RE: Porsche Cayenne Diesel S: Review
Discussion
Panjy said:
I've got to be honest & say i also don't really understand why most people buy these cars.
I understand why someone with 3+ children might buy one as there isn't really another option of having something fast & practical with enough seats (i'm guessing this gives you a third row).
But going on the fact that 90 plus percent of the fast SUVs i see not having 3+ children in them then why would you buy one over say an Audi S6 avant or the like?
The Audi costs a similar amount, has more boot space than a family of four can fill, is faster, sounds better, handles better, is better looking & isn't that much worse on fuel.
I've nothing against people liking different types of cars, each to their own. I'm just interested in the thinking behind why people would choose one of these if they don't need a slightly bigger boot & an extra row of seats.
Having driven both the S6 and Cayenne, I'm not sure the S6 does handle better TBH, both weigh 2 tonnes the Audi has its engine in the front bumper the Cayenne doesn't but it's a bit taller. I understand why someone with 3+ children might buy one as there isn't really another option of having something fast & practical with enough seats (i'm guessing this gives you a third row).
But going on the fact that 90 plus percent of the fast SUVs i see not having 3+ children in them then why would you buy one over say an Audi S6 avant or the like?
The Audi costs a similar amount, has more boot space than a family of four can fill, is faster, sounds better, handles better, is better looking & isn't that much worse on fuel.
I've nothing against people liking different types of cars, each to their own. I'm just interested in the thinking behind why people would choose one of these if they don't need a slightly bigger boot & an extra row of seats.
Edited by Panjy on Thursday 27th March 19:29
As for noise the S6 is VERY muted smooth but nothing special, my M3 sounds like thunder compared back to back and people say that is a quiet V8.
As for looks the S6 Avant is a bit slab sided compared to say the RS6 which does look fantastic to me, the Cayenne on the right wheels has lots of presence and isn't an ugly car in my view.
The Cayenne is so easy to live with as are most SUV's, everything is just easy, good sight lines, easy access to the boot and cabin, the people that buy them contrary to a PHer's typical beliefs aren't fools.
My last 4 cars have been M3's or 911 the next one will probably be a R/S6 avant or Cayenne V8 it will be a difficult choice.
Edited by Wills2 on Thursday 27th March 20:24
Panjy said:
I've got to be honest & say i also don't really understand why most people buy these cars.
I understand why someone with 3+ children might buy one as there isn't really another option of having something fast & practical with enough seats (i'm guessing this gives you a third row).
But going on the fact that 90 plus percent of the fast SUVs i see not having 3+ children in them then why would you buy one over say an Audi S6 avant or the like?
The Audi costs a similar amount, has more boot space than a family of four can fill, is faster, sounds better, handles better, is better looking & isn't that much worse on fuel.
I've nothing against people liking different types of cars, each to their own. I'm just interested in the thinking behind why people would choose one of these if they don't need a slightly bigger boot & an extra row of seats.
Conversley, why would you buy an S6 Avant over a Cayenne Diesel S or the like? The Porsche costs a similar amount, has tons of boot space, is more than fast enough in the real world, sounds great, handles great, isn't boring to look at & is much better on fuel. I understand why someone with 3+ children might buy one as there isn't really another option of having something fast & practical with enough seats (i'm guessing this gives you a third row).
But going on the fact that 90 plus percent of the fast SUVs i see not having 3+ children in them then why would you buy one over say an Audi S6 avant or the like?
The Audi costs a similar amount, has more boot space than a family of four can fill, is faster, sounds better, handles better, is better looking & isn't that much worse on fuel.
I've nothing against people liking different types of cars, each to their own. I'm just interested in the thinking behind why people would choose one of these if they don't need a slightly bigger boot & an extra row of seats.
Edited by Panjy on Thursday 27th March 19:29
It also rides better and you get a better view of the road from sitting high up.
Horses for courses dear boy.
red997 said:
to answer the 'why buy one of these over an avant A6'
having driven an avant A6 (RS6) it was possibly one of the most dull moments of my life...
I've owned two Cayennes, first gen turbo and second gen hybrid.
