Best Smoker Barges 1-5 large [Vol 7]

[confused_buyer]

bmthnick1981 said:

Actually that doesn't include the small £350 'profit' I made on sale and purchase, so total costs more like £3,300. A bargain I think you'll agree.

You'll still have to insure and fuel a lease car. OK, so these costs may be less, but they won't be zero either.

[Adrian E]

E65Ross said:

Adrian E said:

A service and cambelt change on any V8 is unlikely to leave change from 4 figures. I have a receipt for service, belt and new front discs and pads plus various recommissioning bits and bobs that came to £2.5k. It's all about the timing (previous owner picked up that bill!) - unfortunately I love mine so much that next year I will need to caugh up for another cambelt change....

Just as well mine is chain driven then!

Yep, important consideration on barges are those costs which are time based, or fingers crossed!

[lou556]

Good afternoon everyone.

Looking to move into the world of luxury and refinement on a budget, also known as the barge..

I am considering a late E38 7 Series 2000-200 or a MK4 LS400 1998-2000. The 7 Series will undoubtedly offer the more 'sporting' drive and the Lexus will in theory be the more comfortable cruiser. Who has experience with these cars, who can tell me what they are like to live with daily and how much they really cost to run??

All experiences and thoughts are welcome!!

Lewis.

[SpeckledJim]

bmthnick1981 said:

Zwolf said:

jonah35 said:

Can some of you with a bargain barge show average monthly expenses over ownership (excluding fuel and insurance).

E38 750i at 121-123k miles.

Bought in June for £1,850. Sold in Sep for £2,850.
Insurance and breakdown cover for the period: £108.50
Fuel for the period and ~1,400 miles at an average 22mpg: ~£375.00
No bork or routine maintenance required: £0.00
VED: £126.50

So excluding fuel and insurance it cost me -£291.17pm to run (Including them it cost me -£130pm to run).

So yes it works out considerably cheaper than leasing anything for me. Rinse and repeat as required.

Of course it doesn't always work out so favourably, would only take a set of tyres, service and a few extras to tip the balance. But overall it tends to at least pay for itself for me, hence the addiction to bargain barging and a back catalogue of 38 old BMWs 1988-2002 to my name.

And the other side of the same coin (car)

E38 750i at 114,000 to 121,000 miles over 7 months

Bought for £1,500 sold for £1,850

Insurance for period - approx £300

Fuel, say, 7,000 miles at 25 mpg at £1.30 litre = approx £1,600

Maintenance and repairs, MOT etc = £1,635

Must be some tax in there but I can't recall, say £126.50

Total costs over 7 months £3,661.50. Seems a lot, but mostly funded through my business so not all bad. More expensive than leasing, but try leasing a double glazed 5.4 v12 with all the toys. Suspect that would cost a bit.

And back on the (very) cheap side of the coin again,

1994 XJS. Bought February for £1250 (full of water and 170,000 miles)

Refit windscreen £100 ish with new seal
DAB stereo and gubbins, £120 ish
Basic service £50 ish
boot lid gas struts £25
Brake pads - £25 ish
Paintwork - scrape on wing and wheel refurb - £285
3 new ignition coils - £180 ish.
AJ16 Crank timing bracket - 5 degrees advanced - £74

Total cost so far over 8 months - about £700. At least half of that spend is 'voluntary' or 'titivating' as opposed to actual 'upkeep'.

Thanks to an LPG conversion I'm getting the equivalent of 40mpg ish. And aside from a misfire cured by the new coils, it hasn't given a moment's trouble over c.6,000 miles.

[Zwolf]

bmthnick1981 said:

Zwolf said:

jonah35 said:

Can some of you with a bargain barge show average monthly expenses over ownership (excluding fuel and insurance).

E38 750i at 121-123k miles.

