RE: In defence of the paddle shifter: PH Blog
Discussion
The Pits said:
Very well put.
I think with Harris it's a 'Porsche can do no wrong' thing. I've never read a single criticism from him regarding anything Porsche does, he even waxed lyrical about the Panamera Diesel! I don't think that's very healthy. No car is beyond criticism.
But if there was a last word on the subject I think it should be yours. Excellent post.
And for a few minutes the xenophobia and rank generalisations seemed to have gone, but then they returned.I think with Harris it's a 'Porsche can do no wrong' thing. I've never read a single criticism from him regarding anything Porsche does, he even waxed lyrical about the Panamera Diesel! I don't think that's very healthy. No car is beyond criticism.
But if there was a last word on the subject I think it should be yours. Excellent post.
Edited by The Pits on Tuesday 11th February 16:09
If you're going to make sweeping generalisations about people's work and opinions, at least have the decency to know what they've said/written on subjects before you spout. Or, just phone our friends in Stuttgart and ask how many times my opinion has angered them. The answer will be 'many'. Actually, you probably have issues with phoning the Fatherland.
Shot one group test video with a 911 last year. It came last. Wasn't kind to Cayman 2.7 here.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am now alleged to be on the pay-roll of: AMG, BMW, Ford, Renault, Audi, Ferrari, McLaren and many others.
Please go away and only come back when you have something sensible to say.
It's worth remembering that this is just an internet forum. Anyone can post here, and there views may be different for yours. That doesn't make your view wrong, or their views biased. For example, my favourite colour is yellow. You may be a blue person.
It's also worth remembering that the vast majority of posters, me included, simply have not the means to actually purchase a new Porsche (or whatever OEM you support etc). The reason the 911 is now PDK only is because they were only selling PDK versions. You may not like that, but frankly, tough. It's the people who buy 911s that set what they become, no matter what might be gained or lost due to that.
Such is the way of the world.....
It's also worth remembering that the vast majority of posters, me included, simply have not the means to actually purchase a new Porsche (or whatever OEM you support etc). The reason the 911 is now PDK only is because they were only selling PDK versions. You may not like that, but frankly, tough. It's the people who buy 911s that set what they become, no matter what might be gained or lost due to that.
Such is the way of the world.....
Well said, people b
hing about a car they will never own being PDK only is pathetic. If the people who bought the cars wanted manual cars then Porsche would build them, luckily they don't pay attention to all of the dreamers and moaners in the world.
My opinion - the people who want a raw 911 GT3 will buy an older one, the people who want a modern one with all the toys will buy a new one. Both camps are happy, apart from the large number who complain about everything but were never in the market anyway!
hing about a car they will never own being PDK only is pathetic. If the people who bought the cars wanted manual cars then Porsche would build them, luckily they don't pay attention to all of the dreamers and moaners in the world.My opinion - the people who want a raw 911 GT3 will buy an older one, the people who want a modern one with all the toys will buy a new one. Both camps are happy, apart from the large number who complain about everything but were never in the market anyway!
The Crack Fox said:
I can't be arsed to dig but someone has upset 'arris it seems, lots of unpleasant sweary nonsense on his twitter feed about this thread. 
Tempers can flare when someone writes nonsense about your professional activity.At least if someone were to write nonsense like that it could be better timed than coming right after Harris praising the P1 way above the 918.
But I suppose that fits the tunnel vision picture.
The Crack Fox said:
I can't be arsed to dig but someone has upset 'arris it seems, lots of unpleasant sweary nonsense on his twitter feed about this thread.
Perhaps it's because someone made some sweeping statements about his impartiality and journalistic integrity without doing their research first, all the while hiding behind a screen name. I'd be quite cross if that happened to me once, let alone every time I publish an article that is complimentary about a company's product.
Ok then Chris, money where your mouth is, lets have some criticisms of the 991 GT3. I haven't read any yet.
And while I've caught you in such a good mood, perhaps you could answer the question that everyone on PH is ducking.
The 991 GT3, as you pointed out in your recent video, has significant traction advantages over the front engined cars thanks to its rear engine placement.
