Best Smoker Barges 1-5 large [Vol 7]

[E24man]

Leggy M62 engines will sound more rattly than leggy M60's due to the ageing VANOS of the former.

I suspect 99.9% of M62 and M60 engines are pretty leggy now.

[Blown2CV]

E24man said:

Leggy M62 engines will sound more rattly than leggy M60's due to the ageing VANOS of the former.

I suspect 99.9% of M62 and M60 engines are pretty leggy now.

well it's quite hilly that M62 so I can see why that might create more wear.

[E65Ross]

hornetrider said:

E65Ross said:

I don't think I've been in a later M62 4.4, I went in an M60 which wasn't as smooth.... How is the smoothness of a late E38 740i compared to the N62B44 in mine? I will say it's very smooth indeed and you couldn't say it was noticeably less smooth than the 2.8 in my old 728i

I remember my 728i being turbine smooth most of the way up the rev range, the V8 is also like that to a point, but has a lovely harder edge when things get lively. I can understand why the 6/12 is the preference in a big old barge like the 7.

Interesting to hear another comparison. How is the 550i?

My bank balance is soon to get raped on car expenses

[egor110]

Motorrad said:

downthepub said:

Have we had this Volvo 850 R yet? A mate of mine is eyeing it up.... If the FSH is super-awesome, I guess the 190K on the clock shouldn't be that off putting?

BTW, that R129 up in Fulham went pretty quickly. Didn't get a chance to view it. Boo.

Far too much for a leggy 850 with faulty aircon. It's a fecking auto as well.

Surely all barges should be auto?

[hornetrider]

E65Ross said:

Interesting to hear another comparison. How is the 550i?

My bank balance is soon to get raped on car expenses

Very well mate, cheers. Doesn't cost me a bean except fuel. *touches wood*

Experienced the chalk and cheese over the weekend. Gave it some mild hammer up through Mid Wales (A40/A470/A483) on Friday evening and dear god does it shift, it absolutely marmalises good A roads and warps the horizon in a very good way. You never even have to go above 5k and timing the changes with a good old stick shift is

Then on the way back down I wasn't in a rush, just bimbled along in traffic tickling the big old lump along nice and quietly and averaged over 30 empeegees. Love it.

[Motorrad]

egor110 said:

Surely all barges should be auto?

Barges yes.

Am 850R though? Has less power and is more fragile in auto form. A manual in good order might be worth the 2+ grand asking price but an auto with fked aircon (probably a dash out job to fix) no thanks.

[Lowtimer]

egor110 said:

Surely all barges should be auto?

Certainly not! I went to considerable lengths to avoid an auto when I bought mine. There are individual types of barge that should be autos but not all barges by any means.

[egor110]

Lowtimer said:

egor110 said:

Surely all barges should be auto?

Certainly not! I went to considerable lengths to avoid an auto when I bought mine. There are individual types of barge that should be autos but not all barges by any means.

Interesting.

If i want a barge i want to waft around with minimum effort or fuss so auto is a must for me , if i want gears i want something fast and sporty not wafty.

(currently wafting around in £1000 grand cherokee)

[Jobbo]

Pickled said:

E65Ross said:

I don't think I've been in a later M62 4.4, I went in an M60 which wasn't as smooth.... How is the smoothness of a late E38 740i compared to the N62B44 in mine? I will say it's very smooth indeed and you couldn't say it was noticeably less smooth than the 2.8 in my old 728i

I've had 2 M62 V8s in both 3.5 and 4.4 flavour, but I reckon the sweetest V8 was the 3.0 M60 In an E34 530 Touring I had, I do wonder whether it was because the E34 was manual, it just seemed more eager to rev.

I concur on the M60 3.0 in the E34 - mine was an auto but fits your description as the sweetest BMW V8 of the lot. It was uncannily turbine-like, if rather lacking in torque. That wasn't helped by the high gearing of the auto box, even the late 5-sp adaptive one (2nd ran to over 70, from memory).

In contrast the M62 4.4 in my 540i was more as you'd expect from a V8, particularly when the exhaust pipe bolts all rusted through at the same time. I thought a TVR had started up behind me The N62 4.4 in my 545is was almost bland in comparison; quiet, smooth but a little characterless.

[r129sl]

0a said:

r129sl said:

The 300 CDT thread has cost me a pretty penny this morning...

More please!

By which I mean I spent two hours reading it instead of two hours working in my self-employment!!

[KrisP]

egor110 said:

Surely all barges should be auto?

