Winter tyres vol 2

[Patrick Bateman]

It's generally a lot closer to zero I've noticed any benefit, more like 3 degrees and under.

[McWigglebum4th]

rsv gone! said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Are winter tyres worth it?

Lets put it this way


I have never got stuck due to too much sun

Sounds like you don't need Summer tyres.

bingo

Give me justification in fitting summer tyres

[jshell]

McWigglebum4th said:

rsv gone! said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Are winter tyres worth it?

Lets put it this way


I have never got stuck due to too much sun

Sounds like you don't need Summer tyres.

bingo

Give me justification in fitting summer tyres

Loads of people just run winters all year now. I do on the Cayenne and it works. It also doesn't take 1,500m to stop in the warmer weather.

[anonymous-user]

McWigglebum4th said:

rsv gone! said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Are winter tyres worth it?

Lets put it this way


I have never got stuck due to too much sun

Sounds like you don't need Summer tyres.

bingo

Give me justification in fitting summer tyres

If you drive a car that is remotely performance orientated.

[DickyC]

At the weekend my wife and I drove to Devon and back in her elderly SLK. With a lot of standing water about I was sufficiently concerned about the amount of spray visible in the mirrors to wonder if the rear valance had fallen off. I also made a mental note to ask the garage to check the diff as there was an incessant whine coming from somewhere. It wasn't until I had to stop for fuel because for the first time the car wasn't going to do the trip on a tankful that I realised all my complaints stemmed from the winter tyres I had fitted in October. Never had them before and this was the first long journey equipped with them. They are very good at dispelling surface water but they are noisy and they compromise fuel economy. Very pleased with their ability in slippery conditions and all that but it's time to take them off now. She has had the car a long time and over the years I have acquired a spare set of wheels, so it will just be a Spring and Autumn job to swap them over.

[RicksAlfas]

New "CrossClimate" from Michelin:

http://fleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/Mar/Michelin-lau...

"The CrossClimate range has achieved an A rating for wet braking and C rating for fuel efficiency, according to European tyre labelling legislation, matching or close to the figures expected from Michelin’s summer tyres.

Yet the new tyre also carries the Three Peak Mountain Snow Flake certification, which means it can be used during the winter like a cold-weather tyre."

This kind of tyre would make huge sense for "normal" motorists in "normal" cars in this country.

[MC Bodge]

DickyC said:

At the weekend my wife and I drove to Devon and back in her elderly SLK. With a lot of standing water about I was sufficiently concerned about the amount of spray visible in the mirrors to wonder if the rear valance had fallen off. I also made a mental note to ask the garage to check the diff as there was an incessant whine coming from somewhere. It wasn't until I had to stop for fuel because for the first time the car wasn't going to do the trip on a tankful that I realised all my complaints stemmed from the winter tyres I had fitted in October. Never had them before and this was the first long journey equipped with them. They are very good at dispelling surface water but they are noisy and they compromise fuel economy. Very pleased with their ability in slippery conditions and all that but it's time to take them off now. She has had the car a long time and over the years I have acquired a spare set of wheels, so it will just be a Spring and Autumn job to swap them over.

Just but Uniroyal Rainsports

[JagXJR]

AnotherGareth said:

Winter diesel will make fuel consumption worse, so that'll also need to be factored into the calculation.

Is that because of the additive to stop it freezing?

[jon-]

RicksAlfas said:

New "CrossClimate" from Michelin:

http://fleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/Mar/Michelin-lau...

"The CrossClimate range has achieved an A rating for wet braking and C rating for fuel efficiency, according to European tyre labelling legislation, matching or close to the figures expected from Michelin’s summer tyres.

Yet the new tyre also carries the Three Peak Mountain Snow Flake certification, which means it can be used during the winter like a cold-weather tyre."

This kind of tyre would make huge sense for "normal" motorists in "normal" cars in this country.

I went to that launch. It really is something special for the UK climate:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Cros...

[DickyC]

MC Bodge said:

DickyC said:

Interminable story about driving to Devon and back on winter tyres.

Just buy Uniroyal Rainsports

Thanks for that. Noted for next time.

[RicksAlfas]

jon- said:

I went to that launch. It really is something special for the UK climate:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Cros...

Looks good Jon. Would make a lot of sense for many drivers.

I wonder if any manufacturers will start fitting them as OEM?
Fiat seem to be using Goodyear 4Seasons on some of the 500L models.

[jon-]

RicksAlfas said:

jon- said:

I went to that launch. It really is something special for the UK climate:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Cros...

Looks good Jon. Would make a lot of sense for many drivers.

I wonder if any manufacturers will start fitting them as OEM?
Fiat seem to be using Goodyear 4Seasons on some of the 500L models.

As a rule the OE's don't like directional tyres, but if the Vector 4Seasons makes it then these should.

This tyre is a considerably better balance for the UK than the Goodyear, as you can see from the spider diagram. I'm fairly certain the Goodyear will beat it in snow and ice handling, but that's not a top requirement in the UK.

[Munter]

jon- said:

RicksAlfas said:

New "CrossClimate" from Michelin:

<snip>

I went to that launch. It really is something special for the UK climate:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Cros...

That is basically the tyre I've been looking for on the daily drive. A quick squint on their website say's it'll be in my size as well. Just not available until May apparently. Which gives me time to wear out the Nexens, and <generic chinese brand> that came with the car...