Out of genuine interest are there any dynamic disadvantages that come with that? None are mentioned. Normally such a marked difference means you have to pay for it in some other respect. If this isn't the case then it must be the optimum configuration and more sports car makers should consider mounting their engines aft of the rear axle. Yet no-one seems in favour of that. This is puzzling.
Just because I choose not to spend my spare time boosting the German economy does not make me xenophobic. Presumably I must be homophobic too because I don't spend my weekends shagging blokes?
Given all the adulation you recieve on here I would have hoped you'd be able to deal with the very rare critical post with a little more grace.
But a bit of cyber bullying on Twitter?! Oh dear, worse than being xenophobic surely?
And while I've caught you in such a good mood, perhaps you could answer the question that everyone on PH is ducking.
The 991 GT3, as you pointed out in your recent video, has significant traction advantages over the front engined cars thanks to its rear engine placement.
Out of genuine interest are there any dynamic disadvantages that come with that? None are mentioned. Normally such a marked difference means you have to pay for it in some other respect. If this isn't the case then it must be the optimum configuration and more sports car makers should consider mounting their engines aft of the rear axle. Yet no-one seems in favour of that. This is puzzling.
Just because I choose not to spend my spare time boosting the German economy does not make me xenophobic. Presumably I must be homophobic too because I don't spend my weekends shagging blokes?
Given all the adulation you recieve on here I would have hoped you'd be able to deal with the very rare critical post with a little more grace.
But a bit of cyber bullying on Twitter?! Oh dear, worse than being xenophobic surely?
The Crack Fox said:
I can't be arsed to dig but someone has upset 'arris it seems, lots of unpleasant sweary nonsense on his twitter feed about this thread.
Well, now that you're embarking on your own journalistic adventures (good luck), you'll soon have people accusing you, baselessly, of all sorts of bias, corruption and the like. And, just occasionally, you'll bite - because we're all human. And when you do bite on PH, you might do it in a fairly mild way like I did above. And on your own twitter feed, you might do it with a little choice saxon - pretty mildly, and with a jokey exclamation mark signalling that you know it's all pretty pointless.And when you do that, I'll pop-up on here and have a small dig at you. But not as regularly as you dig at me, because I haven't the time or inclination!
The Pits said:
Ok then Chris, money where your mouth is, lets have some criticisms of the 991 GT3. I haven't read any yet.
And while I've caught you in such a good mood, perhaps you could answer the question that everyone on PH is ducking.
The 991 GT3, as you pointed out in your recent video, has significant traction advantages over the front engined cars thanks to its rear engine placement.
Out of genuine interest are there any dynamic disadvantages that come with that? None are mentioned. Normally such a marked difference means you have to pay for it in some other respect. If this isn't the case then it must be the optimum configuration and more sports car makers should consider mounting their engines aft of the rear axle. Yet no-one seems in favour of that. This is puzzling.
Just because I choose not to spend my spare time boosting the German economy does not make me xenophobic. Presumably I must be homophobic too because I don't spend my weekends shagging blokes?
Given all the adulation you recieve on here I would have hoped you'd be able to deal with the very rare critical post with a little more grace.
But a bit of cyber bullying on Twitter?! Oh dear, worse than being xenophobic surely?
Sorry old bean, what you've written in the past suggests you can't sustain healthy debate. Very rare critical post? You've accused me of all sorts for a long, long time. You once referenced WWII in a discussion about Porsche. That kind of says it all. Go drive a 991 GT3 and work it out for yourself.And while I've caught you in such a good mood, perhaps you could answer the question that everyone on PH is ducking.
The 991 GT3, as you pointed out in your recent video, has significant traction advantages over the front engined cars thanks to its rear engine placement.
Out of genuine interest are there any dynamic disadvantages that come with that? None are mentioned. Normally such a marked difference means you have to pay for it in some other respect. If this isn't the case then it must be the optimum configuration and more sports car makers should consider mounting their engines aft of the rear axle. Yet no-one seems in favour of that. This is puzzling.
Just because I choose not to spend my spare time boosting the German economy does not make me xenophobic. Presumably I must be homophobic too because I don't spend my weekends shagging blokes?
Given all the adulation you recieve on here I would have hoped you'd be able to deal with the very rare critical post with a little more grace.
