre types across axles
B) insurance company might pay very careful attention to you if you have crashed - any excuse not to pay out or point finger for liabilty blah blah
C) "you confirm it will be fine and your won't end up in the nearest ditch" - will you pay out damages for those people that have tried it and crash?
D) any snow/ice/black ice driving scenario which involves rearward weight transfer will be interesting indeed. Refer back to A)

Drive whatever tyre combination you want- but that kind of 'advice' is just nonsense.

Its not nonsense, its from real world experience of driving, not some keyboard expert who has no first hand experience of what they are talking about (if you had tried you would know how little effect it has on a FWD car driven normally).

The OP wanted to know if it was safe to drive the car, and it is, but with a view to get another matching tyre on the rear soon.

And I would always advise to have 4 winter tyres fitted not 2, but the fact is it would have been safe to drive, but 4 winters fitted together is the best solution (even with 2 matching on each axle).

Edited by rallycross on Monday 26th January 16:52

[Lucas Ayde]

vrsmxtb said:

I have a confession to make.

My winter tyres are worse than my summer tyres on normal, reasonably cold greasy surfaces. They trigger the ABS more, wheelspin more, understeer more. Better on snow, but here in the south-east corner of the UK that is the absolute minority of the time, if at all.

If buying again, I either wouldn't bother or I'd go for the absolute premium winter tyres. For reference I'm comparing Hankook winters to Continental summers.

My last set of winter tyres were actually Nordic rated and grip deteriorated badly on damp/wet surfaces as temps approached double digits. They were however superb in snow and ice and in the extreme cold which helped during the 2010/2011 and 2011/2012 Winters. However, after last year's (relatively) 'warm' and very wet Winter I had them replaced with Dunlop Wintersports which are superb in the wet even at 10C and performed very well on the snow and ice we have had so far.

For the British Isles, winter tyres that are biased more in favour of 'cold and wet' performance rather than optimised for rockstar performance in sub-zero conditions are probably a better choice on the whole.

[Countdown]

Dog Star said:

Be aware though that there are often kerbs delimiting parking areas, ends of rows, and so on. If the snow is deep enough and untouched these become all but invisible, and can put a major dampener on your sideways drift hero action

Tesco car park in Rawtenstall....

[sly fox]

rallycross said:

Its not nonsense, its from real world experience of driving, not some keyboard expert who has no first hand experience of what they are talking about (if you had tried you would know how little effect it has on a FWD car driven normally).

The OP wanted to know if it was safe to drive the car, and it is, but with a view to get another matching tyre on the rear soon.

And I would always advise to have 4 winter tyres fitted not 2, but the fact is it would have been safe to drive, but 4 winters fitted together is the best solution (even with 2 matching on each axle).

Edited by rallycross on Monday 26th January 16:52

Why do you buy winter /cold weather tyres? To deal with extremes (ice/snow/black ice) - it's not necessarily the oft quoted improvement in ' below 7 degrees conditions', but for when it really counts- the downhill bend early on a cold morning covered in the slippery stuff. like> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xXDMkVFlE blah blah blah.

The generalising and recommending to the internet that 'i've done it so you will be fine' is what i objected to. It's an opinion at best, not fact, science or statistics.


Driving normally? If you have no grip, driving normally has nothing to do with it. You can lose control at less than 5mph on ice with the wrong tyres. You can cause dramatic shifts in weight transfer at low speeds, just like if you cross a split friction surface - think painted road markings in the rain- or hit a pothole at the wrong angle on a bend. Back to the winter scenario, how will your front pair of winter tyres help you if the rear end starts to drift? It's your opinion that it is safe to drive like that- fine, but it's not an opinion to inflict on others. I suspect that the OP got to a garage ok to buy his replacement winter tyres as a temporary measure, but to recommend that it's fine as a permanent winter solution is laughable. Who knows what combination of car/roads/conditions/weather/traffic they will come across and that it would be remotely similar to yours?