And the other side of the same coin (car)

E38 750i at 114,000 to 121,000 miles over 7 months

Quite so, it'd have stung me for more maintenance eventually had I kept it. Didn't think it'd sell so quickly after going up - my last two took 6 and 9 months respectively at similarly cheeky prices.

Now on the hunt for a replacement that may well be diesel powered, as much as it galls me. Unless a decent, already LPG converted E38/E65 V8 turns up first.

[Stegel]

Just come across this on Twitter (Kicking Tyres) - it's a list of scrappage scheme casualties. It is raw data, so spelling mistakes and uncontrolled fields means many categories only show one car, but a few MB 560 coupes and saloons got the chop, as did some 600s, but it certainly thinned out 300e and 300TEs. Some sad one-offs such as a Mexico (Ford, not Maserati, although I haven't checked) but we only need to sigh at the barges:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Pah!! just noticed it features on the PH front page - my only excuse is I had surgery yesterday and probably am still woozy!

Edited by Stegel on Monday 29th September 17:03

Edited by Stegel on Monday 29th September 17:04

[lou556]

lou556 said:

I am considering a late E38 7 Series 2000-200 or a MK4 LS400 1998-2000. The 7 Series will undoubtedly offer the more 'sporting' drive and the Lexus will in theory be the more comfortable cruiser. Who has experience with these cars, who can tell me what they are like to live with daily and how much they really cost to run??

All experiences and thoughts are welcome!!

Lewis.

Anyone with any ownership experiences they would like to share?

[Laidback66]

lou556 said:

Good afternoon everyone.

Looking to move into the world of luxury and refinement on a budget, also known as the barge..

I am considering a late E38 7 Series 2000-200 or a MK4 LS400 1998-2000. The 7 Series will undoubtedly offer the more 'sporting' drive and the Lexus will in theory be the more comfortable cruiser. Who has experience with these cars, who can tell me what they are like to live with daily and how much they really cost to run??

All experiences and thoughts are welcome!!

Lewis.

Hi Lewis.

Interesting choice there.

The Lexus is a superbly engineered piece of kit, but now becoming hard to find a good Mk4, simply because those who own them have no intentions of letting them go!
There are many who rate it as one of the best engineered cars ever made, and to be honest, having driven one, it is superb (but the LS430 is even better in my opinion).
Aside of the cambelt change, and suspension wear and tear (it has conventional springs unlike the LS430 that has air suspension) very little goes wrong.

The BMW is just beautiful as far as barges go.
Great shape, and excellent to drive (it has been a while but I remember it being a lovely place to be).
There are others on here who will know them far better than me (not difficult) but I would expect it would not be as bork free a proposition as the Lexus.

It is a question of what you want out of it.
If driver involvement is important, then the BMW is the way to go.
If you want to get from A to B in absolute serenity then that will be the Lexus.

I have had a similar conversation with myself recently and have been trying out the LS430, Audi A8 and the BMW 745i.

While the Audi was great fun to drive and very rewarding, the repair costs when things go wrong are eye-watering! Damn it is nice though...

The BMW is a very pleasant place to be, but the styling is not to everyone's taste.
The engine is a peach though and makes a great noise when pushed hard and held in gear.
My only gripe was the seats were not as good the Audi's and the level of toys does vary a lot.

The Lexus really surprised me. It is not the prettiest car (said with a hint of understatement) but get inside and things are very different.
It is quieter than either of the above (which were not exactly noisy!) and the comfort was sublime.

It made me realise, that what I want from a barge is to waft around in comfort and serenity, and to me the Lexus did that better then anything else I have driven.
Oh and the sound systems in both the LS400 and the LS430 are amazing!

Edited by Laidback66 on Monday 29th September 17:26

[E65Ross]

lou556 said:

Anyone with any ownership experiences they would like to share?

I ran an E38 728i for a little over 2 years. It was a great, reliable car. The engine was smooth as silk, gearbox was good.

Things to look for are worn suspension parts - check for an even ride height all round (just check finger widths under the arches to the tyres), any creaking noises or knocking going over bumps etc. Check for even tyre wear.

