Best Smoker Barges 1-5 large [Vol 7]

[Justayellowbadge]

Did the owner have any impact?

[bmthnick1981]

Justayellowbadge said:

Did the owner have any impact?

Apologies if i'm being dim but i'm not sure I understand the question!

Edited by bmthnick1981 on Wednesday 30th July 12:01

[Justayellowbadge]

bmthnick1981 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

Did the owner have any impact?

Apologeties if i'm being dim but i'm not sure I understand the question!

The auction car was described as belonging to a prominent enthusiast and collector.

If it was a Jay Kay/Nick Mason type, might that have accounted for part of the price achieved?

[Motorrad]

A quick R129 question- is the later 500SL with the 5 speed box a lot better than the early 4 speed hydraulic?

Might be about to get myself the earlier car but I'll hang on for the later on if it's really so much improved.

[BGarside]

Motorrad said:

A quick R129 question- is the later 500SL with the 5 speed box a lot better than the early 4 speed hydraulic?

Might be about to get myself the earlier car but I'll hang on for the later on if it's really so much improved.

I understand the earlier M119 V8 is more responsive than the later 3-valve per cylinder motor and has a little more power (326hp vs. 313?) but the later engine is a few mpg more fuel efficient.

I also understand that the earlier hydraulic 4-speed 'box is slower shifting and less responsive but more durable than the 5-speeder. I guess having 5 speeds might help performance and economy somewhat over the 4-speeder.

Another factor is that Merc build quality tended to drop after the early '90s, though I'm not sure to what extent that affected the R129.

That's all I know. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable (perhaps R129SL) will be able to provide more information than I can.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

BGarside said:

Motorrad said:

A quick R129 question- is the later 500SL with the 5 speed box a lot better than the early 4 speed hydraulic?

Might be about to get myself the earlier car but I'll hang on for the later on if it's really so much improved.

I understand the earlier M119 V8 is more responsive than the later 3-valve per cylinder motor and has a little more power (326hp vs. 313?) but the later engine is a few mpg more fuel efficient.

I also understand that the earlier hydraulic 4-speed 'box is slower shifting and less responsive but more durable than the 5-speeder. I guess having 5 speeds might help performance and economy somewhat over the 4-speeder.

Another factor is that Merc build quality tended to drop after the early '90s, though I'm not sure to what extent that affected the R129.

That's all I know. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable (perhaps R129SL) will be able to provide more information than I can.

The 5 speed box is widely acknowledged to be "better" than the 4 speed. I think the opposite is broadly true of the M119 over the M113 engine (although they are both excellent). The later cars will return 15-20% bettwe fuel economy, but you don't buy a V8 for that. There are numerous other differences between the early and late cars which I would weigh more heavily in my decision making than the engine/gearbox combo. I went for an early car predominantly on looks, and the relative lack of electronics, depsite the later cars being better to drive. The lack of a pano roof on early cars was a bitter pill to have to swallow.

[E65Ross]

How was the older V8 better? I know you don't necessarily buy a V8 for fuel economy, but if someone said I could keep the same general characteristics of performance, noise, refinement, smoothness etc etc of the V8 and get 15-20% better economy I'm hardly going to say no.

Getting 23mpg average with mine, not too bad for a 2 tonne barge and I do like to use it.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

E65Ross said:

How was the older V8 better? I know you don't necessarily buy a V8 for fuel economy, but if someone said I could keep the same general characteristics of performance, noise, refinement, smoothness etc etc of the V8 and get 15-20% better economy I'm hardly going to say no.

Getting 23mpg average with mine, not too bad for a 2 tonne barge and I do like to use it.

Folklore has it that the M119 is a more robust unit than the M113. Whether this is true in reality or not is probably splitting hairs.

[E65Ross]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

E65Ross said:

How was the older V8 better? I know you don't necessarily buy a V8 for fuel economy, but if someone said I could keep the same general characteristics of performance, noise, refinement, smoothness etc etc of the V8 and get 15-20% better economy I'm hardly going to say no.

Getting 23mpg average with mine, not too bad for a 2 tonne barge and I do like to use it.

Folklore has it that the M119 is a more robust unit than the M113. Whether this is true in reality or not is probably splitting hairs.

Well I'd probably rather take the more potent, efficient and faster unit myself. Having had 4 speed gearboxes in the past, I think 5 speed is a minimum for me, anything less either (or both) blunts performance (no matter what anyone might say about torque/power etc, something with 5 or 6 gears evenly spread will be faster than a 4 speed box with the same engine) and economy.

Even if it did mean a potential bork bill. Each to their own and both have their merits, I'd probably rather have an extra £1k saved up waiting for any potential bork bill and enjoy driving the car I know I'd rather have

[Rocksteadyeddie]

E65Ross said:

Rocksteadyeddie said:

E65Ross said:

How was the older V8 better? I know you don't necessarily buy a V8 for fuel economy, but if someone said I could keep the same general characteristics of performance, noise, refinement, smoothness etc etc of the V8 and get 15-20% better economy I'm hardly going to say no.

Getting 23mpg average with mine, not too bad for a 2 tonne barge and I do like to use it.