[jon-]

Munter said:

jon- said:

RicksAlfas said:

New "CrossClimate" from Michelin:

<snip>

I went to that launch. It really is something special for the UK climate:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Cros...

That is basically the tyre I've been looking for on the daily drive. A quick squint on their website say's it'll be in my size as well. Just not available until May apparently. Which gives me time to wear out the Nexens, and <generic chinese brand> that came with the car...

They're the tyre I've been telling people to make for years now, apparently quotes off tyrereviews were actually used in the development brief which is pretty cool to a tyre geek like me

[MC Bodge]

RicksAlfas said:

Looks good Jon. Would make a lot of sense for many drivers.

I wonder if any manufacturers will start fitting them as OEM?
Fiat seem to be using Goodyear 4Seasons on some of the 500L models.

Possibly makes sense for the temperate climate in the UK.

Non-extreme conditions calls for a non-extreme, year-round tyre.

Those weird van-like creations are seemingly bought almost exclusively by Enterprise car rental.

[JagXJR]

I ran budget Winters on my car all year round last year, just could not be bothered to change them.

I did so with a bit of trepidation having read some posts on here and was expecting them to be a bit of a nightmare. Not once did they give me any cause for concern. Not once have they ever lost grip, except for on a sheet ice patch of road to see how well they actually did grip. On that occasion the 4 wheel drive did its thing, sending traction to other wheels so there never really was much drama.

Just like others who drive to the conditions in Winter, I do in Summer and have never had to emergency stop on them (in Summer, had to recently when a car pulled out into the lane I was in at half the speed I was doing with less than a car length between us, still stopped ok) so cannot say for sure how much worse they would be.

I am happy to accept a bit less grip in the Summer for the significant increase in Winter. The fuel economy seems to be much the same as when I had budget Summers on tbh.

Not criticising anyone elses choice, just stating my experiences.

[tenohfive]

jon- said:

Munter said:

jon- said:

RicksAlfas said:

New "CrossClimate" from Michelin:

<snip>

I went to that launch. It really is something special for the UK climate:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Cros...

That is basically the tyre I've been looking for on the daily drive. A quick squint on their website say's it'll be in my size as well. Just not available until May apparently. Which gives me time to wear out the Nexens, and <generic chinese brand> that came with the car...

They're the tyre I've been telling people to make for years now, apparently quotes off tyrereviews were actually used in the development brief which is pretty cool to a tyre geek like me

I'd want to see more about the snow and ice performance to become interested. If something like the Vector4Seasons offer 85% the performance of a winter, and the CrossClimate doesn't perform as well in snow then I'd want to know how much worse. Full disclosure: I've run Vector4Seasons and if I went back to a FWD they'd be the first thing I'd buy for it.

Regularly fitting anything with an M+S label on can only be a good thing for the UK roads come winter time, but I wonder if this tyre will actually be bought by anyone other than those already considering winters or all seasons.

[Lucas Ayde]

I'd definitely agree that a more all-season tyre would probably be the best choice for Winter in most parts of the British Isles.

When to switch between full-on Winter tyres and regular tryes is always a bit of a lottery plus some Winters can be very mild. Last year's where I live was relatively warm and very wet, I got very little benefit from running Winter tyres. This year the Winter tyres have been much more useful for me as I've faced lower temps and much more snow, sleet and ice - but who knows about next year?

Something that was optimised for cold and wet with decent snow and ice performance would be more suitable to put on in the Winter and most people would be quite happy to run them year round.

[Mr2Mike]

tenohfive said:

I don't put too much by the 7 degrees comment but given that the reason winters grip better in low temps is because of the compound being different i.e. it remains flexible, and I'd imagine (perhaps jon can comment here) that most winters use a similar compound then the basic drop off point of grip in relation to temperature should be roughly the same across many similar winter tyres.

Edited by tenohfive on Wednesday 4th March 12:48

I certainly wouldn't deny that summer tyres offer less grip as temperatures start heading toward freezing, and that winter tyres will offer better grip in such conditions. My beef is simply that some arbitrary number has been pulled out of someones bottom and that it's now regularly quoted as the point at which summer tyres stop working.

[jon-]

tenohfive said:

jon- said:

Munter said:

jon- said:

RicksAlfas said:

New "CrossClimate" from Michelin:

<snip>

I went to that launch. It really is something special for the UK climate:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Cros...

That is basically the tyre I've been looking for on the daily drive. A quick squint on their website say's it'll be in my size as well. Just not available until May apparently. Which gives me time to wear out the Nexens, and <generic chinese brand> that came with the car...

They're the tyre I've been telling people to make for years now, apparently quotes off tyrereviews were actually used in the development brief which is pretty cool to a tyre geek like me

I'd want to see more about the snow and ice performance to become interested. If something like the Vector4Seasons offer 85% the performance of a winter, and the CrossClimate doesn't perform as well in snow then I'd want to know how much worse. Full disclosure: I've run Vector4Seasons and if I went back to a FWD they'd be the first thing I'd buy for it.

Regularly fitting anything with an M+S label on can only be a good thing for the UK roads come winter time, but I wonder if this tyre will actually be bought by anyone other than those already considering winters or all seasons.

I must have written that article badly, or you skimmed it

The CrossClimate offers 100% of the snow performance under braking and traction of a Alpin 5. The Alpin 5 is a full winter tyre!

The Alpin (and likely the Vector) will offer higher lateral grip, but to get us out of the car park and onto the treated roads, the CrossClimate will do just fine.

Video of TUV testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s27h58WZLhc&li...