Best Smoker Barges 1-5 large [Vol 7]

[Mr Scruff]

It's tough though - the S8 now has 112k on the clock which is nothing, I suspect it will happily go on for another 100k as its had regular oil changes and proper maintenance. In the 12 months I've owned it this is the only cost I've incurred other than petrol, but even then it's not too bad as I've only done 5k in 12 months. Air con is good, tyres have loads of life left, discs and pads can't have done more than 10k all told.

I'm telling myself that I'm thinking of selling it as I want something more practical, a hatchback or an estate which will fit more bikes/prams/general junk in but do I really need to? Chances are that this expenditure will give me another 12 months motoring with mininal additional costs (he says!).

Such is the dilemma of a barge owner I think! As the saying goes, it's a lot of car for the money.

Bugger, have I just talked myself out of selling it and even convinced myself that a £500ish bill is 'good value'?

[idiotgap]

Being realistic Mr Scruff, you might need to spend £500 each year or more than that to keep it going (ITS AN S8!!!). I bet a lot of reader threads you read on barges will confirm many of us budget £1k a year or so... price you pay for owning a car that has parts on it which are wearing out vs. a new one where you hope you have some time in hand before grot and rot catches up with you.

Obviously by pure shedding rules you should treat the car as disposable and move on - choose your camp I say!

Only way you can lose out is by changing your mind - i.e. doing the thing up to an amazing standard and then passing the benefit of that but not the cost to a new owner.

[Adrian E]

Mr Scruff said:

You're right - the £500 is an estimate at this stage and a bit of a 'worst case' I hope. Standard bits and pieces mainly - droplinks, bushes, track rod end stuff (to be expected on a car of that size really). I actually know the previous owner and he was surprised as he'd already replaced all that lot! Also seems to be a slight leak from a rear caliper which could be expensive and finally the pressed plates which its been wearing for the last 7 years have failed the MOT this year! Not that bothered as I didn't really like them anyway but strange/annoying that this year they're no longer deemed acceptable.

Look at Meyle HD parts for the suspension - if the previous owner fitted cheap ebay special or ECP stuff it'd explain why they haven't lasted.

Mine's done 60k miles with 20" rims and only the upper arms have needed changing due to full lock tearing the bushes (never worn to excess and changed as a precaution) the rest is all original still

[E65Ross]

It's £500 ffs. That's less than a set of bloody tyres. Keep the ol' girl.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

E65Ross said:

It's £500 ffs. That's less than a set of bloody tyres. Keep the ol' girl.

Agreed. At least, that's what I'd do.

In other news, I had an MOT, a new exhaust back box, new MAF sensor (to address a sluggish pull-away), a phone kit removed, and the aircon repaired (now ice-cold apparently; I collect tomorrow) all for the princely sum of £500. Happy with that.

ETA - all on the S124 bought in March.

[Fox-]

jonnydm said:

Why I've largely avoided sevicing and MOTs during my barging years.

A BMW dealer just put my 6er through an MOT which it passed with just the one expected advisory. A nice releif after years of going to 'accomodating' testing stations.

Oil, Microfilter and MOT added up to almost 5% of the purchase price and due brake fluid due soon so not got off easily.

The Microfilter thing drives me up the wall. They can't HONESTLY need changing at every service, surely?

They are now charging £130 for the microfilter element of current model services!!

[E65Ross]

I thought they were every other service? Not sure, it's the next item on my service list according to Idrive.

Those with barges, how many of you choose to use specialist indy's and how many use "ordinary" garages? Reason I ask, is I have a mate who (as I've said before) is a director at Micheldever AND someone else who runs a protyre branch so I could easily get cheaper services (parts and labour) for things like microfilter changes etc etc.... But the car has a full BMW service history until when I got it (I've used purely a good indy) but I'm wondering whether it's worth it? My thinking is that it probably is worth keeping good stamps in the book.

I can get various repairs done by protyre if they can do it.... Decisions for the smoker bargist!

Edited by E65Ross on Wednesday 30th July 20:43

[Fox-]

E65Ross said:

I thought they were every other service?

