Best Smoker Barges 1-5 large [Vol 7]

[KrisP]

Whats the cheapest barge fitted with the ZF 8speed auto? Are they anywhere near thread budget as yet?

[Zwolf]

KrisP said:

Whats the cheapest barge fitted with the ZF 8speed auto? Are they anywhere near thread budget as yet?

It debuted in the F02 760Li in 2009/10, so we won't see it here for quite a while.

Other applications of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

[SpeckledJim]

E65Ross said:

SpeckledJim said:

E65Ross said:

harry kular said:

A well sorted e39 m5 is a lovely, lovely thing. Probably the best car BMW have made.

The gearshift quality always frustrated me though- never kept it long enough to try and rectify it...

I'm playing devil's advocate here.... But for what the M5 is all about, is the E39 better than an F10? The F10 rides very well indeed, has a nice interior, is more quiet, more efficient, has more perfor and a gearbox very fitting for the type of car it is; they also look rather nice.

Only potential let down is the lack of engine noise.... But I can't see what the E39 does better than the F10?

Plonk itself squarely on your gravel drive from less than £5k.

Objectively the F10 might be better, but it's not 10 times better.

So, relatively, it's worse!

(barge thread, barge philosophy!)

(and it looks MILES better)

The point made was that the E39 M5 was the best car they've ever made.... Not the best car they'd made which can be had for 5k....

I think if we're judging 'best ever' that has to be considered in the context of the times.

Is the latest Scirocco 2.0TDi a better car than the Mk1 Golf GTi?

I'd say not, despite all sorts of factual reasons why you could argue it was.

[RobinBanks]

KrisP said:

Whats the cheapest barge fitted with the ZF 8speed auto? Are they anywhere near thread budget as yet?

I wouldn't have thought so. I'll hazard a guess that Jaguar XFs might get there before any others, but I'm not sure.

[Blown2CV]

RobinBanks said:

KrisP said:

Whats the cheapest barge fitted with the ZF 8speed auto? Are they anywhere near thread budget as yet?

I wouldn't have thought so. I'll hazard a guess that Jaguar XFs might get there before any others, but I'm not sure.

facelift XFs post 2011/12 have the 8sp. Even at the skydiving rate that they depreciate, will be a while yet. To be honest the 6sp tended to hunt around a lot and the 8sp is at least as bad.

[KrisP]

Zwolf said:

It debuted in the F02 760Li in 2009/10, so we won't see it here for quite a while.

Other applications of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Thanks for that (and all the other replies)

What I really want is an F10 535i petrol with said box, but the cost to buy is hard to stomach when the cost of depreciation is taken into account.

Is it so hard to find a nice mid to large saloon without a really dimwitted box? I currently have an e39 540 auto and an e46 M3 manual, and trying to replace with one car that will sit in traffic without annoying the hell out of me (see auto) whilst still having some decent poke for fun on the odd occasion the roads allow

[barchetta_boy]

I thought the 5 speed steptronic in my E46 330i was superb. Always seemed to be in the right gear, and would drop either 1 cog or 2 seemingly at will depending on how firmly I depressed the loud pedal.

That car did like a drink but the engine and gearbox were just brilliant.

[E65Ross]

Having experienced a few 5, 6 and 7 speed boxes as well as the 8 speed box I think the 8 is magnificent. It's changes so smooth you don't noticed if it hunts at all imo. I suspect it'd depend on the car in que, mind.

I still wish I had 7 or 8 gears in the 745i.... The gearing is so tall which is how I'd like it most of the time, it makes wafting so relaxing but it does blunt the performance a little.

[RenesisEvo]

Perhaps my experiences of autoboxes is rather limited to have a decent opinion, but I drove a 420d with the ZF 8 speed and I was not blown away by it - yet many seem to positively rave about it. What am I missing?

The low speed control seemed easier to deal with than a Ford Powershift unit, which seemed to give you nothing or too much when trying to move off smoothly. I still found the ZF to be a bit jerky when it chose to drop a cog going up a slope; that might be a 'mapping' thing - sport mode hung on to some gears too long (wouldn't go into 8th when cruising); comfort/eco refused to shift down unless you forced the pedal through the bulkhead.

[Blown2CV]

i wonder how long it will be before we get cars that have a dial instead of modes. I always find modes to be too restrictive, as you say. I don't want to be pressing stloads of buttons when i change 'mode', and leaving it in a single mode is often not an option even within a single journey!

I would have thought the 8sp ZF in the 420d would have been great though, as it would keep it bang in the power band, which i guess is inherently narrower on a 4-pot diesel, and also nice tall top ratio to maximise cruising economy. I think it was a welcome addition to the XF as the big diesels with 6sp had pretty crap cruising economy.