Folklore has it that the M119 is a more robust unit than the M113. Whether this is true in reality or not is probably splitting hairs.

Well I'd probably rather take the more potent, efficient and faster unit myself. Having had 4 speed gearboxes in the past, I think 5 speed is a minimum for me, anything less either (or both) blunts performance (no matter what anyone might say about torque/power etc, something with 5 or 6 gears evenly spread will be faster than a 4 speed box with the same engine) and economy.

Even if it did mean a potential bork bill. Each to their own and both have their merits, I'd probably rather have an extra £1k saved up waiting for any potential bork bill and enjoy driving the car I know I'd rather have

I agree. As above it would not be the defining factor (or even in the top 3) for deciding whether to go for an early/later car.

[BigBen]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

E65Ross said:

How was the older V8 better? I know you don't necessarily buy a V8 for fuel economy, but if someone said I could keep the same general characteristics of performance, noise, refinement, smoothness etc etc of the V8 and get 15-20% better economy I'm hardly going to say no.

Getting 23mpg average with mine, not too bad for a 2 tonne barge and I do like to use it.

Folklore has it that the M119 is a more robust unit than the M113. Whether this is true in reality or not is probably splitting hairs.

If you take them both to bits it is clear that the M119 is the better made unit. Also it was in the Sauber Mercedes racing car, the M113 wasn't so is not as cool!

[Rocksteadyeddie]

BigBen said:

Rocksteadyeddie said:

E65Ross said:

How was the older V8 better? I know you don't necessarily buy a V8 for fuel economy, but if someone said I could keep the same general characteristics of performance, noise, refinement, smoothness etc etc of the V8 and get 15-20% better economy I'm hardly going to say no.

Getting 23mpg average with mine, not too bad for a 2 tonne barge and I do like to use it.

Folklore has it that the M119 is a more robust unit than the M113. Whether this is true in reality or not is probably splitting hairs.

If you take them both to bits it is clear that the M119 is the better made unit. Also it was in the Sauber Mercedes racing car, the M113 wasn't so is not as cool!

I didn't know that. So basically I'm driving a 5 litre V8 Sauber. I may need to change the badging.

[BigBen]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

BigBen said:

Rocksteadyeddie said:

E65Ross said:

How was the older V8 better? I know you don't necessarily buy a V8 for fuel economy, but if someone said I could keep the same general characteristics of performance, noise, refinement, smoothness etc etc of the V8 and get 15-20% better economy I'm hardly going to say no.

Getting 23mpg average with mine, not too bad for a 2 tonne barge and I do like to use it.

Folklore has it that the M119 is a more robust unit than the M113. Whether this is true in reality or not is probably splitting hairs.

If you take them both to bits it is clear that the M119 is the better made unit. Also it was in the Sauber Mercedes racing car, the M113 wasn't so is not as cool!

I didn't know that. So basically I'm driving a 5 litre V8 Sauber. I may need to change the badging.

Funny, no passenger ever left my car unaware of that fact. Not by the performance but I made sure I told them

[jonnydm]

That is a cool factoid. Though with the season as it is presently, a Marussia badge might have more kudos.

[Mr Scruff]

Balls.

That time comes to all of us eventually but I've had a barge MOT failure on my S8. Sigh, £500 bill on a £1500 smoker stings, especially as I was MOTing it ready for sale!

[Rocksteadyeddie]

Mr Scruff said:

Balls.

That time comes to all of us eventually but I've had a barge MOT failure on my S8. Sigh, £500 bill on a £1500 smoker stings, especially as I was MOTing it ready for sale!

I got a 3 grand estimate on mine. With some spanner work and investigation I eventually got change out of a grand. Whats the issue with the S8?

[r129sl]

R129s.

M119 vs M113; 4spd vs 5spd; early vs late. None of it is a deal breaker: you want a car in good condition more than a car of any particular vintage or specification. The differences are matters of fine detail. Interestingly, time has proven the M113 to be more reliable than the M119 even if it is less pure and lovely. M113s do not go wrong at all. M119s foul up their cam oilers and stretch their timing chains.

[Motorrad]

Thanks for the info- I think I'll wait for one with the early engine and 5 speed box.

[Mr Scruff]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

I got a 3 grand estimate on mine. With some spanner work and investigation I eventually got change out of a grand. Whats the issue with the S8?

You're right - the £500 is an estimate at this stage and a bit of a 'worst case' I hope. Standard bits and pieces mainly - droplinks, bushes, track rod end stuff (to be expected on a car of that size really). I actually know the previous owner and he was surprised as he'd already replaced all that lot! Also seems to be a slight leak from a rear caliper which could be expensive and finally the pressed plates which its been wearing for the last 7 years have failed the MOT this year! Not that bothered as I didn't really like them anyway but strange/annoying that this year they're no longer deemed acceptable.

[jonnydm]

Why I've largely avoided sevicing and MOTs during my barging years.

A BMW dealer just put my 6er through an MOT which it passed with just the one expected advisory. A nice releif after years of going to 'accomodating' testing stations.

Oil, Microfilter and MOT added up to almost 5% of the purchase price and due brake fluid due soon so not got off easily.