But a bit of cyber bullying on Twitter?! Oh dear, worse than being xenophobic surely?
Sorry this thread has rather lost its direction.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Ok on the N/A thing you have a valid point but there's nothing anyone can do about that short of getting the world to abandon the current drive to reduce emissions.On the PDK thing I say car companies are there to make money, they do that by making things people want to buy. Therefore if they build cars people don't want they don't make money and go the way of MG, TVR etc. Porsche is making a hell of a lot of money so must be doing something right? It might not be what everyone wants but then if it was what the majority wanted someone else would make a 911 GT3 manual only rival and make a lot of £££
I think an interesting point to be made is that in 2013, cars are really more like cookery than ever before! They are now made up from a collection of ingredients all sourced from the same place. In that 911/AMG/AML test for example, every car tested had an engine controller from Bosch for example.
As such, it is the way the cars are blended, how the compromises are solved and biased during development that make those cars what they are, rather than the actual basic ingredients used to make them.
There are no truely bad cars any longer, either. Automotive journalism sprang up as a way to inform buyers of the "Best" car, which really did mean the one that broke down the least, was the quietest, the one where 2nd gear had syncromesh and that one had two, yes TWO exterior mirrors etc! Fast forward to 2013 and all cars pretty much do everything. They all have good features, they all are safe, fast, economical and well built. The differences are now vanishingly small between them, choice of the one to be your favorite starts to become a non rational, non absolute choice. It's entertainment primarily.
At this point the internet forum rears it's (potentially) ugly head.
So to say CH is 'biased' towards any particular manufacturer is frankly a bit silly. I'm sure he has a favorite manufacturer (as no doubt does everyone else reading this, for complex emotional/lifestyle reasons) however, a manufacturer that consistently builds cars that suit him and his likes. Now, considering he is a "fast car" man constantly reviewing cars from a manufacturer famed, by the vast majority of reviewers, for consistently making the best sports cars of the last 50 years is not exactly unexpected now is it.
He has actually driven those cars (unlike the vast majority of forumites) and on that day, the 911 was his favorite. Surely we shouldn't hold that against him?
As such, it is the way the cars are blended, how the compromises are solved and biased during development that make those cars what they are, rather than the actual basic ingredients used to make them.
There are no truely bad cars any longer, either. Automotive journalism sprang up as a way to inform buyers of the "Best" car, which really did mean the one that broke down the least, was the quietest, the one where 2nd gear had syncromesh and that one had two, yes TWO exterior mirrors etc! Fast forward to 2013 and all cars pretty much do everything. They all have good features, they all are safe, fast, economical and well built. The differences are now vanishingly small between them, choice of the one to be your favorite starts to become a non rational, non absolute choice. It's entertainment primarily.
At this point the internet forum rears it's (potentially) ugly head.
So to say CH is 'biased' towards any particular manufacturer is frankly a bit silly. I'm sure he has a favorite manufacturer (as no doubt does everyone else reading this, for complex emotional/lifestyle reasons) however, a manufacturer that consistently builds cars that suit him and his likes. Now, considering he is a "fast car" man constantly reviewing cars from a manufacturer famed, by the vast majority of reviewers, for consistently making the best sports cars of the last 50 years is not exactly unexpected now is it.
He has actually driven those cars (unlike the vast majority of forumites) and on that day, the 911 was his favorite. Surely we shouldn't hold that against him?
Max_Torque said:
There are no truely bad cars any longer, either.
...
Fast forward to 2013 and all cars pretty much do everything. They all have good features, they all are safe, fast, economical and well built. The differences are now vanishingly small between them, choice of the one to be your favorite starts to become a non rational, non absolute choice. It's entertainment primarily.
I think we probably COULD find some bad cars, but probably not for sale in this country, thankfully....
Fast forward to 2013 and all cars pretty much do everything. They all have good features, they all are safe, fast, economical and well built. The differences are now vanishingly small between them, choice of the one to be your favorite starts to become a non rational, non absolute choice. It's entertainment primarily.
Ref. 2013 - I think the issue today is one of isolation - the driver of a current car doesn't really have much connection with the road or with what the car is doing, and even less with fellow road-users.
