Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
SlimJim16v said:
Nope. Mountain/Snowflake = reach minimum requirement for use in snow.
I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here.From Goodyear:
"How to recognize a true winter tire
The introduction of a legal marking related to performance has made the identification of winter tires more simple. The "Alpine" symbol, or the three-peak-mountain with snowflake (‘3PMSF’) came into force in November 2012 under EU Regulation 661/2009 on the Safety of Motor Vehicles. The 3PMSF can only be used if a tire passes a minimum required performance on snow - the so called “snow grip index”.
Slim Jim is correct. It's labelled M+S, clearly. That is not a winter tyre. That's not to say the Goodyear guff is wrong - it just doesn't apply to a Mud and Snow tyre, regardless of snowflake/pretty picture. I have the same rated tyres on my Jeep. They're actually summer GG M+S rated tyres!
popeyewhite said:
Slim Jim is correct. It's labelled M+S, clearly. That is not a winter tyre. That's not to say the Goodyear guff is wrong - it just doesn't apply to a Mud and Snow tyre, regardless of snowflake/pretty picture. I have the same rated tyres on my Jeep. They're actually summer GG M+S rated tyres!
If it's got the mountain snowflake it is a winter tyre.
If it's got M+S on it then it's got a meaningless symbol on it also. It makes no more difference then having Made in Uzbekistan written next to the mountain and snowflake.
If it's got the mountain snowflake it is a winter tyre and none of the other markings take that away.
I disagree chaps. You can have M+S tyres which don't have the 3PMSF marking, but you can't have a 3PMSF which isn't M+S.
It's the 3PMSF logo which is important in identifying it as a winter tyre.
From ETRMA-European Tyre & Rubber Manufacturers’ Association:
"DEFINING WINTER TYRE
From November 2012:
UNECE Regulation 117, to be implemented in the EU through Regulation (EC) 661/2009, requires for snow tyres a minimum level of performance threshold on snow (braking and traction). If the tyre meets the criteria, it can be marked with the new three-peak snowflake symbol.
However, "M+S" will also remain an allowed marking, but not linked by law to a minimum threshold in winter conditions."
From Michelin:
"Only tyres which have the Three Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol (a snowflake inside a mountain) have been tested for use in severe snow conditions.
What are “M+S” tyres?
“M+S” tyres, or Mud and Snow tyres, have been specially designed to improve your car’s performance in mud and fresh or melting snow. “M+S” relates to the tyre’s tread design which generally has solid grooves and/or the tread blocks are spaced further apart than those on standard tyres. Some “M+S” tyres are also all-season tyres, suitable for all year round, however their performance is not as high as designated summer tyres in hot weather or Cold Weather tyres in cold weather. Not all Mud and Snow tyres have been tested as Cold Weather tyres. On the other hand, all Cold Weather tyres carry the M+S mark."
It's the 3PMSF logo which is important in identifying it as a winter tyre.
From ETRMA-European Tyre & Rubber Manufacturers’ Association:
"DEFINING WINTER TYRE
From November 2012:
UNECE Regulation 117, to be implemented in the EU through Regulation (EC) 661/2009, requires for snow tyres a minimum level of performance threshold on snow (braking and traction). If the tyre meets the criteria, it can be marked with the new three-peak snowflake symbol.
However, "M+S" will also remain an allowed marking, but not linked by law to a minimum threshold in winter conditions."
From Michelin:
"Only tyres which have the Three Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol (a snowflake inside a mountain) have been tested for use in severe snow conditions.
What are “M+S” tyres?
“M+S” tyres, or Mud and Snow tyres, have been specially designed to improve your car’s performance in mud and fresh or melting snow. “M+S” relates to the tyre’s tread design which generally has solid grooves and/or the tread blocks are spaced further apart than those on standard tyres. Some “M+S” tyres are also all-season tyres, suitable for all year round, however their performance is not as high as designated summer tyres in hot weather or Cold Weather tyres in cold weather. Not all Mud and Snow tyres have been tested as Cold Weather tyres. On the other hand, all Cold Weather tyres carry the M+S mark."
Edited by RicksAlfas on Monday 8th February 16:26
popeyewhite said:
And the performance of a tyre with softer silicone under 7c. has no bearing on whether it is a winter tyre or not? I was under the impression all winters had softer rubber and non radial tread.
As long as the tyre meets the requirements of the test, presumably it can be made however the manufacturer wants.I don't know. I'm sure Jon will.
Bit of info here:
http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/winter-tyres-...
One can understand the head hitting wall image due to the flagrantly incorrect twaddle posted seemingly authoritatively.
The relationship between M&S markings and the TPMS marking was accurately described above by RicksAlfas.
In practice in order to obtain the TPMS approval under testing it's not just a matter of tread design but also construction and compound. Someone could design an M&S tyre with such hard compound that it would perform really well in off road abrasive conditions but be absolutely lethal on snow and ice.
The relationship between M&S markings and the TPMS marking was accurately described above by RicksAlfas.
In practice in order to obtain the TPMS approval under testing it's not just a matter of tread design but also construction and compound. Someone could design an M&S tyre with such hard compound that it would perform really well in off road abrasive conditions but be absolutely lethal on snow and ice.
RicksAlfas said:
Bit of info here:
http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/winter-tyres-...
I stand corrected. I never realised there were performance benchmarks - I thought it was purely about tyre design!http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/winter-tyres-...
popeyewhite said:
FiF said:
One can understand the head hitting wall image due to the flagrantly incorrect twaddle posted seemingly authoritatively.
Oh can one, you pompous arse.Somehow you managed to pick up the correct information after being show it 3 or 4 times though. Bully for you.
popeyewhite said:
FiF said:
One can understand the head hitting wall image due to the flagrantly incorrect twaddle posted seemingly authoritatively.
Oh can one, you pompous arse.
This bit copied from the link above should help explain -
NB
You may be wondering why we sometimes refer in this article to “tyres suited to winter conditions” rather than simply “winter tyres”.
This is because the 3PMSF mark is found not only on winter tyres, but also on certain all-year tyres that meet the specified requirements for adhesion on snow.
NB
You may be wondering why we sometimes refer in this article to “tyres suited to winter conditions” rather than simply “winter tyres”.
This is because the 3PMSF mark is found not only on winter tyres, but also on certain all-year tyres that meet the specified requirements for adhesion on snow.
johnwilliams77 said:
Jesus Christ......the last two pages...only PH
If you change your settings, it'll only be half a page and then it doesn't seem quite so bad.
It's not all bad news though. We've established that:
- Cross Climates work in the snow
- Black Yetis look cool
- You simply can't go round calling someone pompous
- The 3 Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol is what indicates a winter tyre
- It's warm down south
All good.
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