RE: Lotus Carlton: PH Heroes
Discussion
I'm always amused by the derision with which old car interiors are viewed in PH reviews. Do you not expect designs to move on?
The interior of this was viewed as quite luxurious at the time and is a million miles away from what was around 24 years previously: 1966 machinery still regularly featured painted metal dashboards, not to mention non-syncro gearboxes, SU carburettors and crossply tyres.
I do agree that technological development has gone stratospheric since this was built though; as has been mentioned, 400 bhp is not as "special" as it once was.
The interior of this was viewed as quite luxurious at the time and is a million miles away from what was around 24 years previously: 1966 machinery still regularly featured painted metal dashboards, not to mention non-syncro gearboxes, SU carburettors and crossply tyres.
I do agree that technological development has gone stratospheric since this was built though; as has been mentioned, 400 bhp is not as "special" as it once was.
LewisR said:
I do like these but I think that they're too precious now to be able to use properly.
Getting engine parts for one of these will be difficult and just racking up the miles can knock thousands off the value.
Arguan;y better off, from a driving perspective, getting an E34 M5 as parts are more readily available and values are lower.
Its a car, not the Holy Grail, it is worth 20 grand, not 10 million, of course it depends where you are coming from but people spend 20k on cars every day, they then treat them like crap, they depreciate and then get thrown away. Buy one, look after it, use it in the manner it was devised for with some sympathy, keep some money back for repairs and I suspect it will work out cheaper to own than say a new Astra Diesel for the same money.Getting engine parts for one of these will be difficult and just racking up the miles can knock thousands off the value.
Arguan;y better off, from a driving perspective, getting an E34 M5 as parts are more readily available and values are lower.
Working as a Prison Officer and talking to the car thieves in the mid nineties these were the "Holy Grail" of their thieving. I remember one lad talking of how they stole a certain Mr Carrots LC from the Birmingham area and were caught and prosecuted. Cosworths were obviously very popular also as was anything fast and Ford which resulted in my RS 2000 Custom being chained to the lamp post at the top of my moms drive. For a long time performance cars became a bit of a liability to own......didn't stop me though.
Mikebentley said:
Working as a Prison Officer and talking to the car thieves in the mid nineties these were the "Holy Grail" of their thieving. I remember one lad talking of how they stole a certain Mr Carrots LC from the Birmingham area and were caught and prosecuted. Cosworths were obviously very popular also as was anything fast and Ford which resulted in my RS 2000 Custom being chained to the lamp post at the top of my moms drive. For a long time performance cars became a bit of a liability to own......didn't stop me though.
Interesting....my dad and I had a test ride in Jasper's. By then it was with its second owner. I can still remember how amazing the brakes felt, never mind the engine! I wish he had bought itPHMatt said:
As much as I love these I've found myself feeling like the balls to make it outweighed the actual engineering achievement.
Is 380bhp that much for a 3.6 6 pot with two large turbos?
When you consider the M3 evo a few years later made 60 less with 400cc less and no turbos.
258 vs 419 ft lbs of torque is what matters. Is 380bhp that much for a 3.6 6 pot with two large turbos?
When you consider the M3 evo a few years later made 60 less with 400cc less and no turbos.
PHMatt said:
As much as I love these I've found myself feeling like the balls to make it outweighed the actual engineering achievement.
Is 380bhp that much for a 3.6 6 pot with two large turbos?
When you consider the M3 evo a few years later made 60 less with 400cc less and no turbos.
The S50B32 was incredible for the time, and still is imho but the Carlton's performance was epic at the time of launch.Is 380bhp that much for a 3.6 6 pot with two large turbos?
When you consider the M3 evo a few years later made 60 less with 400cc less and no turbos.
From the golden age of supersaloons for me (1985-94), and still reasonable when compared to an W124 E60 or Hammer. The E34 M5, E500E & RS2 are still a good bit cheaper, but it looks like they're finally beginning to appreciate now too
s m said:
???
M3 and M5 both existed prior to LC
So did the B10 BiTurbo, which would be my choice of turbo nutter barge I think. Really wish I'd gone to look at that one at Avantgarde a few years ago! M3 and M5 both existed prior to LC
LewisR said:
I do like these but I think that they're too precious now to be able to use properly.
Getting engine parts for one of these will be difficult and just racking up the miles can knock thousands off the value.
Arguan;y better off, from a driving perspective, getting an E34 M5 as parts are more readily available and values are lower.
In theory, but I still think the E34 M5 holds the record for the longest back-order wait for a BMW part. Can't remember what it was for (and hope I never find out!), but it was a matter of years before being manufactured I believeGetting engine parts for one of these will be difficult and just racking up the miles can knock thousands off the value.
Arguan;y better off, from a driving perspective, getting an E34 M5 as parts are more readily available and values are lower.
birdcage said:
It seems if you want any car these days that evokes memories of growing up that has achieved 'classic status (and I have no arguments of this car being in that camp) you have to pay through the nose for it.
Everything might as well be POA these days, it's like house buying pre 2007.
It isn't a classic unless depreciation has stopped really though, and to be a recognised and coveted classic it should have started appreciating, so not sure there is any surprise in that.Everything might as well be POA these days, it's like house buying pre 2007.
The claimed extra rhd one, is that an urban myth? as they all started life as standard complete GSi 3000s did they not, why build up a bare shell when all they had to do was take another GSi from the production lines?
Besides they could not sell the ones they already had back then, some were stuck in the showrooms for years
Pretty sure I saw a new old stock shell for sale a number of years ago as well.
Fantastic cars by the way, there is a space in my dream garage for a minter
Besides they could not sell the ones they already had back then, some were stuck in the showrooms for years
Pretty sure I saw a new old stock shell for sale a number of years ago as well.
Fantastic cars by the way, there is a space in my dream garage for a minter
Edited by PAUL500 on Monday 24th March 14:21
Good article
PAUL500 said:
The claimed extra rhd one, is that an urban myth? as they all started life as standard complete GSi 3000s did they not, why build up a bare shell when all they had to do was take another GSi from the production lines?
Not an urban myth, they did make another (based on a used GSi) but it was because Vauxhall didn't have any press cars available after the initial launch so they knocked another one up for that purpose. They weren't allowed to number it 951 so instead used 0000. Now owned by PH member B'stard Child Edited by NotNormal on Monday 24th March 14:39
J4CKO said:
Its a car, not the Holy Grail, it is worth 20 grand, not 10 million, of course it depends where you are coming from but people spend 20k on cars every day, they then treat them like crap, they depreciate and then get thrown away. Buy one, look after it, use it in the manner it was devised for with some sympathy, keep some money back for repairs and I suspect it will work out cheaper to own than say a new Astra Diesel for the same money.
You'll be doing the world a disservice by treating a rare lotus Carlton like a disposable Mondeo.PHMatt said:
J4CKO said:
Its a car, not the Holy Grail, it is worth 20 grand, not 10 million, of course it depends where you are coming from but people spend 20k on cars every day, they then treat them like crap, they depreciate and then get thrown away. Buy one, look after it, use it in the manner it was devised for with some sympathy, keep some money back for repairs and I suspect it will work out cheaper to own than say a new Astra Diesel for the same money.
You'll be doing the world a disservice by treating a rare lotus Carlton like a disposable Mondeo.I said,
"Buy one, look after it, use it in the manner it was devised for with some sympathy, keep some money back for and I suspect it will work out cheaper to own than say a new Astra Diesel for the same money"
I didnt say, buy it, rag it and bin it !
I was saying that they arent too valuable to be enjoyed, no car is if you can afford to keep on top of it.
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