Alfa 159 as a daily commuter?
Discussion
LGriffiths88 said:
heart says an alfa, the head says something like a 2 litre well specced focus!
it's the reliability that puts me off the alfa! such a pickle!
what other suggestions have people got?
Honestly, consider other models , there's plenty to chose from but give the Alfa chance. There are a lot of people commenting on this forum that clearly have very little knowledge of Alfa. My advice would be go on to Alfa Owner, yes their biased but they'll give you far more useful information about the cars than the pub experts on here. it's the reliability that puts me off the alfa! such a pickle!
what other suggestions have people got?
Funny, if a focus or a golf fails, nobody comments much but if an Alfa fails well, it's an Alfa, what do you expect!
I've said it once, I'll say it again, if they are maintained correctly with a little knowledge from the forums they are as reliable as most other mainstream cars.
They are however, very stylish and good looking which can't be said of some of the utterly dull looking German and Japanese stuff.
I've said it once, I'll say it again, if they are maintained correctly with a little knowledge from the forums they are as reliable as most other mainstream cars.
They are however, very stylish and good looking which can't be said of some of the utterly dull looking German and Japanese stuff.
Oilchange said:
Funny, if a focus or a golf fails, nobody comments much but if an Alfa fails well, it's an Alfa, what do you expect!
I've said it once, I'll say it again, if they are maintained correctly with a little knowledge from the forums they are as reliable as most other mainstream cars.
They are however, very stylish and good looking which can't be said of some of the utterly dull looking German and Japanese stuff.
Quite agree, but then I'm just labelled as a fan boy so what do I know. I've said it once, I'll say it again, if they are maintained correctly with a little knowledge from the forums they are as reliable as most other mainstream cars.
They are however, very stylish and good looking which can't be said of some of the utterly dull looking German and Japanese stuff.
Alfa every time for me, the focus is a dreadful car dynamically. I've had every version and whilst the mk1 was brilliant they got worse and worse to drive. Don't know about the latest one though.
Haven't had 159, they look great though. Loved my 147, and both that and the GT also come in diesel form.
Haven't had 159, they look great though. Loved my 147, and both that and the GT also come in diesel form.
Alfahorn said:
Your comments are unhelpful when they are inaccurate.
What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
Happy to back it up - i've had various issues - through actual experience whilst motor with that 1.9CDTI / JTD engine that is put in Alfas / Vauxhalls / Saabs/ FIATS in terms of dual mass flywheel failure at circa 80K - budget £700+, and also DPF failure because the 6 speed gearboxes dont let the DPF get to the temperature to clean itself properly even on long drives. Budget £700+ to resolve that too.What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
I've also heard of issues with injectors, though i personally have not experienced that. It is one of the engines that motor traders are wary of.
If you can tell me that is absolutely not an issue, then i stand corrected.
I have tended to avoid reselling Alfas because their owners tend to think they are worth into premium car money, when the reality is, they're usually worth less than the equivalent ford and very hard to shift.
Also, come resale time, customers are wary enough of Alfas, but reselling a high miles one - which the O/P is going to be doing - could result in you having to take, relatively speaking, peanuts for it.
Helpful?
Alfahorn said:
Oilchange said:
Funny, if a focus or a golf fails, nobody comments much but if an Alfa fails well, it's an Alfa, what do you expect!
I've said it once, I'll say it again, if they are maintained correctly with a little knowledge from the forums they are as reliable as most other mainstream cars.
They are however, very stylish and good looking which can't be said of some of the utterly dull looking German and Japanese stuff.
Quite agree, but then I'm just labelled as a fan boy so what do I know. I've said it once, I'll say it again, if they are maintained correctly with a little knowledge from the forums they are as reliable as most other mainstream cars.
They are however, very stylish and good looking which can't be said of some of the utterly dull looking German and Japanese stuff.
(I still have the car after 4 years and 137,000 miles, so it must be doing something right!)
As a mechanic I also despise the engine, inlet manifold flaps seize causing the dual mass to fail, timing belts break, egr valves clogg, vacuum pipes fail, and the workings of the engine is so that any relatively simple jobs turns into a nightmare. They also sound very fragile if you get my meaning.
Carl
Carl
My experience of the reliability of modern Alfas is very good. My Brera did 105k miles and the only electrical issues were a lambda probe and a couple of solenoids in the variable valve timing at 95k miles, it never broke down and had no rattles or squeaks. My Giulietta is 18 months old, has done 18k miles and has been absolutely perfect. Both have been better than the Honda Civic I had in terms of reliability and build quality.
If I was going for a 159 I would go for a 2.0 diesel TI, I was looking at a red one yesterday at the Alfa dealer in Perth and I was very tempted but I have no need to change and am very happy with the Giulietta.
Like lots of modern diesels the 1.9 does have some issues with things like exhaust recirculation valves and DPF problems if they do not get a decent run every so often, I did 96k miles with one in my multipla and the only issue was having to get the recirculation valve cleaned once.
As I said lots of modern diesels can have problems, I would be wary of the Mazda diesels they can have very serious issues with the sump filling up with diesel when the DPF regen fails, I would google it if you are looking at a Mazda diesel.