Keyboard expert? Who knows what my driving experience/cars/tyres is like least of all you. Having driven across Scotland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark in winter obviously counts nothing towards this thread.

[Theoldman]

Dirver told home owner "Some bloke on PH said I'd be alright on my summers"!!

[tenohfive]

sly fox said:

It's your opinion that it is safe to drive like that- fine, but it's not an opinion to inflict on others.

And there was me thinking that we share all our opinions and experiences on the subject, discuss the positives and pit falls of any given approach and let others make an informed decision as to what's the most suitable set up for themselves and their families.

[jshell]

tenohfive said:

sly fox said:

It's your opinion that it is safe to drive like that- fine, but it's not an opinion to inflict on others.

And there was me thinking that we share all our opinions and experiences on the subject, discuss the positives and pit falls of any given approach and let others make an informed decision as to what's the most suitable set up for themselves and their families.

I'm with rallycross on this, we drove a mkII golf 16v on two front Vredesteins throughout a number of Northern Scottish winters with no 'swapping ends'! It was far safer than no winters.

[p1esk]

tenohfive said:

sly fox said:

It's your opinion that it is safe to drive like that- fine, but it's not an opinion to inflict on others.

And there was me thinking that we share all our opinions and experiences on the subject, discuss the positives and pit falls of any given approach and let others make an informed decision as to what's the most suitable set up for themselves and their families.

Aye, that approach gets my vote, but if we all worked on that basis, many pH threads would be a lot shorter; in which case I'd get rather more work done!

[vrsmxtb]

Lucas Ayde said:

vrsmxtb said:

I have a confession to make.

My winter tyres are worse than my summer tyres on normal, reasonably cold greasy surfaces. They trigger the ABS more, wheelspin more, understeer more. Better on snow, but here in the south-east corner of the UK that is the absolute minority of the time, if at all.

If buying again, I either wouldn't bother or I'd go for the absolute premium winter tyres. For reference I'm comparing Hankook winters to Continental summers.

My last set of winter tyres were actually Nordic rated and grip deteriorated badly on damp/wet surfaces as temps approached double digits. They were however superb in snow and ice and in the extreme cold which helped during the 2010/2011 and 2011/2012 Winters. However, after last year's (relatively) 'warm' and very wet Winter I had them replaced with Dunlop Wintersports which are superb in the wet even at 10C and performed very well on the snow and ice we have had so far.

For the British Isles, winter tyres that are biased more in favour of 'cold and wet' performance rather than optimised for rockstar performance in sub-zero conditions are probably a better choice on the whole.

That's kind of why I'm disappointed, the Hankooks I have are supposed to be biased more towards cold, wet winters than all out ice and snow performance. They have a fairly normal outside half tread pattern, then a slightly more aggressive inside edge, but have sipes throughout.

[Kell]

I've not responded to this thread for a while, but just to confirm why I feel vindicated to go for winters.

Last weekend I had an early appointment at a hospital. To get there the shortest route means taking a B road.

As the temp was 4.5 and there was a fair bit of standing water, at no point did the thought of ice enter my head. Most of the road was fine, but I braked for one of the corners and I could feel the ABS going mental. All fairly calm though, the car stayed straight and still scrubbed off a lot of speed fairly quickly.

I quickly caught up with the car in front of me which was doing about 5mph and was sliding all over the place. While my car (big, heavy A6) was fine.

I had my appointment, but then then had to have an injection and the quack recommended that I didn't drive after it. So I went home (on the same road) now a little more mindful of the conditions, and returned with my wife.

Lo and behold, when we drove back, there was a brand new Fiat 500 with extensive front damage being lifted onto a recovery truck. There were no other cars and the damage looked like it had hit a tree rather than a car by the shape of the dent in the front.

So just as I was beginning to think that fitting them was a waste of time this year, they could well have saved me from quite a lot of pain. Given that I'm currently being treated for a problem with the joints in my neck, the last thing I want is to plough into a tree and cause whiplash on top.

