Winter tyres vol 2

Author
Discussion

jon-

16,496 posts

215 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
Even the best winter tyres will struggle against a summer tyre in the dry.

With current technology they have about 15 to 20 perfect longer braking on dry roads due to the block stiffness reduction needed to make winters work.

JonnyxM

185 posts

132 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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3c this morning, getting colder. Think I'll put the winters on this weekend, even though it's due to get warmer..

knitware

1,473 posts

192 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
Vanin said:
Unsurprisingly, in the snow, the summer tyre was useless, stopping over 31 metres longer than the best winter tyre in snow braking,
I don't believe that. I've read lots of posts on here and there are people who have been driving years and are as good at driving on snow as they are in the dry.

You should test these tyres again using 'propper' drivers! wink

Charlie Boy

165 posts

180 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Winter starts next week smile



this one is out in fantasy land but you never know :O


Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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jshell said:
Vanin said:
This is not the case with normal driving conditions and at motorway speeds the stopping distance between Summer and Winter is the difference between life and death.
Or, and here's a novel thought, people could just drive to the conditions. What about all those on cheapo ditch-finders?
Their cars explode in a fiery fireball as soon as they move off the drive wink


ETA - given that the purpose of winter tyres is supposed to be improved road safety why are some people actively looking forward to wintry conditions? confused

LeoSayer

7,299 posts

243 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
Vanin said:
I cannot see a Winter tyre stopping any quicker on sheet ice.
They do.

The jagged edges to the sipes dig into the ice.

blueg33

35,577 posts

223 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
LeoSayer said:
Vanin said:
I cannot see a Winter tyre stopping any quicker on sheet ice.
They do.

The jagged edges to the sipes dig into the ice.
He's right they do - tried it in the Alps surprisingly good stopping on ice, still needed snow chains on some of the steep bits though.

Free bit of advice - if you are going skiing and having a hire car, test fit the snow chains in daylight in a covered carpark. They are impossible to fit outside in the dark in a blizzard with no torch and no instructions

Bonefish Blues

26,445 posts

222 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
LeoSayer said:
Vanin said:
I cannot see a Winter tyre stopping any quicker on sheet ice.
They do.

The jagged edges to the sipes dig into the ice.
He's right they do - tried it in the Alps surprisingly good stopping on ice, still needed snow chains on some of the steep bits though.

Free bit of advice - if you are going skiing and having a hire car, test fit the snow chains in daylight in a covered carpark. They are impossible to fit outside in the dark in a blizzard with no torch and no instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH0tPRXKdSI

less than half the distance of summers, maybe less with current generation?

defblade

7,392 posts

212 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
wombleh said:
The one time I needed snow socks on my E46 I couldn't get them on as the car as there wasn't enough arch clearance for me to get my arms in.
I had to ask my passengers to get out while I fitted them once. New car is a Suzuki Grand Vitara though, so no issues there!

jkh112

21,889 posts

157 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
After scraping ice from the car windows this morning and seeing only 3 degrees indicated at midday I decided to fit my winter tyres today. The steering is not quite as sharp and the ride seems a little bit softer.
Am going to give the summer wheels and tyres a good clean tomorrow before I put the away.

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
He's right they do - tried it in the Alps surprisingly good stopping on ice, still needed snow chains on some of the steep bits though.

Free bit of advice - if you are going skiing and having a hire car, test fit the snow chains in daylight in a covered carpark. They are impossible to fit outside in the dark in a blizzard with no torch and no instructions
yes

Are we allowed to use snow socks in lieu of chains these days? In France that is.

blueg33

35,577 posts

223 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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tjlees said:
yes

Are we allowed to use snow socks in lieu of chains these days? In France that is.
Good question. Certainly at Les Arcs the signage stipulates snow chains.

I fitted the incorrectly in the dark and by the time I had got to the valley and could take them off I had trashed a tyre. Snow socks would be so much easier

RicksAlfas

13,355 posts

243 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Quick opinion chaps if you don't mind.
Which of these would you fancy on a Range Rover Classic?
It only does 1,500 miles a year, but most of it in the winter so I'll be leaving them on all year round. (shoot me now).

All very similar price fitted:

Hankook IceBear
Vredestein Wintrac4 Extreme
Continental CrossContact
Nokian WR-SUV
Bridgestone Blizzak

Thanks!

ncjones

256 posts

214 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
tjlees said:
yes

Are we allowed to use snow socks in lieu of chains these days? In France that is.
Good question. Certainly at Les Arcs the signage stipulates snow chains.

I fitted the incorrectly in the dark and by the time I had got to the valley and could take them off I had trashed a tyre. Snow socks would be so much easier
Legal in France, since 2010, but you may need to argue this with the Gendarme at the road block at the bottom of the pass. Winter tyres required in Austria.

jon-

16,496 posts

215 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
RicksAlfas said:
Quick opinion chaps if you don't mind.
Which of these would you fancy on a Range Rover Classic?
It only does 1,500 miles a year, but most of it in the winter so I'll be leaving them on all year round. (shoot me now).

