Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
ecs0set said:
Catatafish said:
or you could say the contact patch is smaller a different shape, the car's weight remains the same, so the tyres are forced harder (higher friction) into whatever you're driving over...
No?Oops, so just buying 255/35/18 Pirelli Sottozero 240 series 2 for my 320d was a bad idea. O well also bought some Nokian WR D3's for the girfriends z4 in small 16's should make up for it. And when the snow gets bad we'll take the galant VR4 running michelin alpin a4's. It'll go anywhere, even act like a snow plow 
So as you can guess I'm a fan of winters but I drive long distances at night so it really gives me a good sense of security. And the two BMWs are awful in the snow. I got stuck on the roads camber in Edinburgh with only a very light dusting last winter on my summers. Wasn't forecast so wasn't in the galant. Don t want to do that again.
So as you can guess I'm a fan of winters but I drive long distances at night so it really gives me a good sense of security. And the two BMWs are awful in the snow. I got stuck on the roads camber in Edinburgh with only a very light dusting last winter on my summers. Wasn't forecast so wasn't in the galant. Don t want to do that again.
TA14 said:
Sort of - the contact patch is smaller with a narrower tyre and it is also a different shape, that is not just the same shape smaller. Also the narrower tyre is cutting into a narrower width of snow so you've the horizontal action to consider as well as the vertical one.
To my way of thinking, Pressure =Force/Area.Force stays the same (since the cars weight is constant - ignoring tyre weights as insignificant) So Contact area is inversely proportional to the pressure. If the tyre pressures are the same then the contact area will be the same.
OK some inaccuracy due to sidewall stiffness etc, but I'm not convinced that using a narrower tyre has any massive effect on contact area.
Contact area shape does make a difference to grip - look at the research on stiction and adhesive strength.
I'd be interested to see some research on different width tyres with the same profile.
Skyedriver said:
Volvo Estate RWD
Michelin Alpen 4 or 5 or Toyo Snoprox S942 or S943
What would you go for.
Buying from My tyres before the 4th as I have a discount offer.
Always used Toyo in the past but wifes SX4 has Michelin
Alpin a4 was a highly regarded tyre. The a5 is the updated version so should be a improvement. Too snow prox doesn't seem anywhere near as well regarded as the michelins on tyre reviews but are probably significantly cheaper. My a4's have been superb over the last few winters and wear has been very low. Has kept me going where many others were stuck in heavy snowfall, slush and ice. I'd be choosing the a5's if I was in your position. Michelin Alpen 4 or 5 or Toyo Snoprox S942 or S943
What would you go for.
Buying from My tyres before the 4th as I have a discount offer.
Always used Toyo in the past but wifes SX4 has Michelin
Skyedriver said:
Volvo Estate RWD
Michelin Alpen 4 or 5 or Toyo Snoprox S942 or S943
What would you go for.
Buying from My tyres before the 4th as I have a discount offer.
Always used Toyo in the past but wifes SX4 has Michelin
Michelin all day. Toyo 35th: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2015-Winter-T...Michelin Alpen 4 or 5 or Toyo Snoprox S942 or S943
What would you go for.
Buying from My tyres before the 4th as I have a discount offer.
Always used Toyo in the past but wifes SX4 has Michelin
I have found Michelin Alpin A4's really good. Because I only have one set of wheels and my summer tyres were all under 3mm, I never got round to changing them back to summer tyres this year, and it's been fine even in summer. Steering has lost some precision as the wheels move around on tyre blocks but otherwise it's all been fine.
The loss of summer performance is noticeable but far less than the gains in wintery/cold/'orrible morning commute stuff in winter. When they wear out, I'll have a look at Cross Climates.
The loss of summer performance is noticeable but far less than the gains in wintery/cold/'orrible morning commute stuff in winter. When they wear out, I'll have a look at Cross Climates.
Thanks for that info, might try the Alpin 5's
It was the Toyo S942 that propelled me and my last Volvo 940 up a snowy track every day for 6 weeks when the only other things getting up there were Land Rovers and a Suzuki Vitara.
The S942 is now superseded by the S943 which is supposed to be better but more from an energy saving side it appears. I need grip not reduced rolling resistance. Actually had S943 on my Jag estate last year but it didn't snow.....
It was the Toyo S942 that propelled me and my last Volvo 940 up a snowy track every day for 6 weeks when the only other things getting up there were Land Rovers and a Suzuki Vitara.
