The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVI)

The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVI)

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Output Flange

16,793 posts

210 months

Saturday 27th December 2014
quotequote all
You win points for being the least unbiased person to review the options though.

Personally I'd rather another S4 to a B10 Touring. That said, I'm not hating the 530d. Yet.

m5wagon

510 posts

168 months

Saturday 27th December 2014
quotequote all
Stop arguing. You know an E34 M5 Touring is the answer.

E24man

6,654 posts

178 months

Saturday 27th December 2014
quotequote all
Output Flange said:
You win points for being the least unbiased person to review the options though.

Personally I'd rather another S4 to a B10 Touring. That said, I'm not hating the 530d. Yet.
We ALL have a preference, it's naive to think otherwise, I'd like to think I'm just balancing the arguement a little. I've got a fair amount of experience across E34's and E39's so like to offer an opinion - ultimately at the edge or on the track an E39 M5 would take the honours but as an everyday car Alpina offers a very credible option.

I always try and suggest driving a Switch-Tronic of any age before decrying it as a normal auto or 'slusher' and this was once again proven just last weekend.

We had an F11 530d for over a year with the 8-speed flappy-paddle 'sports' gearbox and whilst many adore the gearbox after coming from the E39 Alpina I hated it simply because there is no engine braking when changing down - even changing down 3 or 4 gears was pointless in terms of trying to obtain engine braking to balance the car. Last weekend I discovered an old friend had bought an uber-rare F11 Alpina B5 BiTurbo Touring - it has an 8 speed gearbox but modified by Alpina and as the owner showed me, has plenty of engine braking in any gear giving a huge amount of control over the car - it transforms the level of control and enjoyment of actually driving the car.

Having driven manual, auto and Switch-Tronic versions of most quick E34's and E39's I feel qualified to comment on the difference the gearbox can make to the package as a whole and the Switch-Tronic, due to its torque convertor lock up in every gear, makes the cars far closer to a manual and far more useable than most people would think.

The debate about the power outputs can rage on in the background ad infinitum.

Incidentally we've had a B6 S4 here for 60k miles too; it's hugely competent but very uninvolving and slower than the B10 V8, M5 and others. When buying it to replace a Griffith 500 we resisted the RS4 due to the even-greater-than-M parts tax. Cheap, hard interiors in the contemporary Audi's too.

Had an E34 M5 Touring too - fabulous power delivery and an awesome sound when on song but just too fragile an engine to be perfect and the double bork of the EDC can make them a pricey proposition.


Edited by E24man on Sunday 28th December 08:43

rejn

1,991 posts

221 months

Monday 29th December 2014
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Happy Christmas all!

That Mondial does look lovely and shiny.

Interesting fact from wikipedia: Mondial length = 4.5m, but 308GT4 length = 4.8m - I'd always thought the 308 was much smaller.

My browsing for something with 4 seats that will fit in our small parking space goes on...

I think around 4.3m is the max length we can fit, and Mrs rejn doesn't like 911s. Integrale is top of the list at the moment (a positively compact 3.9m).

4941cc

25,867 posts

205 months

Monday 29th December 2014
quotequote all
olly22n said:
ATM said:
Engine aside what is different on an m5 to a 540i. Is it just springs, dampers and lsd?
Len be be along in a min to explain, but the engine is a masterpiece in the funf. The whole car feels so far removed from its origins the changes feel extensive, even if they may not be.
yes

M5 beardage:
BMW M Registry said:

Though based on the same basic architecture as the regular aluminum-block 4.4-liter M62 powerplant fitted to the E39 540i, the S62 V8 engine has been extensively modified by BMW M in the following areas:

  • Increased bore to 94mm (from 92mm) and increased stroke to 89mm (from 82.7mm) for a total displacement of 4,941cc (up from 4,398cc).
  • Increased compression to 11.0:1 (from 10.0:1)
  • Individual electronically-controlled throttle bodies for each cylinder with M Driving Dynamics two-stage control (via the "Sport" button)
  • Double VANOS continuously-variable valve timing on both the intake and exhaust strokes
  • Siemens MSS 52 Motronic digital engine control system
  • Three-layer steel head gaskets
  • Dual air induction system
  • Modified cylinder heads
  • Hollow camshafts
  • High-capacity water pump
  • Duplex chain drive for the intake cams
  • Oil-cooled pistons unique to each cylinder bank
  • G-force-sensitive lubrication system with two scavenging pumps, one for each cylinder bank
  • Coolant to oil heat exchanger for engine cooling
  • Free-flow exhaust with dual catalytic converters and four exhaust tips
The S62 engine produces 400 hp (DIN) or 394 hp (SAE) at 6,600 rpm and 369 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 rpm. It is easily identified by its large central cam cover that carries the "M" logo and is further inscribed with "BMW M Power" against an artificial carbon fiber background.

