RE: VW confirms Polo R

[aka_kerrly]

b0rk said:

Depends on the variant if it's detuned from the (Golf) R version which I'd suspect it will be then, I'd guess mid 300's would be achievable software only based on what the tunners are hinting for Golf's/S3's
If it's the normal GTI version then 270ish software only or 300ish with hardware mods, still quite a weapon.

However the standard brakes will probably be as per usual so expect to see these littering the local hedgerows and ditches within weeks of first delivery, do Golf 340mm dia front discs and calipers fit?

I expect 323mm Brembo brakes will be fitted.

[LukeDM]

If this is as good as it sounds then its probably going to be the only car I would consider going on a finance deal for.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Colonial said:

va1o said:

Oh and I'd be more than happy if its DSG only. That gearbox is phenomenal and once you've experienced it there is no going back to Manual.

I happily bought my Golf R in a manual after trying DSG. The manual is a nicer gearbox to use and doesn't have ongoing reliability concerns.

what concerns? the very early boxes where a bit wafty but the later ones are pretty much as good as any other box, i have 70k faultless hard driven miles on duel clutch and the OH 40k

[FamilyDub]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Colonial said:

va1o said:

Oh and I'd be more than happy if its DSG only. That gearbox is phenomenal and once you've experienced it there is no going back to Manual.

I happily bought my Golf R in a manual after trying DSG. The manual is a nicer gearbox to use and doesn't have ongoing reliability concerns.

what concerns? the very early boxes where a bit wafty but the later ones are pretty much as good as any other box, i have 70k faultless hard driven miles on duel clutch and the OH 40k

Can't we just put aside reliability and just say some folk would like at least a choice of what 'box their Polo R would have...?

[abbotsmike]

Clivey said:

personally I'd like to see VW calibrate the Haldex system to send 50>% of the power rearward and use Saab-esque torque vectoring on the rear as well as XDS on the front…then we really will have something pretty close to a road-going WRC car. After watching last season and the Monte Carlo just gone, you can see that's faster and more fun.

The sort of thing that this Haldex controller does?

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/product_haldex.html

If the standard haldex controller could be easily and cheaply remapped it would be very interesting.

[Colonial]

Dave Hedgehog said:

what concerns? the very early boxes where a bit wafty but the later ones are pretty much as good as any other box, i have 70k faultless hard driven miles on duel clutch and the OH 40k

Might be more of an Australian thing given the climate here.

There has been a series of the clutch plates and mechatronics units failing.

It's a good gearbox and is getting better, but I would always prefer a manual.

[F1GTRUeno]

If they had any sense it would look exactly like the rally car.



Such a good looking thing.

[Clivey]

abbotsmike said:

The sort of thing that this Haldex controller does?

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/product_haldex.html

If the standard haldex controller could be easily and cheaply remapped it would be very interesting.

Yes; exactly the sort of thing a Haldex controller does…but it'd be nice if the standard car didn't need one.

Still, it sounds like this thing will be an absolute missile - especially once aftermarket tuners get hold of it. It's set to put a fair few noses out of joint IMHO and I hope Ford etc. respond. This could get interesting…

[Dave Hedgehog]

F1GTRUeno said:

If they had any sense it would look exactly like the rally car.



Such a good looking thing.

if the polo R and the golf R evo look like this, thats mine and my OHs next cars sorted

[George29]

F1GTRUeno said:

If they had any sense it would look exactly like the rally car.



Such a good looking thing.

I really hope they don't make it look like that.

Whilst the rally car looks good, I don't want to drive around in something that looks like that every day. I'd rather they make it look like a 1.2 Polo then you can just blend in but also really surprise people.

[scherzkeks]

abbotsmike said:

The sort of thing that this Haldex controller does?

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/product_haldex.html

If the standard haldex controller could be easily and cheaply remapped it would be very interesting.

The controller does not transfer "more than 50%" rearward. What it does is slightly increase the rate at which the stock model preemptively transfers torque up to lock. However, the Gen 4 and 5 stock controllers are already very good, and specifically calibrated for the cars. I've seen countless dynos here in DE that show these controllers send only marginally more power rearward under high load. In effect: snake oil.

You also need to remember that any rear bias on this system occurs via slip, so there is no power oversteer. The clutch prelocks at 50/50 and slip causes additional power transfer (creating a bias) to one axle or the other in that state -- emulating a 50/50 Torsen diff. A proper slow-in, fast out style will get you very high cornering speeds, and corner exits that no 2wd car in this class will touch.

Edited by scherzkeks on Wednesday 29th January 13:52

[ManOpener]

George29 said:

F1GTRUeno said:

If they had any sense it would look exactly like the rally car.



Such a good looking thing.

I really hope they don't make it look like that.

Whilst the rally car looks good, I don't want to drive around in something that looks like that every day. I'd rather they make it look like a 1.2 Polo then you can just blend in but also really surprise people.

Whereas I'm somewhere almost exactly between the two. The current Polo GTI gets is almost right, I'd just like an R32-style twin, or Leon K1-style single, centre exhaust, the red detailing on the grille replaced with black, a subtle hatch spoiler and wheel arches flared about 30mm each side to set it apart from the lesser models.

That said I do quite like the front bumper design on the rally car. Perhaps something similar but with corner fog lights?