The S942 is now superseded by the S943 which is supposed to be better but more from an energy saving side it appears. I need grip not reduced rolling resistance. Actually had S943 on my Jag estate last year but it didn't snow.....
Skyedriver said:
Thanks for that info, might try the Alpin 5's
It was the Toyo S942 that propelled me and my last Volvo 940 up a snowy track every day for 6 weeks when the only other things getting up there were Land Rovers and a Suzuki Vitara.
The S942 is now superseded by the S943 which is supposed to be better but more from an energy saving side it appears. I need grip not reduced rolling resistance. Actually had S943 on my Jag estate last year but it didn't snow.....
Cheaper winter tyres traditionally have no problems in snow, and if they were only used in snow they're probably a good choice.It was the Toyo S942 that propelled me and my last Volvo 940 up a snowy track every day for 6 weeks when the only other things getting up there were Land Rovers and a Suzuki Vitara.
The S942 is now superseded by the S943 which is supposed to be better but more from an energy saving side it appears. I need grip not reduced rolling resistance. Actually had S943 on my Jag estate last year but it didn't snow.....
Like cheaper summer tyres, cheaper winter tyres do have more of a problem in dry and wet braking but with even bigger margins, which characterises our winters.
In fact, I was testing the Conti TS850 against a Primacy 3 yesterday, and while it just about matched it in wet braking, it was 18% worse in dry. The test temperature was at 18c, but weirdly that's not overly unusual for our Autumns!
TooLateForAName said:
TA14 said:
Sort of - the contact patch is smaller with a narrower tyre and it is also a different shape, that is not just the same shape smaller. Also the narrower tyre is cutting into a narrower width of snow so you've the horizontal action to consider as well as the vertical one.
To my way of thinking, Pressure =Force/Area.Force stays the same (since the cars weight is constant - ignoring tyre weights as insignificant) So Contact area is inversely proportional to the pressure. If the tyre pressures are the same then the contact area will be the same.
OK some inaccuracy due to sidewall stiffness etc, but I'm not convinced that using a narrower tyre has any massive effect on contact area.
Contact area shape does make a difference to grip - look at the research on stiction and adhesive strength.
I'd be interested to see some research on different width tyres with the same profile.
But anyone who's driven on the modern tyres knows just how much grip they give but by gripping in a different way.
I'm sure that any tests will show that various conditions will give benefits to narrower taller tyres, and certainly higher profiles, usually on smaller rims to preserve rolling radius do give a better ride.
lostkiwi said:
Doesn't testing a winter tyre at 18 degrees make it all a bit pointless given they aren't designed to operate at that temperature?
We were testing a summer, all season, winter and the CrossClimate.Given all four tyre types get ran year round, I was quite happy it was warm!
lostkiwi said:
Doesn't testing a winter tyre at 18 degrees make it all a bit pointless given they aren't designed to operate at that temperature?
Given the discussions on here about running winters all year round I actually think it's a very useful test. Measuring the performance of winter rubber in warmer temperatures could be an eye-opener.I get that about the smaller wheels, but with my car being 4WD too, using the same size wheels/tyres in winter flavour is fine with me as I know they will still work even better than the summer tyres.
I ran Michelin Alpins last year and was very happy with them, but there wasn't actually much of a winter.
I ran Michelin Alpins last year and was very happy with them, but there wasn't actually much of a winter.
jon- said:
A small update to this, day one of testing was a binary test to see if the CrossClimates would keep you as mobile as a "proper" all season or winter tyre.
They did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cgtmmtsqFA
Impressive stuff.They did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cgtmmtsqFA
I just put Cross Climate's on our AWD Yeti, they feel like summer tyres at 18 degrees.
So if they are also 3PMSF rated and can climb Tamworth like that with FWD, going full winter tyres seems like a poor decision outside of living above the arctic circle.
charltjr said:
lostkiwi said:
Doesn't testing a winter tyre at 18 degrees make it all a bit pointless given they aren't designed to operate at that temperature?
Given the discussions on here about running winters all year round I actually think it's a very useful test. Measuring the performance of winter rubber in warmer temperatures could be an eye-opener.My V70 has been on Michelins PA4's (on its winter wheels) for 3 years now. They're a little squeaky when pushed in summer, but their wear rate is better than the P6000's it wore for several years and much better than the Avon Ice Touring ST's I ran from December to September one year - they seemed to dissolve when the weather warmed up.
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