All E39 M5s are equipped with a Getrag Type D six-speed manual gerabox with the following ratios: 4.23 (1), 2.53 (2), 1.67 (3), 1.23 (4), 1.00 (5), 0.83 (6). Though this same gearbox (and ratios) was also offered in the E39 540i, the E39 M5 drivetrain has three unique components: The clutch is reinfoced to cope with the added torque of the S62 powerplant and the rear differential utilizes a shorter 3.15:1 ratio and features a limited slip device (25 percent maximum locking).

The E39 M5 was the first M Series automobile to feature BMW's Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) which incorporates the Automatic Stability Control (ASC) traction control system but can also apply braking force to any wheel in order to help correct for understeer or oversteer. The system can be de-activated via a console-mounted button.

The suspension of the E39 M5 shares its basic aluminum-intensive MacPherson strut/multi-link design with that of the V8-powered E39 5 Series models but incorporates several specific changes from BMW M:

  • Reinforced steering gear, body mounts and thrust bushings
  • Unique front wheel bearings
  • Lower rear control arms from E39 Touring
  • Rear integral link from E38 750iL
  • Polyurethane auxiliary springs in place of rubber units
  • Steel balljoints in place of rubber rear suspension bushings
  • Specific spring rates with reduced spring height (0.9-inches shorter than standard E39 springs, 0.1-inches shorter than M-Technic E39 springs)
  • Specific shock valving
  • Thicker anti-roll bars front and rear

Like all V8-powered E39 5 Series models, the E39 M5 is equipped with a recirculating-ball steering system. However, the overall steering ratio has been reduced to 14.7:1 from 17.9:1. In addition, the E39 M5 features Servotronic vehicle-speed-sensitive power assist that provides two levels of resistance controlled via the console-mounted M Driving Dynamics button (informally known as the "Sport" button).

The E39 M5 is equipped with four-wheel vented disc brakes measuring 13.6-inches in diameter in front and 12.9-inches in diameter in the rear. On European-specification models, the front rotors are of a "floating" two-piece design for better heat dissipation.

ATM

18,082 posts

218 months

Monday 29th December 2014
quotequote all
4941cc said:
olly22n said:
ATM said:
Engine aside what is different on an m5 to a 540i. Is it just springs, dampers and lsd?
Len be be along in a min to explain, but the engine is a masterpiece in the funf. The whole car feels so far removed from its origins the changes feel extensive, even if they may not be.
yes

M5 beardage:
BMW M Registry said:

Though based on the same basic architecture as the regular aluminum-block 4.4-liter M62 powerplant fitted to the E39 540i, the S62 V8 engine has been extensively modified by BMW M in the following areas:

  • Increased bore to 94mm (from 92mm) and increased stroke to 89mm (from 82.7mm) for a total displacement of 4,941cc (up from 4,398cc).
  • Increased compression to 11.0:1 (from 10.0:1)
  • Individual electronically-controlled throttle bodies for each cylinder with M Driving Dynamics two-stage control (via the "Sport" button)
  • Double VANOS continuously-variable valve timing on both the intake and exhaust strokes
  • Siemens MSS 52 Motronic digital engine control system
  • Three-layer steel head gaskets
  • Dual air induction system
  • Modified cylinder heads
  • Hollow camshafts
  • High-capacity water pump
  • Duplex chain drive for the intake cams
  • Oil-cooled pistons unique to each cylinder bank
  • G-force-sensitive lubrication system with two scavenging pumps, one for each cylinder bank
  • Coolant to oil heat exchanger for engine cooling
  • Free-flow exhaust with dual catalytic converters and four exhaust tips
The S62 engine produces 400 hp (DIN) or 394 hp (SAE) at 6,600 rpm and 369 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 rpm. It is easily identified by its large central cam cover that carries the "M" logo and is further inscribed with "BMW M Power" against an artificial carbon fiber background.

All E39 M5s are equipped with a Getrag Type D six-speed manual gerabox with the following ratios: 4.23 (1), 2.53 (2), 1.67 (3), 1.23 (4), 1.00 (5), 0.83 (6). Though this same gearbox (and ratios) was also offered in the E39 540i, the E39 M5 drivetrain has three unique components: The clutch is reinfoced to cope with the added torque of the S62 powerplant and the rear differential utilizes a shorter 3.15:1 ratio and features a limited slip device (25 percent maximum locking).