Cooling systems - a weak point but they aren't that expensive to sort

Fuel tank leak - a biggy on the E38s, can cost almost £1k to sort so worth seeing if it's been done or not, check on meeknet for where they leak (the neck between the filler pipe and the tank is most common).

Gearbox - lots of people have talked about these being common issues, and they are to an extent. I got my E38 at 115k if I remember correctly. The gearbox was smooth as silk and hadn't had an oil change, I had it changed, sold the car to another PHer on about 138k IIRC and the gearbox was smooth as silk still. I'd get it done anyway. Some say if it ain't broke don't fix it; I don't buy that. You still change engine oil before your engine is fked.

Rocker cover gaskets - a known weak point, especially the V8s I think which can leak into the spark plug hole and cause firing issues - hardly a big job.

Don't let this list put you off. They're very good cars, and capable of driving big miles in a day and leaving you stress-free. The Lexus may be a better barge but trust me, the E38 is not a bad place to spend time. I think the interior on E38's looks far nicer than the Lexus. In fact the whole car looks nicer. The 728i is amazingly economical on the motorway too, to the point you wouldn't believe me.

[FerdiZ28]

Stegel said:

Just come across this on Twitter (Kicking Tyres) - it's a list of scrappage scheme casualties. It is raw data, so spelling mistakes and uncontrolled fields means many categories only show one car, but a few MB 560 coupes and saloons got the chop, as did some 600s, but it certainly thinned out 300e and 300TEs. Some sad one-offs such as a Mexico (Ford, not Maserati, although I haven't checked) but we only need to sigh at the barges:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Pah!! just noticed it features on the PH front page - my only excuse is I had surgery yesterday and probably am still woozy!

Edited by Stegel on Monday 29th September 17:03

Edited by Stegel on Monday 29th September 17:04

It appears I was the only person in the country to scrap a Xsara VTS. Rest in pieces, T969MJN, you made the ultimate sacrifice so the wife could have a new Jazz.

[Pickled]

I don't tend to keep an eye on costs of car I run (blind ignorance is best IMO ) But my last two barges have cost thus:

Merc S430, purchase price £1100,
Insurance £240
4 x Bridgestone tyres £540 (only two really needed doing at the time but there were on offer so had all 4 done)
MOT £50
Oil & filter service (DIY) £50
1 x rear bulb £1.00
Fuel 6000(ish) miles @ 24 MPG = approx £1300
Tax £230

Total cost excluding purchase 40.01p per mile and including purchase price 58.5p per mile

BMW E39 540i

Purchase price £1400
Insurance £280
MOT £50
DIY serivce £150
Waterpump £110
Fanbelt £29
Tax £230
Fuel (again around 6000 miles) approx £1300
Sold for £1700

Cost excluding purchase/sale 35.8p per mile and including sale/purchase price 30.8p per mile

I guess I've been fortunate with pretty much all of my barges in that of the several dozen I've owned over the years, none have ever thrown up expensive bills, and pretty much most of them I've been happy to fix on the drive (including dropping an M30 3.5 lump into my E30 touring) although doing the head gasket on my E34 535i many years ago did test my patience as it was the middle of winter and my hands were blue with cold, as did doing all 12 plugs on my E32 750, but this to me is part and parcel of barge ownership.

[jke11y]

FerdiZ28 said:

It appears I was the only person in the country to scrap a Xsara VTS. Rest in pieces, T969MJN, you made the ultimate sacrifice so the wife could have a new Jazz.

i see an Alpina B7 in the list, as well as a few 8 series. Oddly a G wagon listed as well, can't believe even the worst case runner would have been worth scrapping.

[BlackGT3]

lou556 said:

lou556 said:

I am considering a late E38 7 Series 2000-200 or a MK4 LS400 1998-2000. The 7 Series will undoubtedly offer the more 'sporting' drive and the Lexus will in theory be the more comfortable cruiser. Who has experience with these cars, who can tell me what they are like to live with daily and how much they really cost to run??