Drive one of these 'bad old cars', even from the 1980s, and the unassisted steering is surprisingly manageable once you get used to it and delivers detail the 2013 driver doesn't even realise exists (hell, good 1990s hyd-PAS did too). Enter a corner optimistically and the chassis will give you options about which end you want to sort it out with, but it's firmly up to YOU to do it, not the (non-existent) electronics. And the 200-300kg LESS that the equivalent old car weighs makes a stunning difference to the way the car rides and handles, as do the substantially lower grip levels. Turn-in is of course slower on the higher-profile and narrower tyres, but do we need to drive like Jason Plato or Gordon Shedden???
...which is to say that for 90+% of buyers old cars are unequivocally worse, but for a few people such an experience is far richer and more involving, more entertaining. MX-5 syndrome, so-to-speak...
The isolation FROM other road users is to my mind more pernicious - everyone now has a/c so keeps the windows up, and good NVH means less noise penetrates the bodywork. Add-in better audio systems, mobile phones etc. and the car is now a luxury cocoon for the driver - using any window bar the front one is optional. Makes you think self-driving cars MIGHT be a good idea (as long as they're not compulsory...)
Chris Harris said:
Sorry old bean, what you've written in the past suggests you can't sustain healthy debate. Very rare critical post? You've accused me of all sorts for a long, long time. You once referenced WWII in a discussion about Porsche. That kind of says it all. Go drive a 991 GT3 and work it out for yourself.
Sorry this thread has rather lost its direction.
Total cop out! Sorry this thread has rather lost its direction.
Since when have you ever tried to engage in 'healthy debate' with me?!
It seems pretty clear now that your main objection is with something I have posted some time ago. If I made some comment about WW2, it was a wind-up, most likely after one or two, most definitely after a torrent of personal abuse for having the sheer temerity to criticize the 911, oh, and I'm sure there was a 'jokey exclamation mark signalling that you know it's all pretty pointless' in there somewhere.
If you have issues with something that I posted years ago then why not man-up and send me a personal mail (preferably nearer the time), rather than slag off someone you have never met, know nothing about, yet feel inclined to humiliate to your 62,000+ 'followers' on Twitter? You should be squirming with shame for that.
I suspect I am bearing the brunt of your resentment towards people who know nothing about how your profession works yet cast aspersions about how it might work. Equally, by bravely stepping into an arena where readers can answer back, you are occasionally on the receiving-end of some frustration towards car journalism in general but honestly the criticism you receive here is verging on the insignificant. This suggests an ego a bit too fragile for this environment.
I know its not a car journalist's job to help struggling British car manufacturers but neither is it to help crushingly dominant German car makers with such obvious zeal.
The cult of the 911 is thriving, you are its grand wizard, Porsche fanboys have taken over Pistonheads (once upon a time a TVR forum), Porsche are doing to sports cars what Starbucks have done to independent coffee shops, alternatives are dwindling, the profits are rolling in and the SUVs are rolling out. None of this is your fault of course. It is incorrect of me if I have suggested otherwise. But could you not imagine that it is a fairly depressing picture for anyone who is cursed with a preference for sports cars made in the UK?
I'm done here, many of you will be pleased to know.
You can all rejoice gleefully about the new Macan in peace.
Goodbye cruel forum.
The Pits said:
alternatives are dwindling
Are they? A quick perusal of sports cars, suggests we've never had so many to choose from, never had so many good ones, and never had such a wide range of prices to suit every pocket!From pocket hatches (Clio, 208, Fiesta ST, Mini Cooperss etc), to full on hot hatches (Megane, Focus ST, Golf Gti, S1, etc) to affordable rwd sports cars (Gt86, Mx5, low end caterhams) to mid range performance sports hatches (BMW 135i, Cayman, Elise, A45, S3) to higher end super sports cars (Exige, 911, M3) to Ultra performance cars (Exige GT, Mono, high end caterhams, Atoms, to expensive premium cars (911 GT3, M3 GT/cups, AMG sports models) to high end premium cars (911 Turbo, Gallardo, 458) to the new super and hyper cars (P1, 'egg, Noble M600)
So other than those (and there are still a lot of cars not mentioned in that list) what have the manufacturers ever done for us???
;-)
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