If I was going for a 159 I would go for a 2.0 diesel TI, I was looking at a red one yesterday at the Alfa dealer in Perth and I was very tempted but I have no need to change and am very happy with the Giulietta.
Like lots of modern diesels the 1.9 does have some issues with things like exhaust recirculation valves and DPF problems if they do not get a decent run every so often, I did 96k miles with one in my multipla and the only issue was having to get the recirculation valve cleaned once.
As I said lots of modern diesels can have problems, I would be wary of the Mazda diesels they can have very serious issues with the sump filling up with diesel when the DPF regen fails, I would google it if you are looking at a Mazda diesel.
Alfahorn said:
LGriffiths88 said:
heart says an alfa, the head says something like a 2 litre well specced focus!
it's the reliability that puts me off the alfa! such a pickle!
what other suggestions have people got?
Honestly, consider other models , there's plenty to chose from but give the Alfa chance. There are a lot of people commenting on this forum that clearly have very little knowledge of Alfa. My advice would be go on to Alfa Owner, yes their biased but they'll give you far more useful information about the cars than the pub experts on here. it's the reliability that puts me off the alfa! such a pickle!
what other suggestions have people got?
The pub expert who has been dealing with mid life onwards diesels for years now, so knows which ones are troublesome and knows which ones to buy and which ones to avoid?
The pub expert who knows which cars will sell on quite easily even with high miles, as opposed to the ones that will drop like snow off a ditch?
The pub expert who knows exactly how particular brands are viewed in the motor trade, and therefore can give direction on which wont make you as popular as a turd in a swimming pool come trade in time?
The pub expert who actually does do an 80 mile return commute and faced exactly the same predicament as the O/P six months ago when buying a car?
The pub expert who knows MPG inside out and knows that picking the wrong diesel car could be a £180 bill per month or a £300 a month fuel bill?
So whos more likely to have a more balanced opinion at hand? Someone you deem a Pub expert, or you, a self confessed Alfa Fanboy?
Chap, we're not saying that Alfas are immune to these issues just that other cars ARE susceptible to the same ones. Any car with a DPF will at some stage have problems, it goes without saying they almost designed to get blocked. Any car with a dual mass flywheel will have to change it after a period. My wife's car needed a new clutch and dmf after about 60,000 miles and that is powered by BMW. A lot of that is down to driving style though, so is subjective.
I've also heard of issues with injectors, though i personally have not experienced that. It is one of the engines that motor traders are wary of.
If you can tell me that is absolutely not an issue, then i stand corrected.
I have tended to avoid reselling Alfas because their owners tend to think they are worth into premium car money, when the reality is, they're usually worth less than the equivalent ford and very hard to shift.
Also, come resale time, customers are wary enough of Alfas, but reselling a high miles one - which the O/P is going to be doing - could result in you having to take, relatively speaking, peanuts for it.
Helpful?
daemon said:
Alfahorn said:
Your comments are unhelpful when they are inaccurate.
What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
Happy to back it up - i've had various issues - through actual experience whilst motor with that 1.9CDTI / JTD engine that is put in Alfas / Vauxhalls / Saabs/ FIATS in terms of dual mass flywheel failure at circa 80K - budget £700+, and also DPF failure because the 6 speed gearboxes dont let the DPF get to the temperature to clean itself properly even on long drives. Budget £700+ to resolve that too.What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
I've also heard of issues with injectors, though i personally have not experienced that. It is one of the engines that motor traders are wary of.
If you can tell me that is absolutely not an issue, then i stand corrected.
I have tended to avoid reselling Alfas because their owners tend to think they are worth into premium car money, when the reality is, they're usually worth less than the equivalent ford and very hard to shift.
Also, come resale time, customers are wary enough of Alfas, but reselling a high miles one - which the O/P is going to be doing - could result in you having to take, relatively speaking, peanuts for it.
Helpful?
C. Grimsley said:
As a mechanic I also despise the engine, inlet manifold flaps seize causing the dual mass to fail, timing belts break, egr valves clogg, vacuum pipes fail, and the workings of the engine is so that any relatively simple jobs turns into a nightmare. They also sound very fragile if you get my meaning.
Carl
Thank you. Was starting to think i was the only one who knew these engines.Carl
daemon said:
Alfahorn said:
Your comments are unhelpful when they are inaccurate.
What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
Happy to back it up - i've had various issues - through actual experience whilst motor with that 1.9CDTI / JTD engine that is put in Alfas / Vauxhalls / Saabs/ FIATS in terms of dual mass flywheel failure at circa 80K - budget £700+, and also DPF failure because the 6 speed gearboxes dont let the DPF get to the temperature to clean itself properly even on long drives. Budget £700+ to resolve that too.What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
I've also heard of issues with injectors, though i personally have not experienced that. It is one of the engines that motor traders are wary of.
If you can tell me that is absolutely not an issue, then i stand corrected.
I have tended to avoid reselling Alfas because their owners tend to think they are worth into premium car money, when the reality is, they're usually worth less than the equivalent ford and very hard to shift.