All experiences and thoughts are welcome!!

Lewis.

Anyone with any ownership experiences they would like to share?

I purchased a 2000 W reg 740 Sport Silver with Black Leather in 2009 for 3K. The car had covered approx 120K miles and had been used for distance traveling by the previous owner. The car had a full service history with supporting invoices with a recent recon Gearbox, new springs and damper, battery, brakes and various sensors plus odds and ends. The car drove very well and new suspension provided a comfortable ride on sports dampers. A car of this vintage is always going to need maintenance and things fixing. It let me down twice, once was a blown hose and the second time was the aux rad fan.

The E38 is generally well built and reliable (exception of the gearbox) but with age many components with be worn. Ideally, most if not all of the suspension bushes and ball joints etc needed replacing as mind did suffer from the dreaded shimmy. Further, the cooling systems on these cars would benefit from an refresh with replacement hoses, this costs approx 600 quid. Other than that, mine needed a new water pump, tyres, brake pipes, track rod ends and the rocker cover gasket replacing.

As you would expect they can suffer from rust in the usual places and they are prone to fuel tank failure. Mine averaged 21 MPG mixed driving. I sold it for 1,780GBP in Oct 2012. I had call that I would consider a serious purchaser in a mth advertising it on PH. He brought the car.

[lou556]

Thank you for your feedback everyone.

I am seriously considering a 728i. After much deliberation I have decided that the 7 Series would be much better suited to my driving style and will hopefully offer a fine mix of driving enjoyment, luxury and economy (it's all relative)

For those who have owned a 728i, what mpg did you average on long runs? How did you find performance at motorway speeds i.e 60-70 mph? How do you rate overall refinement at speed?

Thank you again for your responses and any further feedback.

Lewis

[E65Ross]

lou556 said:

Thank you for your feedback everyone.

I am seriously considering a 728i. After much deliberation I have decided that the 7 Series would be much better suited to my driving style and will hopefully offer a fine mix of driving enjoyment, luxury and economy (it's all relative)

For those who have owned a 728i, what mpg did you average on long runs? How did you find performance at motorway speeds i.e 60-70 mph? How do you rate overall refinement at speed?

Thank you again for your responses and any further feedback.

Lewis

Average economy on long runs well into the 30's, cruising at 70mph will give 35+mpg (no, really!). Refinement is amazing for a car built from the early-mid 90's. It's more refined and quiet than most modern cars (e.g. a 3 series, A4 etc).

Motorway acceleration defies it's 0-60mph time (slow time due to the gearbox), once up to speed it's really not too bad at all. I'd probably find it slow now after the 745i but it'll happily keep with modern traffic. The gearing is very tall which is great for refinement and economy; it does 3000rpm at 100mph IIRC.

[Zwolf]

Yep, what Ross said. The best E38 after the V12 for me. Fantastic mile munchers.

[MJK 24]

bmthnick1981 said:

MJK 24 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, it's now a W124 Coupe running a 300 six pot turbo diesel. He's done a mountain of work to the car using only genuine parts so it looks factory. It's a great thread if you have an hour or do spare to read it.

Got a link to said thread?

Ta-da!!

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/135435/88-m...

From 3.0 six petrol to 3.0 six turbo diesel.

[0a]

MJK 24 said:

Ta-da!!

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/135435/88-m...

From 3.0 six petrol to 3.0 six turbo diesel.

Lovely wheels and I rather like the colour combo

[E65Ross]

0a said:

Lovely wheels and I rather like the colour combo

Lovely shot, although to go from 3.0 petrol to diesel, argh, poor chap.

[0a]

E65Ross said:

0a said:

Lovely wheels and I rather like the colour combo

Lovely shot, although to go from 3.0 petrol to diesel, argh, poor chap.

I make no comment!