I dunno actually, are they?

Thats handy, I won't need one next time!

[barchetta_boy]

Motorrad said:

Thanks for the info- I think I'll wait for one with the early engine and 5 speed box.

You're forgetting the first rule of buying old cars (of which these barges are a subset): the differences between model variants when new are tiny compared to the difference, 20-25 years later, between a good one that has been well maintained and looked after, and a shed with £10k of deferred maintenance and tinworm.

Find a good one and enjoy it for what it is.

Joel

[r129sl]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

Agreed. At least, that's what I'd do.

In other news, I had an MOT, a new exhaust back box, new MAF sensor (to address a sluggish pull-away), a phone kit removed, and the aircon repaired (now ice-cold apparently; I collect tomorrow) all for the princely sum of £500. Happy with that.

ETA - all on the S124 bought in March.

Sounds like remarkably good value. I've done 10,000miles in mine over the last three months without any expense at all that I can recall.

Mind you, the 129 is taking up any financial slack with a whole new steering system (pump, box, links, pipes) and various bits and bobs this week.

[Motorrad]

barchetta_boy said:

You're forgetting the first rule of buying old cars (of which these barges are a subset): the differences between model variants when new are tiny compared to the difference, 20-25 years later, between a good one that has been well maintained and looked after, and a shed with £10k of deferred maintenance and tinworm.

Find a good one and enjoy it for what it is.

Joel

That's exactly what I intend to do but am going to wait for one with the 5 speed box, older engine and with any luck panoramic roof if such a combo exists. Worth paying another few grand for them I think.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

r129sl said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

Agreed. At least, that's what I'd do.

In other news, I had an MOT, a new exhaust back box, new MAF sensor (to address a sluggish pull-away), a phone kit removed, and the aircon repaired (now ice-cold apparently; I collect tomorrow) all for the princely sum of £500. Happy with that.

ETA - all on the S124 bought in March.

Sounds like remarkably good value. I've done 10,000miles in mine over the last three months without any expense at all that I can recall.

Mind you, the 129 is taking up any financial slack with a whole new steering system (pump, box, links, pipes) and various bits and bobs this week.

So as not to raise barge-ist expectations too much, I should add that the aircon system apparently needed things fixing rather than replacing, but the chap did say beforehand that many replacement parts can be sourced pretty cheaply, or even second-hand, fairly readily these days. New compressors and/or evaporators or whatever they are would bump up the cost pretty significantly of course.

Your 129 work sounds pretty major - are you doing to that what you've done to the estate?

[r129sl]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

So as not to raise barge-ist expectations too much, I should add that the aircon system apparently needed things fixing rather than replacing, but the chap did say beforehand that many replacement parts can be sourced pretty cheaply, or even second-hand, fairly readily these days. New compressors and/or evaporators or whatever they are would bump up the cost pretty significantly of course.

Your 129 work sounds pretty major - are you doing to that what you've done to the estate?

I'm quite a big fan of shopping around for new aftermarket parts from OE manufacturers. I've posted before about Behr-Hella/Bilstein/Febi-Bilstein/Lemförder/Sachs-Boge/ZF. New radiator, £120; new condenser, £100 and so on and on. These people make the parts for the manufacturer: often it's only the box and the price that are different. You can get an old German car into very good shape for relatively little expenditure. As a long term proposition it makes sense; less so if you're only keeping for six months.

My 129 is an old and hard-used car. For five years now it has been a constant process of replacing long-term consumables. So it is not an all-at-once renovation as the 124 was, but there is always something that could be made better and safer. The steering was feeling well-worn and unsatisfactory, so after replacing the links and bushes I bought a lightly used steering box (from the excellent Carl Burgess at w140.co.uk) and had it refurbished by the equally excellent Kelly Bray Steering. Then by total coincidence the steering pump started pissing out fluid from the pulley shaft, so I replaced it with a remanufactured one from MB (surprisingly, "only" about £200). Next up is the bodywork but I will have to do some more saving before I start that.

