How do VW (and Audi) do it?
Discussion
http://autos
te.com/topic/15627-choose-german-for...
me and a mate had this conversation the other week. Why does a vw owner say when something breaks its ok. Its a common problem. Ive done 50k and its 6 years old.
any other marque if the wipers need replacing after 20 years people jump up and down and scream bloody murder.
te.com/topic/15627-choose-german-for...me and a mate had this conversation the other week. Why does a vw owner say when something breaks its ok. Its a common problem. Ive done 50k and its 6 years old.
any other marque if the wipers need replacing after 20 years people jump up and down and scream bloody murder.
daemon said:
Ved said:
daemon said:
Ved said:
Marketing
where, in the last 20 years, have they marketed themselves as reliable?Sounds just like a Golf campaign
"God only knows" VW Van campaign
All imply solid, highly reliable (both in engineering and through ownership) and a class above in their brand. They're also still very much relying on the foundations that the 80s marketing laid down so effectively. Some things don't need to be shouted about if they're already planted in the market place.
Says more about the fact that at that time people thought golfs cost more than they could afford.
Solidity does not equal reliability.
The other ads show bomb proof build quality (Polos are touch as nails etc) and the 'God only knows' set was showing how the most dependable people in the most dependable jobs use their vans, such as the RAC, "if a recovery man choses it it must be good!"Haven't read the whole thread.
Mt FiL has had issues with his pension (failed provider) and has suffered financially for 10 years as a result. He's about to come into a decent, but in the scheme of things, smallish, lump sum. He has a 1997 A4 which is close to death, and it appears that once he has this forthcoming payout in the bank, the first thing on the shopping list will be a brand new A3. I've given up trying to persuade him that he is paying for style over substance, for marketing over actuality, that there are several better (at least financially, if not dynamically as well) options, etc etc - but he has swallowed the "Audi is premium and therefore good" pill and seemingly won't be swayed.
OTOH, if he's happy, that's the main thing, but I just think he could do a lot better with his money.
Mt FiL has had issues with his pension (failed provider) and has suffered financially for 10 years as a result. He's about to come into a decent, but in the scheme of things, smallish, lump sum. He has a 1997 A4 which is close to death, and it appears that once he has this forthcoming payout in the bank, the first thing on the shopping list will be a brand new A3. I've given up trying to persuade him that he is paying for style over substance, for marketing over actuality, that there are several better (at least financially, if not dynamically as well) options, etc etc - but he has swallowed the "Audi is premium and therefore good" pill and seemingly won't be swayed.
OTOH, if he's happy, that's the main thing, but I just think he could do a lot better with his money.
Don't have a problem with VW's but people I know who bang on about how they've bought something a 'cut above' the equivalent Ford etc do make me laugh ( even more so when one particular car needed a new DSG box). We're a 2 Honda family and while there are christmas cracker quailty plastics inside, nothing ever breaks and they never let us down. That's my definition of a quality car. They can keep their rubberised plastics and thunking doors.
I do fancy a Golf GTi one day though.....
I do fancy a Golf GTi one day though.....
DoctorX said:
a 'cut above' the equivalent Ford etc do make me laugh ( even more so when one particular car needed a new DSG box). We're a 2 Honda family and while there are christmas cracker quailty plastics inside, nothing ever breaks and they never let us down.
Yes, i have to agree. To me it was between the focus and the golf, but the focus to me looks like it has too long a wheel base, to the extent that it looks odd. So i went for the golf. I'm impressed by the economy i'm getting, and i do like to "tweek" at my cars which you can do easily with a golf - so far i've upgraded the alloys, black badges front and rear, and next month coilovers are going in. You could probably do the same with the focus, but say an i30, not so much.My sons honda impressed me. Totally reliable. The only issue i had was that i'd have been getting a significantly older civic than i got golf - and my remit was new or nearly new.