I did many, many miles in the 1st - traded it in for the 2nd - which dragged the cup car around europe.
it also made an appearance at Donnington and Spa, and far from disgraced itself. According to the passengers, anyway
I've driven the diesels - loved the V8, V6 not so much;
in fact, the only reason I ended up with the hybrid was because I couldn't be arsed waiting 18 months for the diesel !
If you don't think that they can do off road - get yourself on a Porsche off road course...it changed my view.
Correct tyres obviously make a huuuugggeeee difference in winter, but both were very capable in pretty deep snow and ice.
If I still had the GT3, I would probably still have the Cayenne.
but I don't
So I have a Panamera Turbo S instead
As I understand it the Gen 1 Cayenne was pretty impressive off road, the new ones arn't as good as they've done away with low range etc but their still pretty capable, there was a video Whatcar or someone did comparing the new RR and Cayenne and while the RR did win out off road, the Cayenne by no means embarassed itself, particularly as both were on road tyres which makes a huge difference, coupled with how well it drives on tarmac I think their great cars.having driven an avant A6 (RS6) it was possibly one of the most dull moments of my life...
I've owned two Cayennes, first gen turbo and second gen hybrid.
I did many, many miles in the 1st - traded it in for the 2nd - which dragged the cup car around europe.
it also made an appearance at Donnington and Spa, and far from disgraced itself. According to the passengers, anyway
I've driven the diesels - loved the V8, V6 not so much;
in fact, the only reason I ended up with the hybrid was because I couldn't be arsed waiting 18 months for the diesel !
If you don't think that they can do off road - get yourself on a Porsche off road course...it changed my view.
Correct tyres obviously make a huuuugggeeee difference in winter, but both were very capable in pretty deep snow and ice.
If I still had the GT3, I would probably still have the Cayenne.
but I don't
So I have a Panamera Turbo S instead
EricE said:
I drive one of these with Air and PASM from time to time and find it shocking how small and compact the car feels on the road.
Getting in for the first time I expected it to be a proper barge, but compared to my expectations (!) it really handles like a medium sized sporting tourer.
Of course all this "masking" of driving dynamics can’t hide the ugly truth when you take a sweeping Autobahn exit just a bit too fast or during heavy braking. In the end it’s still lardy heavy beast. Ceramics would probably help, but a Diesel with ceramics...
Diesel with ceramics ?...Getting in for the first time I expected it to be a proper barge, but compared to my expectations (!) it really handles like a medium sized sporting tourer.
Of course all this "masking" of driving dynamics can’t hide the ugly truth when you take a sweeping Autobahn exit just a bit too fast or during heavy braking. In the end it’s still lardy heavy beast. Ceramics would probably help, but a Diesel with ceramics...
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Essential when you're pressing on through the fatherland to get back to home in the UK...
It's the best rapid all rounder available. RR (still) just don't have the quality. If you do lots of miles a large petrol makes no sense, let alone the cost, the time spent at petrol stations loses it's charm.
I came from a 535D, to a 2008 RR, putting 130K+ miles on each, also had an RS6 (expensively retrofitted ceramics), then as BMW didn't release the 550d in the UK, I bought one of these, and am delighted. Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, as other posters have said, haters gonna hate, we don't have to respect their opinions.
Thanks for the replies.
So really the benefits of these are improved visibility, bigger boot, better ride (i hadn't thought of that one), if its a seven seater then obviously thats a big plus if you have 3+ kids & they make a good tow vehicle.
I don't buy the fuel economy argument as if you buy a large petrol or diesel version of one of these & compare it like for like with a similar engined car they tend to be worse due to the SUVs weight. Even the petrol engined S6 i mentioned earlier is only 5 mpg worse on fuel economy than the diesel in the article & that difference will be reduced further when you take into account the cheaper unit price of petrol.
But i guess it really is horses for courses. Personally i don't feel any need to sit higher, find the visibility, boot size & ride in all sports saloon / estates i've driven perfectly adequate, only have 2 kids & don't tow a trailer.
I'm also a keen driver & do track days so handling & performance are more important to me & i'm confident when pushed to the limit a sports saloon will always have the edge. The laws of physics dictate that don't they.