The E39 M5 was the first M Series automobile to feature BMW's Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) which incorporates the Automatic Stability Control (ASC) traction control system but can also apply braking force to any wheel in order to help correct for understeer or oversteer. The system can be de-activated via a console-mounted button.

The suspension of the E39 M5 shares its basic aluminum-intensive MacPherson strut/multi-link design with that of the V8-powered E39 5 Series models but incorporates several specific changes from BMW M:

  • Reinforced steering gear, body mounts and thrust bushings
  • Unique front wheel bearings
  • Lower rear control arms from E39 Touring
  • Rear integral link from E38 750iL
  • Polyurethane auxiliary springs in place of rubber units
  • Steel balljoints in place of rubber rear suspension bushings
  • Specific spring rates with reduced spring height (0.9-inches shorter than standard E39 springs, 0.1-inches shorter than M-Technic E39 springs)
  • Specific shock valving
  • Thicker anti-roll bars front and rear

Like all V8-powered E39 5 Series models, the E39 M5 is equipped with a recirculating-ball steering system. However, the overall steering ratio has been reduced to 14.7:1 from 17.9:1. In addition, the E39 M5 features Servotronic vehicle-speed-sensitive power assist that provides two levels of resistance controlled via the console-mounted M Driving Dynamics button (informally known as the "Sport" button).

The E39 M5 is equipped with four-wheel vented disc brakes measuring 13.6-inches in diameter in front and 12.9-inches in diameter in the rear. On European-specification models, the front rotors are of a "floating" two-piece design for better heat dissipation.
Thanks

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

195 months

Monday 29th December 2014
quotequote all
Joesnow's lovely little alfa for sale, hugely entertaining readers car thread her;

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Coker

4,432 posts

174 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
ATM said:
That is it. Think I'll be in an auto after the current manual E46 M3 - I'm intending to do it in a year or two, but that is enough to make me think about doing it now.

As mentioned above, spending so little of my time at 8, 9 or 10/10ths, that really is all the car I'd ever need, most of the time.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

L100NYY

35,075 posts

242 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all

L100NYY

35,075 posts

242 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Regardless of £, regardless cool points and regardless of sheer performance I simply cannot think of any car that I hanker after more than......

http://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/littl...



Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 30th December 11:28

jeremyc

Original Poster:

23,335 posts

283 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
L100NYY said:
Regardless of £, regardless cool points and regardless of sheer performance I simply cannot think of any car that I hanker after more than......

http://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/littl...

This is also the answer to rejn's quest at a compact 3.05m long. biggrin

rejn said:
My browsing for something with 4 seats that will fit in our small parking space goes on...

I think around 4.3m is the max length we can fit, and Mrs rejn doesn't like 911s. Integrale is top of the list at the moment (a positively compact 3.9m).

L100NYY

35,075 posts

242 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Okay it's only a 2.0 and the a/c 'only' needs a re-gas (obvs) but I do want this.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...




Justayellowbadge

37,057 posts

241 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Another little 2.0.

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C555786



Reckon that's a banker.

L100NYY

35,075 posts

242 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
yes

4941cc

25,867 posts

205 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Justayellowbadge said:
Another little 2.0.

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C555786



Reckon that's a banker.
A Swiss one?

E30M3SE

8,465 posts

195 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
Ad says, 'from Italy',

E30M3SE

8,465 posts

195 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
L100NYY said:
Okay it's only a 2.0 and the a/c 'only' needs a re-gas (obvs) but I do want this.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...



From the barge thread,

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C569882#



been bought by someone on that thread too.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
That 208 is overpriced crap. The turbos are good, the non turbos are bloody useless. A very very disappointing car.

rejn

1,991 posts

221 months

Tuesday 30th December 2014
quotequote all
jeremyc said:
L100NYY said:
Regardless of £, regardless cool points and regardless of sheer performance I simply cannot think of any car that I hanker after more than......

http://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/littl...

This is also the answer to rejn's quest at a compact 3.05m long. biggrin

rejn said:
My browsing for something with 4 seats that will fit in our small parking space goes on...

I think around 4.3m is the max length we can fit, and Mrs rejn doesn't like 911s. Integrale is top of the list at the moment (a positively compact 3.9m).
Ha - what a brilliant idea - i was so proud when my (now 4-year old) daughter started to identify car brands - her first two were (in this order) Mini and Ferrari - I think the entire rejn family would be delighted to have a little old mini in the parking space. Great idea!!!
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