Aftermarket HID headlights - 35W or 55W
Discussion
r11co said:
That's just the thing though - you haven't. You've been asked twice to give it a go though.
It has been explained to you several times, and not just by me.Edited by r11co on Friday 7th February 21:29
NomduJour said:
HID bulbs illuminate via a longitudinal crescent-shaped arc which is hottest and brightest at the electrodes; halogen bulbs have a coiled metal filament which is usually transverse, produces a cylinder of light and is hottest and brightest in the centre. HIDs have much greater luminance than halogen. In a reflector designed for halogen some of this extra light will be going where it wouldn't with the bulb intended, even if the light source is in the same position in the housing. The different shape of the light source could also send light where it shouldn't (or not send it where it should). If the beam is scattered or distorted like this you may get the illusion of better illumination from brighter, whiter light in the foreground but actually worse vision in distance, where you need it.
Even if you were to get the HID bulb in exactly the same position as the halogen bulb, you still have a fundamentally different light source - it is not a single point source in either case. The reflector (or lens, or projector) is designed specifically for both the position and the particular characteristics of the light source. A reflector designed for an HID bulb would obviously not be the same as one designed for a halogen bulb (clearly demonstrated by the fact that OEM HID lights do not just use halogen housings), hence sticking an HID source in a halogen reflector will always be at best a compromise.
(feel afraid to ask!)VeeDub Geezer said:
I'm a convert to Osram Nightbreaker (plus) bulbs.
I've heard the hype for years but only recently took the plunge after seeing them come up on eBay at £12.95 delivered a pair.
Made a massive and noticeable difference to my car's light output.
Depending on the car, you may also benefit from fitting relays to the light loom. The difference with a relayed loom on my Corrado was night and day. Literally.
This is all you need to know. I've heard the hype for years but only recently took the plunge after seeing them come up on eBay at £12.95 delivered a pair.
Made a massive and noticeable difference to my car's light output.
Depending on the car, you may also benefit from fitting relays to the light loom. The difference with a relayed loom on my Corrado was night and day. Literally.
Just as a point of interest, and sorry if it has been mentioned in this long thread already, washers and levellers are no longer required for EU type approval as long as the lumens output is below a certain level.
Therefore you can expect to see "Xenon lite" and "Xenon powerful" options on many cars in future.
Therefore you can expect to see "Xenon lite" and "Xenon powerful" options on many cars in future.
NomduJour said:
What on earth does a cursory MOT inspection prove, other than the lights are shining in roughly the right direction when shone at a wall six feet away?
NomduJour said:
I know exactly how the MOT tests headlamps.
You may know a lot about headlamp engineering, but please leave the MOT test to testers, as it seems that your knowledge of the MOT alignment check is somewhat lacking.The MOT test is often the only thing that prevents you from encountering unsafe vehicles on the road.
I've tested cars with HIDs in Halogen housings, some have failed and some have passed with as good a beam image and alignment as if the lamp was fitted with Halogen bulbs. Until they make combinations of certain light sources and headlamp types a fail, I'll have to keep passing them.
mcford said:
The MOT test is often the only thing that prevents you from encountering unsafe vehicles on the road.
Of course, and I don't think there's been any question that HIDs in halogen lights can pass the aim/pattern test. What the MOT headlamp check can't do is measure the actual performance of the lights.V8forweekends said:
r11co said:
Not good enough!
Put up or shut up - explain why your assertions are right despite the MOT passes or accept you are wrong.
MOT passes can be obtained for a variety of questionable items that should in theory fail - empty DPFs are one, and given the massive number of illegal number plates there are (including rears on bikes), I can't believe everyone is swapping them just for MOT time - the fact is, some MOT folk are "friendly" and some are, frankly, ignorant (I have anecdotal experience - related to HIDs)Put up or shut up - explain why your assertions are right despite the MOT passes or accept you are wrong.
http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/MOT%20Changes%20-%...
"This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID
lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are
widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers
that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied
in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT
test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp
cleaning and self-levelling systems"
The fact that these things are being incorrectly passed isn't a proof that they aren't annoying and dazzling to others.
Edited by V8forweekends on Friday 7th February 13:52
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s01000701.htm
NomduJour said:
It has been explained to you several times, and not just by me.
Even if you were to get the HID bulb in exactly the same position as the halogen bulb, you still have a fundamentally different light source - it is not a single point source in either case. The reflector (or lens, or projector) is designed specifically for both the position and the particular characteristics of the light source.
A reflector designed for an HID bulb would obviously not be the same as one designed for a halogen bulb (clearly demonstrated by the fact that OEM HID lights do not just use halogen housings), hence sticking an HID source in a halogen reflector will always be at best a compromise.