I've had a 2002 Seat,(which is mechanically identical to a VW Polo the same age) since my 17th birthday in 2008 and I have to say its been absolutely bomb proof reliability wise which is why I still have it. I'm planning on keeping it until its scrap now which could be a considerable amount of time still as its only done 80k. Even when it needs something doing its easy to work on and my mechanic friend does it ridiculously cheaply. I'm tempted once I can afford to get the insurance to buy something a bit more exciting such as an Alfa V6 or something similar but I'll probably keep the Seat as a back up for when I do city driving, need something economical or the other car is in the garage. So my experience of VW group cars has largely been positive.
My Mum's also had 2 Mazda 323s; a T plate and a 53 plate, both for around 4 years. Both were also incredibly reliable for 3 and a half years but were traded in when they developed the same engine management fault and had hundreds spent trying to rectify it but it kept coming back so were traded in at about 8 years old. So I'd partly agree with Mazdas being reliable, they must have both been fixed though as they're still on the DVLA computer.
I should also qualify my comments by saying that when I went to buy a used car recently at a small second hand dealership, the dealer said he used to work for the local VW garage as a mechanic and the number of problems was shocking, also said that the warranty company they used rated VW/Audi as number 1 for claims and Vauxhall Astra as most reliable car!
I do think VW's and Audis feel very well built and finished, better than my Mazda 6 without a doubt, but seem to suffer above average engine management light/electrical type faults. My Passat had a full service history and had been owned by a mature owner before me, it was a very clean car that drove very well, but during the 4 years of my ownership seemed to develop every electrical fault or other inherent flaw that the cars possibly come with. But the public still seem to equate VWs with reliability when the evidence does not back it up.
Every reliability survey rates the Jap cars, Honda, Mazda, Lexus, Toyota etc in the top 10 year on year, VW and Audi generally struggle to make it above half way... that surely says something isn't right.
I can only say that perceived quality, or a product that feels built like a tank is a very compelling package, add that to superb marketing and the british public's love of german white goods and you are onto a winner!!
I do think VW's and Audis feel very well built and finished, better than my Mazda 6 without a doubt, but seem to suffer above average engine management light/electrical type faults. My Passat had a full service history and had been owned by a mature owner before me, it was a very clean car that drove very well, but during the 4 years of my ownership seemed to develop every electrical fault or other inherent flaw that the cars possibly come with. But the public still seem to equate VWs with reliability when the evidence does not back it up.
Every reliability survey rates the Jap cars, Honda, Mazda, Lexus, Toyota etc in the top 10 year on year, VW and Audi generally struggle to make it above half way... that surely says something isn't right.
I can only say that perceived quality, or a product that feels built like a tank is a very compelling package, add that to superb marketing and the british public's love of german white goods and you are onto a winner!!
daemon said:
Grandfondo said:
They are by making that statement implying that their cars are getting better ie reliable.
Better cars generally. Better economy, better dynamics, etc. They're certainly in the top quartile of their group with the latest golf.You're reading something thats not there to be honest.
Grandfondo said:
And you were taken in by buying a Golf to do a long comute so economy and reliability would have been part of the buying decision ,yes?
I dont see how buying a class leading car is being "taken in"?Reliability wasnt a big thing as the car is under warranty anyway. I'll probably stick an extended warranty on it when it hits three years old - as i would any car if i was keeping it - and then review things then. If its been acceptable i'll drive on at it, if its not, i'll change it.
Economy came in to it as i know from previous experience how frugal VAG engines can be, and i've not been
disappointed. Averaging around 67mpg brim to brim so far.
I've done 10,000 trouble free miles in it with no issues.
Too big a company, too little f***s given mixed with marketing highlighting how elite they think they are. "Das Auto" and "Vorsprung Durch techniq".
Which is why I like the smaller brands, they still care about quality.
Recently managed to convince my Mother to switch from her 30 year VW loyalty, to a Skoda and have to say, the CS was soo much nicer than VW. They even offered part ex above the current market price on autotrader which amazed me tbh.