All very similar price fitted:

Hankook IceBear
Vredestein Wintrac4 Extreme
Continental CrossContact
Nokian WR-SUV
Bridgestone Blizzak

Thanks!
Nokian. Latest 4x4 winter tyre test here: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2014-Autobild...

krallicious

4,312 posts

204 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Changed mine over yesterday. Still dry here but it is becoming very cold. Enjoying the slightly softer ride right now and hoping for a good dump of snow in the Black Forest before Christmas!

LeoSayer

7,299 posts

243 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
RicksAlfas said:
Quick opinion chaps if you don't mind.
Which of these would you fancy on a Range Rover Classic?
It only does 1,500 miles a year, but most of it in the winter so I'll be leaving them on all year round. (shoot me now).

All very similar price fitted:

Hankook IceBear
Vredestein Wintrac4 Extreme
Continental CrossContact
Nokian WR-SUV
Bridgestone Blizzak

Thanks!
I used Conti 4x4 Contact on my X5 and left them on all year.

They're M+S but no snowflake so not true winter tyres but they were great climbing snowy hills and felt utterly stable on dry motorways in the summer. Quiet too.

RicksAlfas

13,355 posts

243 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
jon- said:
Nokian. Latest 4x4 winter tyre test here: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2014-Autobild...
Thanks Jon. I don't do any off roading, but would they get me out of a wet Autumn field or leave me embarrassed?

WestyCarl

3,217 posts

124 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
ncjones said:
blueg33 said:
tjlees said:
yes

Are we allowed to use snow socks in lieu of chains these days? In France that is.
Good question. Certainly at Les Arcs the signage stipulates snow chains.

I fitted the incorrectly in the dark and by the time I had got to the valley and could take them off I had trashed a tyre. Snow socks would be so much easier
Legal in France, since 2010, but you may need to argue this with the Gendarme at the road block at the bottom of the pass. Winter tyres required in Austria.
Road Block???? I'm driving to Les Arcs (1950) in March, I have snow tyres and are considering chains or snowsocks. Never heard of roadblocks before.

TEKNOPUG

18,843 posts

204 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Vanin said:
In addition to the results below, Auto Bild included a summer tyre on test for comparison purposes.

Unsurprisingly, in the snow, the summer tyre was useless, stopping over 31 metres longer than the best winter tyre in snow braking, and unable to gain enough traction to even complete the snow handling tests!

Dry testing also presented no surprises, with the summer tyre convincingly besting every winter tyre on test, stopping 4.6 metres shorter than the best winter tyre in dry braking, with a similar advantage in dry handling. The compromises a winter tyre has to make for snow performance means with todays technology, a winter tyre will never outperform a summer tyre during dry braking.

Most interesting was the wet scoring. The summer tyre put on a good show during wet braking, beating fifteen of the winter tyres, and just beaten by the Pirelli winter for second place, but finished ninth in wet handling and was considerably down in the aquaplaning tests too. Unfortunately we don't know what temperatures the wet testing was carried out, but this marks an improvement for winter tyres over previous years.




I think firstly you have to define the type of snow. Driving on fresh snow as opposed to compacted snow makes a huge difference as does the temperature.
England has the worst conditions because the temperatures are around freezing more often than not in Winter. We have a fall of snow which melts, turns to ice overnight and melts again. I cannot see a Winter tyre stopping any quicker on sheet ice.
What this report does show rather alarmingly is that it a Summer tyre will stop over four metres earlier than a Winter tyre in the dry.
People are using Winter tyres all the year round but even if they only have them on for the Winter they will be driving 90% of the time on normal roads.
I would argue that in British intermediate Winter conditions most sensible drivers are going very steadily and giving large margins for error. Collisions are usually minor and more of an inconvenience than a life taker.
This is not the case with normal driving conditions and at motorway speeds the stopping distance between Summer and Winter is the difference between life and death.
Given the effort that Auto Bild go into when testing tyres, why do they not see it relevant to print the make and design of the summer tyre? For all we know, it could be some £300 cut-slick ultra-performance tyre, which also out brakes all the other summer tyres buy 4.6m....or it could be some £30 Vietnamese super-budget tyre....

Also, as you say, they don't bother to mention the ambient temps during the dry and wet braking or indeed the temp of the tyres themselves. Whilst I have no doubt that a good summer tyre will perform better than a good winter tyre at higher temps, the Auto Bild results are meaningless.

Surely the proper way to conduct this test would be to take the top 20 summer tyres from 2014 and include them in the tests with all the winter tyres, in a "winter" scenario. Then next summer, take the top 20 Winter tyres from 2014 and include them in the tests with all the summer tyres, in a a "summer" scenario. Then continue this format each year.

I guess the problem is that their idea of "winter" is testing in 6" of snow at -8 in the Alps, making an summer tyre testing redundant. However, i see no reason why they couldn't include "winters" in the their summer test the following year.