But the point which has been made several times in this thread and you have glossed over is that various retrofit HID systems have been engineered with masks and/or secondary reflectors and/or shortened tubes to take into account the differences you mention (HxC and HxCR designated bulbs). The people who make them are not stupid - it is in their interests to sell a product that works and is not regarded as dangerous or a menace in order to maintain demand.Even if you were to get the HID bulb in exactly the same position as the halogen bulb, you still have a fundamentally different light source - it is not a single point source in either case. The reflector (or lens, or projector) is designed specifically for both the position and the particular characteristics of the light source.
A reflector designed for an HID bulb would obviously not be the same as one designed for a halogen bulb (clearly demonstrated by the fact that OEM HID lights do not just use halogen housings), hence sticking an HID source in a halogen reflector will always be at best a compromise.
As has been said already also - any problems comes down to the end user choosing and/or incorrectly fitting an inappropriate system for their lamps, and like many issues were a small minority of people are not responsible enough to do something properly the pitchfork brigade want to ban the activity altogether rather than believe that there are people sensible enough to get it right.
Edited by r11co on Sunday 9th February 08:07
Are there any OEM HID's that use the "r" suffix bulbs?
It may be that the "r" bulbs are a bit less light efficient due to the extra masking, and so the OEMs design their HID housings for non-r bulbs.
Can anyone post a pic of a good-quality "r" HID bulb so we can look at the masking?
ETA Just to make it clear, I am not advocating using non-r bulbs, just interested to see what part of the capsule they mask off.
It may be that the "r" bulbs are a bit less light efficient due to the extra masking, and so the OEMs design their HID housings for non-r bulbs.
Can anyone post a pic of a good-quality "r" HID bulb so we can look at the masking?
ETA Just to make it clear, I am not advocating using non-r bulbs, just interested to see what part of the capsule they mask off.
Edited by AW111 on Monday 10th February 08:36
NomduJour said:
r11co said:
It has been explained to you several times, and not just by me.
NomduJour said:
HID bulbs illuminate via a longitudinal crescent-shaped arc which is hottest and brightest at the electrodes
HID Bulbs illuminate by a narrow fan shape hottest at the apex. If you're going to get technical, please show us your sources.
Edited by ouch on Monday 10th February 11:22
Edited by ouch on Monday 10th February 11:23
ouch said:
Um, wrong I'm afraid. See my post on tuesday 4th feb (page 3 of this epic thread)
HID Bulbs illuminate by a narrow fan shape hottest at the apex. If you're going to get technical, please show us your sources.
Not sure what your example is getting at. Are you suggesting that cars use xenon short-arc or mercury-vapour bulbs? They use metal-halide bulbs where the two electrodes are similar. The arc is crescent-shaped because heat causes it to rise in the centre.HID Bulbs illuminate by a narrow fan shape hottest at the apex. If you're going to get technical, please show us your sources.
Edited by ouch on Monday 10th February 11:22
Edited by ouch on Monday 10th February 11:23
More accurately luminance (cd/m2) not temperature, but as below (compared with halogen):
AW111 said:
Are there any OEM HID's that use the "r" suffix bulbs?
It may be that the "r" bulbs are a bit less light efficient due to the extra masking, and so the OEMs design their HID housings for non-r bulbs.
Can anyone post a pic of a good-quality "r" HID bulb so we can look at the masking?
ETA Just to make it clear, I am not advocating using non-r bulbs, just interested to see what part of the capsule they mask off.
It may be that the "r" bulbs are a bit less light efficient due to the extra masking, and so the OEMs design their HID housings for non-r bulbs.
Can anyone post a pic of a good-quality "r" HID bulb so we can look at the masking?
ETA Just to make it clear, I am not advocating using non-r bulbs, just interested to see what part of the capsule they mask off.
Edited by AW111 on Monday 10th February 08:36
I think some of you are assuming that all manufacturers have cutting edge technology to produce the optimum headlamp.
I think you assume too much!
If they did, they would also make their own bulb and specify that you should use only their bulb.
Have you seen the differences between halogen bulbs of the same type?
I took a GE H4 bulb out of my car the other day and it was a much larger bulb than the Osram I was replacing it with and the filament location was several mm's different to the GE one.
I would think that most headlamp manufacturers realise these differences and would design a headlamp that gives a "fit for purpose" spread of light and pattern for a range of differing sizes of bulb.
I think you assume too much!
If they did, they would also make their own bulb and specify that you should use only their bulb.
Have you seen the differences between halogen bulbs of the same type?
I took a GE H4 bulb out of my car the other day and it was a much larger bulb than the Osram I was replacing it with and the filament location was several mm's different to the GE one.
I would think that most headlamp manufacturers realise these differences and would design a headlamp that gives a "fit for purpose" spread of light and pattern for a range of differing sizes of bulb.
I think that one wally in particular has a rather ignorant point of view (that every car that dazzles has aftermarket HID lamps) and he is arguing that he is right principally, and using Google to back this up with little, if any, real knowledge or experience of his own.
I have found it useful, for identifying another forum wally.
I have found it useful, for identifying another forum wally.
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