Edited by Kell on Wednesday 28th January 13:56

[blueST]

Off with the summers that are down to the wear markers and on with some winters for a couple of months. Fresh of the truck from Germany yesterday, with tyres ready mounted and balanced. I went for Dunlop WinterSport 4D because of their snow performance in reviews, as that's what's important to me. Wheels are smaller in both diameter and width to the summers, and they aren't run flats either, so I'm hoping for feather bed comfort in addition to the ability to keep moving when it snows.

These aren't my first winters so I've weighed up the pros and cons for me. I was caught out last week when I surfed down the hill backwards, out of control! Don't want a repeat of that.

[jock mcsporran]

We've got the 4d's on the wife's car. Couldn't fault them as we drove across Europe the weekend after Christmas. We must have covered 400 miles on snow covered roads that day with the other 300 miles being very wet. Without them we wouldn't even have got off the mountain.

[rsv gone!]

Dog Star said:

Be aware though that there are often kerbs delimiting parking areas, ends of rows, and so on. If the snow is deep enough and untouched these become all but invisible, and can put a major dampener on your sideways drift hero action

Thank god it was a company car.....

[blueST]

jock mcsporran said:

We've got the 4d's on the wife's car. Couldn't fault them as we drove across Europe the weekend after Christmas. We must have covered 400 miles on snow covered roads that day with the other 300 miles being very wet. Without them we wouldn't even have got off the mountain.

Just given them a gentler test tonight, 80 mile round trip to Carnforth in the light snow no problems at all. Actually, the biggest bonus so far is the tremendous ride comfort.

[lemonslap]

blueST said:

Off with the summers that are down to the wear markers and on with some winters for a couple of months. Fresh of the truck from Germany yesterday, with tyres ready mounted and balanced. I went for Dunlop WinterSport 4D because of their snow performance in reviews, as that's what's important to me. Wheels are smaller in both diameter and width to the summers, and they aren't run flats either, so I'm hoping for feather bed comfort in addition to the ability to keep moving when it snows.

These aren't my first winters so I've weighed up the pros and cons for me. I was caught out last week when I surfed down the hill backwards, out of control! Don't want a repeat of that.

I have been using the wintersport 4D on my focus since 2011.

I have driven with them in drifting snow all the way to 15C+ temps and raining, they are a great allrounder for our typical British winters. One thing I will say is people tend to get very upset (much flashing of lights) if you dare to overtake them on a snowy country road while they're potting along at 20mph...

[JagXJR]

Especially if they are 4x4s

I overheard someone say " he'll not get far with that Jaguar" the other day. Didn't have the heart to tell him it is 4 wheel drive with Winter tyres on.

Has been getting along country lanes only a few 4x4s have been using with zero problems. No ABS cutting in or TC. Even braked hard on a empty, straight, snow covered road to test the braking - just ground to a halt quickly with no drama. Very impressed!

Less impressive was having to dig a path to the road 2 days on the trot, because the snow was half way up the bumper

Oh well, my fault for moving out to the sticks.

[SkinnyPete]

Junction 5 to 6, all traffic in lane 1 and 2 doing no more than 40mph due lane 3 being covered in snow.

Except for one knob in his 255 section winter tyre equipped Porsche

Felt fine at 45mph but I didn't squeeze the throttle any more. I bet most people were they like WTF and expecting me to crash.

[JagXJR]

Probably safer in lane 3, I would have done the same.

[andyps]

SkinnyPete said:

Junction 5 to 6, all traffic in lane 1 and 2 doing no more than 40mph due lane 3 being covered in snow.

Except for one knob in his 255 section winter tyre equipped Porsche

Felt fine at 45mph but I didn't squeeze the throttle any more. I bet most people were they like WTF and expecting me to crash.

Any reports of crashes after you went by? Maybe someone thought, if a Porsche can do that I'll be fine!