SOS - Tyre Nightmare - Please Help

[utterly83]

Hello All,

I hope someone can help, I recently had my local garage remove my winter tyres and fit summer tyres. It has ben broken ever since.

Symptoms;
[u]From cold, there is no shaking at any speed[/u]

Once i have been at 70mph for 2 mins the car begins to shake
This shaking remains between 40mph and 70mph.
If I travel at less than 40mph shaking stops
If i then go above 40mph again shaking resumes (unlike when its cold?).

This shaking only happens once i have been at at 70mph for 2 mins, but then it occurs between 40-70mph regardless

The shaking is constant in relation to road speed, not engine revs or gear or brakes.
Wheels and tyres perfectly balanced and true
Tyres brand new goodyear eagle f1s
18" wheels

Is there anything obvious this could be? Its worse than a wheel balance issue, but a similar shake/throb sensation and only occurs once i have hit 70mph for the first time.
It is not related to revs or gear and still happens in neutral so its unlikely to be drive shafts
I have a thule wing bar, but i do not believe buffeting/Shaking would occur at 40mph?

[Dr_Rick]

Daft question, but you haven't mentioned that you've checked all the wheel nuts are done up. Don't assume that just because they can change tyres that they remember to do the wheel nuts up properly.

[dazwalsh]

sounds like tracking is out, I would have it rechecked it may have been knocked somehow during changeover, or that the winters masked the problem.

my old 307 had steering wheel shake at 70 and above regardless of revs or gear, turned out to be tracking

[trashbat]

Tracking or a bent wheel? You can balance a bent wheel - sort of - but it still won't run smoothly. I found it would behave differently at different speeds - there's a sort of resonance where it's much worse.

[Rick Cutler]

Indeed, I would get laser four wheel alignment done, the winter tyres although balanced correctly could have a different setup completely to summer tyres.

Laser 4 Wheel alignment doesn't cost a lot more then tracking but is far more advanced.

[Dodsy]

Go to a decent tyre place (I use wheels in motion in chesham) and have them check the wheels for buckles and shape. Have them recheck the balance. If this shows up no issues then have all the suspension components checked - bushes, dampers etc.

As another poster said, stick the old wheels back on that is the quickest way to narrow it down to either tyres or suspension

[ViperDave]

have you checked tyre pressures? don't assume they inflated them to the correct spec. As has been said, wheel nuts at correct torque.

What makes you think the wheels are perfectly balanced. One tyre shop told me they were perfectly balanced, then told me they didnt have to balance any better because the vibration started at 70mph, (on a Z rated tyre) Another tyre shop rebalanced with considerably less lead (substitute) on them, the original one had put the first weight wrong then just chased the vibration adding more and more weights.

[paintman]

When the wheels were fitted where the mating surfaces of wheel & hub clean & free from anything that could cause alignment problems?

Put the wheels back on a balancing machine. Look for running out of true & for any apparent 'kick' on any part of the tyre tread.
Another way of doing that - did it on my sons 306 - is to jack up and support the driven wheels (both of them) start the engine then put it in gear & look to see if there is any 'kick' on part of the tread. This turned out to be the case on one of his tyres.
If there is, it points to tyre damage which may not be obvious by static visual inspection.

[ViperDave]

paintman said:

When the wheels were fitted where the mating surfaces of wheel & hub clean & free from anything that could cause alignment problems?

Put the wheels back on a balancing machine. Look for running out of true & for any apparent 'kick' on any part of the tyre tread.
Another way of doing that - did it on my sons 306 - is to jack up and support the driven wheels (both of them) start the engine then put it in gear & look to see if there is any 'kick' on part of the tread. This turned out to be the case on one of his tyres.
If there is, it points to tyre damage which may not be obvious by static visual inspection.

That's what I'm wondering, tyre damage that is made worse by the pressure increase as the tyres warm up, maybe made worse by high pressures in the fist place

[rllmuk]

Do both sets of wheels use the same type of bolts - flat/radius/cone ?

[Spanglepants]

What car do you have?

[ViperDave]

if you increase the cold pressures by 5 psi does it vibrate from cold?, likewise if you let out 5 psi does it stop?

Nb this is not a fix, just a diagnostic, so if letting out 5psi fixes the problem, unless you were over inflated in the first place all its telling you is you know its a dud tyre not that you should run them 5psi low!

[Dog Star]

Tyre damage caused by the removal and remounting of the tyre would be my bet.

Have you a same size spare, or can you borrow one? i'd suggest that it's one of the fronts from your description OP, so I'd be swapping on another wheel and tyre to each front and giving it a quick test to isolate.

[Herbs]

Are the tyres brand, brand new or new before you put winters on? Another poster had a problem where the tyres were flat spotting after parking up which gave him bad vibrations. I can't imagine it would be that as it would be worse cold than hot but it's another thing to add to the list.

It certainly sounds like a wheel balancing issue - my E39 was awful for it.

[utterly83]

Thanks everyone.

It is a BMW 130i

I had the tyres changed - I only have 1 set of wheels, with no spare.
Spigots, wheels bolts etc all unchanged.
They have had the wheels on/off the car 3 times now to check the wheels/tyres.
When I get the car back tonight, I will check the torque of the bolts.
The summer tyres are brand new goodyear eagle f1's

They are non-runflat tyres on a wheel designed for runflat tyres - however, every petrol head worth his salt bins the rft's so i doubt this is the problem.

I will get it aligned tomorrow on a local hunter rig. I am in Cardiff if anyone can recommend a local indy garage?

[Billyray911]

I had a very slight buckle to my front offside wheel and the symptoms sound almost identical.Massive vibration throughout the cabin and was especially noticeable through the accelerator pedal.Would come and go,speed dependant.
I had the wheel straightened as much as possible,but it persisted as there was still a slight buckle.Changed to winters and the problem vanished.
Have since replaced the wheel-no further issues...

[utterly83]

I forgot to mention that this problem occured after they removed and refitted the wheels after failing to remove the winter tyres. Their run flat tyre specialist had the day off, they tried to remove the winters but failed and refitted them, so i had to come back another day to have the summer fitted.

This problem was present with the winter tyres, once they had refitted the wheels on day 1, sso i know it is not the summer tyres.

[mad4amanda]

is there a coloured dot on the summer rubber and have they fitted this opposite the tyre valve ? If not the tyre is not located in the optimum position for balancing.

[Mr2Mike]

A binding brake can cause vibration after it's heated everything up - the wheel change might be coincidental. Have a feel of the wheels after a high speed drive and see if one is noticeably warmer than the rest.

[BritishRacinGrin]

Sounds like it's brakes or a worn suspension bush for me. Your larger, heavier summer wheels will exacerbate any wobbles caused by a soft or perished control arm bush which may not have been evident with your winters.
In my opinion, the fact the fault is intermittent rules out anything wheel / tyre related.