I guess i am a bit of a beardy - i'll go get my coat
So really the benefits of these are improved visibility, bigger boot, better ride (i hadn't thought of that one), if its a seven seater then obviously thats a big plus if you have 3+ kids & they make a good tow vehicle.
I don't buy the fuel economy argument as if you buy a large petrol or diesel version of one of these & compare it like for like with a similar engined car they tend to be worse due to the SUVs weight. Even the petrol engined S6 i mentioned earlier is only 5 mpg worse on fuel economy than the diesel in the article & that difference will be reduced further when you take into account the cheaper unit price of petrol.
But i guess it really is horses for courses. Personally i don't feel any need to sit higher, find the visibility, boot size & ride in all sports saloon / estates i've driven perfectly adequate, only have 2 kids & don't tow a trailer.
I'm also a keen driver & do track days so handling & performance are more important to me & i'm confident when pushed to the limit a sports saloon will always have the edge. The laws of physics dictate that don't they.
I guess i am a bit of a beardy - i'll go get my coat
Panjy, in everyday situations driving an SUV feels a lot better than a low down car. I'm talking about traffic jams, motorway crawl, undesirable urban roads with dodgy characters, or even just pot holed and speed bump ridden streets. On a track obviously a sports car is the business. Or even a nice quiet country road... But everywhere else the SUV is a great idea.
toppstuff said:
smilo996 said:
Once upon a time Porsche used to make sports cars, now most of their time is taken making modified Audi SUV's.
If they weren't making what people want to buy they would have disappeared long ago.I love the new Cayenne. It does everything well.
Personally, id take this over the RRS.
Sport is hugely more desirable, even if it isn't my favourite Land Rover product - far better looking in and out, nicer place to sit and travel, more spacious, more comfortable and most importantly doesn't sacrifice its purpose of existing - being an off-roader - by pretending to be a sports car.
Accepting all the compromises of a 4WD but gaining few of the benefits makes a Cayenne look rather silly in comparison (and if nobody needs that ability, why buy one over an MPV in the first place?). The off-road track in the Autocar video referenced above was about as demanding as some farm driveways.
On the other hand, Land Rover clearly need to sort out their engine range as they can't compete with the VAG or BMW parts bins (although I understand the VAG V8 diesel is for the chop anyway).
Accepting all the compromises of a 4WD but gaining few of the benefits makes a Cayenne look rather silly in comparison (and if nobody needs that ability, why buy one over an MPV in the first place?). The off-road track in the Autocar video referenced above was about as demanding as some farm driveways.
On the other hand, Land Rover clearly need to sort out their engine range as they can't compete with the VAG or BMW parts bins (although I understand the VAG V8 diesel is for the chop anyway).
NomduJour said:
Sport is hugely more desirable, even if it isn't my favourite Land Rover product - far better looking in and out, nicer place to sit and travel, more spacious, more comfortable and most importantly doesn't sacrifice its purpose of existing - being an off-roader - by pretending to be a sports car.
That's all subjective though, depending on the individual. For me I think the Cayenne now looks great. I also don't need outright 4x4 capability all of the time so the on-road manners count for more. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that we're all after different things.
Garlick said:
I also don't need outright 4x4 capability all of the time so the on-road manners count for more
The Cayenne would be a far better car, and far more suited to 99.9% of the people who lease/buy them, if it was a Panamera estate. How many have ever been further off-road than the school playing field?0a said:
I bet it doesn't really sound good, despite what the article says. More like sounds good for a diesel, just like the BMW six pots that sound agricultural compared to a petrol six cylinder.
It really does. Bloody thing sounds like a normal V8 and even woofles like one on tickover. I was amazed, genuinely. Granted, it doesn't sound like a top-fuel dragster, but it does sound great. Fittster said:
Amirhussain said:
smilo996 said:
Once upon a time Porsche used to make sports cars, now most of their time is taken making modified Audi SUV's.
In order for them to make the sports cars, they gotta sell stuff like this. Is there any evidence that Porches subsidize petrol sports cars via the sale of diesel 4x4 and saloons?
Porsche people should be pleased, a 911 in the garage for weekend honing and a practical 4 dr Porsche for family duties, sounds like a plan to me.
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