[jonnydm]

Fox- said:

jonnydm said:

Why I've largely avoided sevicing and MOTs during my barging years.

A BMW dealer just put my 6er through an MOT which it passed with just the one expected advisory. A nice releif after years of going to 'accomodating' testing stations.

Oil, Microfilter and MOT added up to almost 5% of the purchase price and due brake fluid due soon so not got off easily.

The Microfilter thing drives me up the wall. They can't HONESTLY need changing at every service, surely?

They are now charging £130 for the microfilter element of current model services!!

I'm not sure if it's every service. I think the computer says something like 20k until the next time. They also charge something like £25 for 'Standard scope'. At the end of the day, the service was £240 including collection and drop off and the obligatory valet which was bang on what the local specialist quoted.

[confused_buyer]

jonnydm said:

I'm not sure if it's every service. I think the computer says something like 20k until the next time. They also charge something like £25 for 'Standard scope'. At the end of the day, the service was £240 including collection and drop off and the obligatory valet which was bang on what the local specialist quoted.

Many such items are designed as "upsell" items for the service department which they are usually incentivised (if that is a word) to flog. Top ones are:

Brake fluid change, when the current fluid is ok. (You don't really want to kill your children do you sir?).
Air con clean and re-gas when the current system is working fine.
Coolant flush when the coolant has top spec anti-freeze designed to last 5+ years.
Tyres "a little worn" (have 6mm left - but, again, you don't want to kill your children and the guys in the workshop want to sell them on ebay for £200).
Ditto brakes.

etc.

Bascially, if in a service department you mention - even slightly - any "safety" aspect of the car 80% of customers will spend a fortune as they don't want to look reckless in the face of the service manager. It is the oldest trick on the book.

Of course - there are some people will bald tyres, 14% water in the brake fluid and no brakes who will do nothing but not many.

[edo]

Too much gassing and not enough barges being posted chaps....

Strong money, but not many left with this sort of mileage.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

BMW 5 SERIES 535i Sport 4dr Auto 3.5
39700 miles
REDUCED ! Very Low Mileage BMW 535i Sport, only 2 owners from new, Full history & old MOT's, Genuine 39,700 miles, car is in very good condition with no rust, exceptional condition underneath! and has had a lot of money spent keeping it in tip top condition! Whole of front suspension bushes replaced with genuine parts, New upgraded front vented, drilled & grooved discs and pads, 4 nearly new Dunlop 235/45 ZR 17 SP SPORT 9000 Directional Tyres, New M5 rear LED Light clusters. Silver Metallic with Black leather interior, Beautiful Walnut trim, BMW Hi-Fi 6 CD Auto-changer, tape player & Radio, 5 Speed Auto with 'Steptronic' option! Air-Con Climate Control, nice and Cold! Cruise Control, ABS, Trip Computer, 8"x17" Sport Alloys, Elec Windows, Mirrors, Original hand Books, Not on HPI register, New MOT, Tax July 2014, Superb condition, drives Very Well and is Very Quick! Rare Find with this mileage and in this condition ! Must be an absolute Bargain. *Possible Part Exchange Low mileage VW Passat or Audi etc.up to £2k., SILVER, 2 owners, Next MOT due 23/07/2015, Tax expires 31/07/2014, Full service history, Electric windows, Air conditioning, Parking aid, CD player, Leather trim, Height adjustable driver's seat, Height adjustable passenger seat, Sports seats, Metallic paint, Alloy wheels, Spare wheel (Full), Power steering, Steering wheel rake adjustment, Steering wheel reach adjustment, Cruise control, Traction control, Central locking, Alarm, Immobiliser, Driver's airbags, Side airbags, Passenger airbags. £3,495

[Rocksteadyeddie]

confused_buyer said:

jonnydm said:

I'm not sure if it's every service. I think the computer says something like 20k until the next time. They also charge something like £25 for 'Standard scope'. At the end of the day, the service was £240 including collection and drop off and the obligatory valet which was bang on what the local specialist quoted.