The quality has gone down, even in my fairly young memory her last Golf (1998 reg) which I forced her to part with once the breaks finally stopped working intermittently(!!), it suffered few other problems even at over 200k milage. Her 2010 polo on the other hand just seems to be falling apart by the day.
Which is why I like the smaller brands, they still care about quality.
Recently managed to convince my Mother to switch from her 30 year VW loyalty, to a Skoda and have to say, the CS was soo much nicer than VW. They even offered part ex above the current market price on autotrader which amazed me tbh.
The quality has gone down, even in my fairly young memory her last Golf (1998 reg) which I forced her to part with once the breaks finally stopped working intermittently(!!), it suffered few other problems even at over 200k milage. Her 2010 polo on the other hand just seems to be falling apart by the day.
Edited by Hiijinx on Sunday 26th January 12:01
I think VAG in particular do well as far as perception goes, is mainly due to their ads / strapline being consistent for years.
Who recalls the bloke and his missus driving thru the desert in a Golf and hearing a squeak and it turns out to be the bird's earring? Or the bloke who put everything on red when it came up black or that snotty model who dumps her fur and gems but keeps the key to the Golf?
Even the Polo viral with the bomber outside a cafe was along the same lines.
I can't recall Citroen's past TV ads, I think mainly cos there was a different angle / message they were trying to get across every couple of years or so. We've had the C5 with the whole german engineering / built by thing. I can recall the BX ads something along the lines of 'loves driving, hates garages' and a Peugeot 405 being driven thru a burning field - my BX 14 TGE never spent so much time in my local Citroen dealership having this, that or the other done - sure was a Friday Afternoon car.
And Audi is still going with their 'Vorsprung durch technik'.
Who recalls the bloke and his missus driving thru the desert in a Golf and hearing a squeak and it turns out to be the bird's earring? Or the bloke who put everything on red when it came up black or that snotty model who dumps her fur and gems but keeps the key to the Golf?
Even the Polo viral with the bomber outside a cafe was along the same lines.
I can't recall Citroen's past TV ads, I think mainly cos there was a different angle / message they were trying to get across every couple of years or so. We've had the C5 with the whole german engineering / built by thing. I can recall the BX ads something along the lines of 'loves driving, hates garages' and a Peugeot 405 being driven thru a burning field - my BX 14 TGE never spent so much time in my local Citroen dealership having this, that or the other done - sure was a Friday Afternoon car.
And Audi is still going with their 'Vorsprung durch technik'.
Hiijinx said:
Too big a company, too little f***s given mixed with marketing highlighting how elite they think they are. "Das Auto" and "Vorsprung Durch techniq".
Which is why I like the smaller brands, they still care about quality.
Recently managed to convince my Mother to switch from her 30 year VW loyalty, to a Skoda and have to say, the CS was soo much nicer than VW. They even offered part ex above the current market price on autotrader which amazed me tbh.
The quality has gone down, even in my fairly young memory her last Golf (1998 reg) which I forced her to part with once the breaks finally stopped working intermittently(!!), it suffered few other problems even at over 200k milage. Her 2010 polo on the other hand just seems to be falling apart by the day.
I'm guessing you don't know who Skoda are owned by.Which is why I like the smaller brands, they still care about quality.
Recently managed to convince my Mother to switch from her 30 year VW loyalty, to a Skoda and have to say, the CS was soo much nicer than VW. They even offered part ex above the current market price on autotrader which amazed me tbh.
The quality has gone down, even in my fairly young memory her last Golf (1998 reg) which I forced her to part with once the breaks finally stopped working intermittently(!!), it suffered few other problems even at over 200k milage. Her 2010 polo on the other hand just seems to be falling apart by the day.
Edited by Hiijinx on Sunday 26th January 12:01
Grandfondo said:
Reliability was not a big thing for a car that's doing 700 miles a week to get you to and from work.
I could understand that statement if i'd bought a TVR or a ropey old Alfa, but i bought a modern hatch under manufacturers warranty for another 2 years.I have no reason to believe that the golf is any more or less reliable than anything else on the market. I think the point of this thread was "why do people buy vw based on perceived reliability, when they're not very reliable any more?" - My point is i didnt buy it to get higher reliability than any other car.