Also, come resale time, customers are wary enough of Alfas, but reselling a high miles one - which the O/P is going to be doing - could result in you having to take, relatively speaking, peanuts for it.
Helpful?
So, when asked to back up your claims all you were able to do is come up with issues than can be problems on diesels In general.
Alfas are not hard to shift if you have the right model and specification, the same as anything else but I'm happy to let you believe otherwise.
Oilchange said:
Chap, we're not saying that Alfas are immune to these issues just that other cars ARE susceptible to the same ones. Any car with a DPF will at some stage have problems, it goes without saying they almost designed to get blocked. Any car with a dual mass flywheel will have to change it after a period. My wife's car needed a new clutch and dmf after about 60,000 miles and that is powered by BMW. A lot of that is down to driving style though, so is subjective.
Yes, and i've already said if the O/P really wants one, to go for it! However, in my opinion the 1.9 JTD / CDTI engine is problematic, and not necessarily the most economical.
The O/P has already said reliability and economy are important to him.
daemon said:
Are you referring to the pub expert who has owned just one less alfa than you?
The pub expert who has been dealing with mid life onwards diesels for years now, so knows which ones are troublesome and knows which ones to buy and which ones to avoid?
The pub expert who knows which cars will sell on quite easily even with high miles, as opposed to the ones that will drop like snow off a ditch?
The pub expert who knows exactly how particular brands are viewed in the motor trade, and therefore can give direction on which wont make you as popular as a turd in a swimming pool come trade in time?
The pub expert who actually does do an 80 mile return commute and faced exactly the same predicament as the O/P six months ago when buying a car?
The pub expert who knows MPG inside out and knows that picking the wrong diesel car could be a £180 bill per month or a £300 a month fuel bill?
So whos more likely to have a more balanced opinion at hand? Someone you deem a Pub expert, or you, a self confessed Alfa Fanboy?
Advice, you don't know anything about me or my experience and knowledge of Alfas other than what you've clean from profile and what I've shared on here. I really wouldn't go down that road with me if I were you, it could you look very silly indeed.The pub expert who has been dealing with mid life onwards diesels for years now, so knows which ones are troublesome and knows which ones to buy and which ones to avoid?
The pub expert who knows which cars will sell on quite easily even with high miles, as opposed to the ones that will drop like snow off a ditch?
The pub expert who knows exactly how particular brands are viewed in the motor trade, and therefore can give direction on which wont make you as popular as a turd in a swimming pool come trade in time?
The pub expert who actually does do an 80 mile return commute and faced exactly the same predicament as the O/P six months ago when buying a car?
The pub expert who knows MPG inside out and knows that picking the wrong diesel car could be a £180 bill per month or a £300 a month fuel bill?
So whos more likely to have a more balanced opinion at hand? Someone you deem a Pub expert, or you, a self confessed Alfa Fanboy?
Alfahorn said:
daemon said:
Alfahorn said:
Your comments are unhelpful when they are inaccurate.
What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
Happy to back it up - i've had various issues - through actual experience whilst motor with that 1.9CDTI / JTD engine that is put in Alfas / Vauxhalls / Saabs/ FIATS in terms of dual mass flywheel failure at circa 80K - budget £700+, and also DPF failure because the 6 speed gearboxes dont let the DPF get to the temperature to clean itself properly even on long drives. Budget £700+ to resolve that too.What are the reliability issues you speak of? You've said on more than one occasion their unreliable but without backing it up.
There is nothing wrong with giving somebody different ideas and options, however make sure you know what you're talking about first.
I've also heard of issues with injectors, though i personally have not experienced that. It is one of the engines that motor traders are wary of.
If you can tell me that is absolutely not an issue, then i stand corrected.
I have tended to avoid reselling Alfas because their owners tend to think they are worth into premium car money, when the reality is, they're usually worth less than the equivalent ford and very hard to shift.
Also, come resale time, customers are wary enough of Alfas, but reselling a high miles one - which the O/P is going to be doing - could result in you having to take, relatively speaking, peanuts for it.
Helpful?
So, when asked to back up your claims all you were able to do is come up with issues than can be problems on diesels In general.
Alfas are not hard to shift if you have the right model and specification, the same as anything else but I'm happy to let you believe otherwise.
C. Grimsley said:
As a mechanic I also despise the engine, inlet manifold flaps seize causing the dual mass to fail, timing belts break, egr valves clogg, vacuum pipes fail, and the workings of the engine is so that any relatively simple jobs turns into a nightmare. They also sound very fragile if you get my meaning.
Carl
DMFs CAN fail on other engines, but are notorious for failing on that 1.9 JTD / CDTI engine at circa 80K miles. Therefore you are quite literally walking in to a known bill.Carl
Other engines have DPFs, but are not coupled with a gearbox that keeps the revs below the revs needed to get the DPF up to regeneration temperature on long runs.
It is a known problematic engine in the motor trade.
Rightly or wrongly, an Alfa is still seen as a relatively fragile car. High mileage examples - as the O/P would have come resale time are priced accordingly by the trade in order to generate any interest from retail customers.
Clearly you have rose tinted glasses with regards to Alfas, so its of little surprise that you are attacking anyones opinion based on reality, that clearly differs from yours.
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