Many such items are designed as "upsell" items for the service department which they are usually incentivised (if that is a word) to flog. Top ones are:

Brake fluid change, when the current fluid is ok. (You don't really want to kill your children do you sir?).
Air con clean and re-gas when the current system is working fine.
Coolant flush when the coolant has top spec anti-freeze designed to last 5+ years.
Tyres "a little worn" (have 6mm left - but, again, you don't want to kill your children and the guys in the workshop want to sell them on ebay for £200).
Ditto brakes.

etc.

Bascially, if in a service department you mention - even slightly - any "safety" aspect of the car 80% of customers will spend a fortune as they don't want to look reckless in the face of the service manager. It is the oldest trick on the book.

Of course - there are some people will bald tyres, 14% water in the brake fluid and no brakes who will do nothing but not many.

I find a manual gearbox can help in this regard. Lack of engine braking in an automatic makes getting away with it trickier than it might be.

[E65Ross]

Rocksteadyeddie said:

I find a manual gearbox can help in this regard. Lack of engine braking in an automatic makes getting away with it trickier than it might be.

Why would the auto make a difference? You can manually shift gears in an auto too....

[Lowtimer]

That is of course almost universally true. At the risk of being a smartypants, I was interested recently to read in Autocar that there is no manual override control whatsoever on the transmission of the new Rolls-Royce Wraith.

[idiotgap]

r129sl said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

So as not to raise barge-ist expectations too much, I should add that the aircon system apparently needed things fixing rather than replacing, but the chap did say beforehand that many replacement parts can be sourced pretty cheaply, or even second-hand, fairly readily these days. New compressors and/or evaporators or whatever they are would bump up the cost pretty significantly of course.

Your 129 work sounds pretty major - are you doing to that what you've done to the estate?

I'm quite a big fan of shopping around for new aftermarket parts from OE manufacturers. I've posted before about Behr-Hella/Bilstein/Febi-Bilstein/Lemförder/Sachs-Boge/ZF. New radiator, £120; new condenser, £100 and so on and on. These people make the parts for the manufacturer: often it's only the box and the price that are different. You can get an old German car into very good shape for relatively little expenditure. As a long term proposition it makes sense; less so if you're only keeping for six months.

My 129 is an old and hard-used car. For five years now it has been a constant process of replacing long-term consumables. So it is not an all-at-once renovation as the 124 was, but there is always something that could be made better and safer. The steering was feeling well-worn and unsatisfactory, so after replacing the links and bushes I bought a lightly used steering box (from the excellent Carl Burgess at w140.co.uk) and had it refurbished by the equally excellent Kelly Bray Steering. Then by total coincidence the steering pump started pissing out fluid from the pulley shaft, so I replaced it with a remanufactured one from MB (surprisingly, "only" about £200). Next up is the bodywork but I will have to do some more saving before I start that.

Well, since it's the season for it... my S124 is in at the garage today (indy specialist all the way for me Ross!). I've had some problems with poor high speed stability - a snaking down the road sensation requiring total concentration at motorway speeds, not very relaxing.

I put it down initially to having the bikes on the roof on the low profile oem roof bars which as I now know aren't designed to take a load and flex readily. I need to buy thule etc. or the nice oem load bearing bars that Jonathan got, am mighty peeved with myself I didn't bid hard enough on this amazing lot http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191251863292?orig_cvip=t... .When the holiday was over and I was driving without the bars and bikes again I realised the problem was still evident.

It's been into the indy before about this, he suggested fixing the graunchy nearside rear wheel bearing which was advised on at the x-mas MOT - this was done for £500 along with a couple of bushes nearby but the problem remained. I googled the mb forums and came up with a theory around the steering damper and replaced that myself - used the old hunt for OE equivalent part numbers trick and fitted a febi one on the drive... the old one was definitely shot and it's better, but still not great so it's gone in today to have them pry it about with bars I guess and work out what else needs doing.

It's a bit of a shame because I had hoped to turn my attention to the 107 which is turning 30 later this year - I thought, nice time to get that into a bodyshop for a tidy-up, but depending on the 124 news it might have to wait.

Edited by idiotgap on Thursday 31st July 14:33