Whilst some on here have already disagreed, I think the auto boxes do improve things an awful lot in the more modern of barges, and as they start to filter down to our price bracket we may appreciate them more. I have an e39 540ia at the moment, and there are a few times I would love a manual box and the greater control, so if it had one of those ZF 8 speed boxes that the modern equivalent has I think I would find the cravings for manual control would recede a litte. To clarify further, I don't mean the manual stiring of the lever and 'involvement' from doing so in conjuction with the 3rd pedal, but more that the 8spd would give me better access to the performance when I need it and not be do dimwitted as the 'box it has fitted, which I find can hinder progress somewhat at times

[E65Ross]

Jobbo said:

The N62 4.4 in my 545is was almost bland in comparison; quiet, smooth but a little characterless.

Seriously?! It's a lovely engine imo!

[egor110]

KrisP said:

egor110 said:

Surely all barges should be auto?

Whilst some on here have already disagreed, I think the auto boxes do improve things an awful lot in the more modern of barges, and as they start to filter down to our price bracket we may appreciate them more. I have an e39 540ia at the moment, and there are a few times I would love a manual box and the greater control, so if it had one of those ZF 8 speed boxes that the modern equivalent has I think I would find the cravings for manual control would recede a litte. To clarify further, I don't mean the manual stiring of the lever and 'involvement' from doing so in conjuction with the 3rd pedal, but more that the 8spd would give me better access to the performance when I need it and not be do dimwitted as the 'box it has fitted, which I find can hinder progress somewhat at times

I'd worry that a newer 8 speed box would be a ticking timebomb in the 1-5k price range.

[E65Ross]

egor110 said:

I'd worry that a newer 8 speed box would be a ticking timebomb in the 1-5k price range.

Why? I certainly wouldn't worry any more about it than any of the other gearboxes out there which were once brand new and cutting edge technology.

[Caruso]

Zwolf said:

Yep, that, having also run a 735i and tried 740is and never gelled with them in the same way.

A V8 is fine for a Five, but the six and twelve are both more refined - the V12 doesn't need an angry top end - the delivery is all low down and mid range and that's wher eyou spend most of your time in a two tonne + slushmatic barge with intergalactic gearing. They're not *about* redline chasing.

That said, the V12 still pulls harder than the V8 and will get ahead of one, "top end" or not, via less than scientific testing methods previously employed.

A 4.4 Sport is a crisper steer than a V12 admittedly, but again I'd be looking at a B10/M5 if I wanted something to handle better and go quicker.

Heaven would be a (well, on eof the six RHD ones) B12 6.0 SWB with its conservative 430 ponies...

Less about how fast you go and more about how you go fast (and more saliently, how you go all the time). The V12 has an appeal all it's own and bald figures don't convey it.

Neither is "wrong" BTW, opinions just vary.

Dammit man, you've started my V12 itch going again!

[Jobbo]

E65Ross said:

Jobbo said:

The N62 4.4 in my 545is was almost bland in comparison; quiet, smooth but a little characterless.

Seriously?! It's a lovely engine imo!

Yes, seriously - that's why I posted it. It's very linear in its power delivery, it's very quiet and smooth and does everything well. I investigated fitting an Alpina B5 exhaust to my second 545i (apparently it bolts straight on) to give it some character but never got round to it. FWIW, the same engine in the 6-series has a much more fruity exhaust note so it's just how it's tuned in the 5 and 7 applications which makes it a bit characterless. Does what it's supposed to do though; plenty of power and unobtrusive about it.

[egor110]

E65Ross said:

egor110 said:

I'd worry that a newer 8 speed box would be a ticking timebomb in the 1-5k price range.

Why? I certainly wouldn't worry any more about it than any of the other gearboxes out there which were once brand new and cutting edge technology.

For the same reason that newer more modern diesel engines are going wrong compared to the 90's versions.

90's ones were old tech but it was solid , reliable, fixable and if your spending under 5k that's what i want, if i was spending 5-10k then i'd opt for newer tech.

[Fox-]

egor110 said:

Surely all barges should be auto?

My 530i is a manual. I preferred manual partly for driving 'fun' reasons but also to limit my exposure to bork - old autos go wrong and cost a fortune and the fuel economy penalty is significant. My 530d is an auto because BMW pay the bills if the box explodes and the 8 speed is awesome.

I think if I was buying another older barge, it'd be a manual for the above reasons.

[downthepub]

Motorrad said:

Barges yes.

Am 850R though? Has less power and is more fragile in auto form. A manual in good order might be worth the 2+ grand asking price but an auto with fked aircon (probably a dash out job to fix) no thanks.

Good to know. Cheers.

[Krikkit]

egor110 said:

For the same reason that newer more modern diesel engines are going wrong compared to the 90's versions.

90's ones were old tech but it was solid , reliable, fixable and if your spending under 5k that's what i want, if i was spending 5-10k then i'd opt for newer tech.

Yes and no. The new ZF 8-speeders will probably be a very solid box indeed as a lot of the internals are (relatively) old tech with a bit of spice on top.

New diesels have had a lot of immature technology forced on them by emissions regs, whereas the modern auto has had time to mature quite nicely. A dual-clutch box would be another matter though imo.