I bought it because i believe they are dynamically among the best in class, and the price suited me.
I accept that things may go wrong with it, like things may go wrong with a focus or an astra. I'm not expecting any major bills as its under warranty, and as i already said, i'll extend the warranty as a matter of course, as i would with any car.
If the car were to break down every week leaving me stranded, then that would be of concern, but i've no reason to believe that is going to be the case, either through personal experience thus far, OR through forums and through what i see in the motor trade.
If the car needs any warranty work i can work from home or theres usually another car around here i can use.
Hubris said:
The gullable/impressionable/snobbish UK masses will always fall victim to marketing and in particular what's "cool".
Most folk are too lazy/stupid to form rational opinions without outside influences directing their thought process.
+1Most folk are too lazy/stupid to form rational opinions without outside influences directing their thought process.
And that goes for things other than cars too...
My experience:
Company cars (all of which did 60000 miles in 3 years):
Astra Coupe - faulty alarm unit.
Passat - no faults.
Fiesta - folding mirror stopped working.
Golf - timing chain and gears replaced, DSG mechatronic unit replaced, DSG clutch replaced (all at 37000)
BMW 320d - no faults so far, but a colleagues car needs a new rear caliper, new clutch and new steering rack (at about 15000 miles). Also, the BMW paint is permanently scarred by bird poo unless cleaned off instantly.
Private cars:
We have two Micras, a Picnic, a Civic and an MX-5 in the family. All have been very reliable, especially given the age and high mileage of most of them. The Micras and the MX-5 have had some rust repairs, but the Picnic (like the Previa we had before it) is incredibly rust free.
Bottom line: When it's my own money and I want something dependable, I buy Japanese.
Company cars (all of which did 60000 miles in 3 years):
Astra Coupe - faulty alarm unit.
Passat - no faults.
Fiesta - folding mirror stopped working.
Golf - timing chain and gears replaced, DSG mechatronic unit replaced, DSG clutch replaced (all at 37000)
BMW 320d - no faults so far, but a colleagues car needs a new rear caliper, new clutch and new steering rack (at about 15000 miles). Also, the BMW paint is permanently scarred by bird poo unless cleaned off instantly.
Private cars:
We have two Micras, a Picnic, a Civic and an MX-5 in the family. All have been very reliable, especially given the age and high mileage of most of them. The Micras and the MX-5 have had some rust repairs, but the Picnic (like the Previa we had before it) is incredibly rust free.
Bottom line: When it's my own money and I want something dependable, I buy Japanese.
daemon said:
Ved said:
daemon said:
Ved said:
Marketing
where, in the last 20 years, have they marketed themselves as reliable?Sounds just like a Golf campaign
"God only knows" VW Van campaign
All imply solid, highly reliable (both in engineering and through ownership) and a class above in their brand. They're also still very much relying on the foundations that the 80s marketing laid down so effectively. Some things don't need to be shouted about if they're already planted in the market place.
Says more about the fact that at that time people thought golfs cost more than they could afford.
Solidity does not equal reliability.
My uncle had a mk 4 Golf TDI that lunched itself, but the dealer quietly and efficiently dealt with the situation which included a new engine and lent a courtesy car throughout - he's recently upgraded to another one, but wouldn't consider anything else especially any "unreliable French-rubbish"
Momentofmadness said:
daemon said:
Ved said:
daemon said:
Ved said:
Marketing
where, in the last 20 years, have they marketed themselves as reliable?Sounds just like a Golf campaign
"God only knows" VW Van campaign
All imply solid, highly reliable (both in engineering and through ownership) and a class above in their brand. They're also still very much relying on the foundations that the 80s marketing laid down so effectively. Some things don't need to be shouted about if they're already planted in the market place.
Says more about the fact that at that time people thought golfs cost more than they could afford.
Solidity does not equal reliability.
Please keep up at the back
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