Edited by ManOpener on Wednesday 29th January 13:52

[iloveboost]

Re: The power output. After some internet mining I've found that the Polo R will not make 250hp in the production car as it will have exactly the same engine as the Golf Gti with the performance pack and the 2014 Audi S1: 230ps/227hp. I'm sure you can swap a larger intercooler, turbo and injectors onto it and get it mapped for 340hp. Seems that just like the last Golf VAG will launch the Audi S1 this year and the Polo R next year and they will be the same car but the Polo R will be slightly cheaper with a slightly cheaper looking interior and image. I imagine the S1 will cost about 27K when it's launched and the Polo R will be a few thousand cheaper in 2015.
Also even though I think myself and others are being a bit cynical about these new cars (WHAT! PISTONHEADS BEING CYNICAL! MIND BLOWN!) I think that we can all agree another little performance car with potential is a good thing.

[va1o]

iloveboost said:

Re: The power output. After some internet mining I've found that the Polo R will not make 250hp in the production car as it will have exactly the same engine as the Golf Gti with the performance pack and the 2014 Audi S1: 230ps/227hp. I'm sure you can swap a larger intercooler, turbo and injectors onto it and get it mapped for 340hp. Seems that just like the last Golf VAG will launch the Audi S1 this year and the Polo R next year and they will be the same car but the Polo R will be slightly cheaper with a slightly cheaper looking interior and image. I imagine the S1 will cost about 27K when it's launched and the Polo R will be a few thousand cheaper in 2015.
Also even though I think myself and others are being a bit cynical about these new cars (WHAT! PISTONHEADS BEING CYNICAL! MIND BLOWN!) I think that we can all agree another little performance car with potential is a good thing.

Where did you find that out? 230PS is still good but a slight reduction on what we all really wanted!

Also it does indeed look like we won't see it until 2015, there's been a lot of press recently about the facelift Polo (http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/2014-volkswagen-polo-revealed/1228765? ) and they all say GTI isn't expected until 2015, which means the R won't come till after even that!

[JB!]

scherzkeks said:

The controller does not transfer "more than 50%" rearward. What it does is slightly increase the rate at which the stock model preemptively transfers torque up to lock. However, the Gen 4 and 5 stock controllers are already very good, and specifically calibrated for the cars. I've seen countless dynos here in DE that show these controllers send only marginally more power rearward under high load. In effect: snake oil.

You also need to remember that any rear bias on this system occurs via slip, so there is no power oversteer. The clutch prelocks at 50/50 and slip causes additional power transfer (creating a bias) to one axle or the other in that state -- emulating a 50/50 Torsen diff. A proper slow-in, fast out style will get you very high cornering speeds, and corner exits that no 2wd car in this class will touch.

Edited by scherzkeks on Wednesday 29th January 13:52

Old "gen 1" haldex from MK4 chassis cars could be fitted with control valves. no electronics at all, 50/50 at all times.

Basically tricked the clutch into being engaged permanantly.

[k-ink]

So this new Polo R may only have 5 bhp more than the original mk1 S3. Although maybe less weight...

Mk1 S3 (1999 onwards)
225bhp
Length 4,152 mm
Width 1,735 mm
Height 1,423 mm
1420 kg


Polo R
230bhp (apparently)
Length 3,952 mm
Width 1,682 mm
Height 1,454 mm
1325kg (TOTAL GUESS)

Not vastly different really, in all that time.

[b0rk]

aka_kerrly said:

I expect 323mm Brembo brakes will be fitted.

Cupra Brakes? can't recall these having ever shown up on something with a VW badge or an Audi badge for the matter since '03.
The platform front performance caliper is a single pot design from ATE to suit either 288 or 312 discs, VW may surprise and use something better but considering the bigger Golf R/S3 (340mm) and GTI (312mm) use TRW single pot calipers I'd be amazed. VW have under braked their performance models for years.

The A1 quattro only had 312mm discs for all £41k of the sale price..

[scherzkeks]

JB! said:

Old "gen 1" haldex from MK4 chassis cars could be fitted with control valves. no electronics at all, 50/50 at all times.

Basically tricked the clutch into being engaged permanantly.

I assume you mean the powertrak insert. For the old cars, the blue performance controller would be a better option, since it retains the intelligence of the system, but increases the rate of clutch lockup and torque transfer. These controllers do a lot for the reactive Gen 2 systems, but next to nothing for the Gen 4 and 5, as they are proactive.

[JB!]

scherzkeks said:

I assume you mean the powertrak insert. For the old cars, the blue performance controller would be a better option, since it retains the intelligence of the system, but increases the rate of clutch lockup and torque transfer. These controllers do a lot for the reactive Gen 2 systems, but next to nothing for the Gen 4 and 5, as they are proactive.

SQS Racing valve or something.

ALOT cheaper than a blue controller.

http://www.sqsracing.com/kategorie-produktu/29:hal...

Edited by JB! on Thursday 30th January 16:16

[ManOpener]

k-ink said:

So this new Polo R may only have 5 bhp more than the original mk1 S3. Although maybe less weight...

Mk1 S3 (1999 onwards)
225bhp
Length 4,152 mm
Width 1,735 mm
Height 1,423 mm
1420 kg


Polo R
230bhp (apparently)
Length 3,952 mm
Width 1,682 mm
Height 1,454 mm
1325kg (TOTAL GUESS)

Not vastly different really, in all that time.

The early S3 only made 210bhp, and the figures for the Polo R being banded about are around 1200kg. The current Polo GTI is 1,185kg and I imagine the R will weigh around the same. But you're right: in spirit they're quite similar though the Polo is a fair bit smaller.