[RenesisEvo]

Blown2CV said:

I would have thought the 8sp ZF in the 420d would have been great though, as it would keep it bang in the power band, which i guess is inherently narrower on a 4-pot diesel, and also nice tall top ratio to maximise cruising economy.

That is exactly what it offers - but it can't switch between the two (power or economy) unless you tell it. In Comfort mode it always keeps below the powerband at really low rpm to save fuel, and it rapidly shifts up when you accelerate gently. But it responds very, very poorly so is useless for slotting into gaps on roundabouts, etc. The kickdown takes forever to respond if at all. In sport mode, it keeps the engine just above 2000rpm, comfortably in the peak torque range so you do get response, but it won't shift up out of it when you settle back into a cruise; so you stay in 7th at 2100rpm rather than dropping into 8th.

So for a motorway slip road for example, you have to select sport to get any response/acceleration when joining, then set it back in comfort when you're cruising to get it to shift up to the highest gear. You have to keep changing modes to get the best out of it, or admit defeat and drive around it, which annoyed me (and probably other road users). There's no single mode that works well (for me anyway) all the time, which can be frustrating.

PS I wrote more about my experience here: http://www.roadmag.co.uk/2014/08/30/bmw-420d-coupe...

[Krikkit]

Sounds like pretty poor programming and/or a consequence of having to cope with a modern 4-pot diesel in performance terms. That's completely at odds with my experiences of a Jag XF 2.7S with the 8-speed where it's responsive and calming where necessary, in fact they're my tip for a good barge purchase in about 5 years (obviously in petrol V6 or V8 format, although the diesel engine is a cracker it's not really in keeping with this thread).

[Blown2CV]

Krikkit said:

Sounds like pretty poor programming and/or a consequence of having to cope with a modern 4-pot diesel in performance terms. That's completely at odds with my experiences of a Jag XF 2.7S with the 8-speed where it's responsive and calming where necessary, in fact they're my tip for a good barge purchase in about 5 years (obviously in petrol V6 or V8 format, although the diesel engine is a cracker it's not really in keeping with this thread).

not sure i agree. The XF was designed when Jag was on its arse, and much of the electronics is real lowest bidder stuff. Jags have never been a marque with a super reliable product, but when that is largely a mechanical product that's one thing... with a largely electronic one, it's a totally different ballgame. The previous generation XJ came in when cars were starting to become very electronically intensive, but it sold in really quite low number for a number of years. The XF was their first foray into this world, bringing the brand up to date, and it's sold well. The residuals are awful however, and that tells a story. From first-hand experience it seems they fill this awkward slot in the spectrum of cars, where they are expensive to fix but not built from good quality components. Maybe the facelift is better, but as to whether it's the buy of the century - dunno about that.

[RenesisEvo]

Inspired by the silver car earlier, I'd struggle to walk past this instead - a haggle away from budget, great colour combination (IMO), smaller wheels. 'With service history' the only concern, as that suggests it's not full, i.e. there are gaps.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...



'What's the worst that could happen?' Etc.

[HD Adam]

RenesisEvo said:

Inspired by the silver car earlier, I'd struggle to walk past this instead - a haggle away from budget, great colour combination (IMO), smaller wheels. 'With service history' the only concern, as that suggests it's not full, i.e. there are gaps.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...



'What's the worst that could happen?' Etc.

My old 1997 D2 is still going strong at 205,000 miles.

It had 170k and full service history on it when I got it for shed money as passes the MOT every year.

Phenomenal build quality. The only thing that doesn't work is the adjustable drivers head rest which is at the right height for me so I can't be arsed to investigate it.

There is the old chocolate gearbox issue on the V8 but I'd just get the filter & fluid changed at a specialist and be happy.

[E65Ross]

RenesisEvo said:

Inspired by the silver car earlier, I'd struggle to walk past this instead - a haggle away from budget, great colour combination (IMO), smaller wheels. 'With service history' the only concern, as that suggests it's not full, i.e. there are gaps.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...



'What's the worst that could happen?' Etc.

That is an absolutely lovely colour combination!

[Baryonyx]

Krikkit said:

Sounds like pretty poor programming and/or a consequence of having to cope with a modern 4-pot diesel in performance terms. That's completely at odds with my experiences of a Jag XF 2.7S with the 8-speed where it's responsive and calming where necessary, in fact they're my tip for a good barge purchase in about 5 years (obviously in petrol V6 or V8 format, although the diesel engine is a cracker it's not really in keeping with this thread).

I'm quite happy with the ancient 5 speed in my XJ. I thought the box in my A8 was quite good too, but then that could well be the punch of a decent V8 engine overcoming any shortcomings in gearing or selection. That said, my eyes have been opened to a new world of automatic enjoyment. I had previously derided most of the fancy new gearboxes as useless frippery.

I remember being in an MR2 with the semi-automatic shifter, that was dire. Then tried a TT 3.2 with DSG, also quite nonplussed once the novelty had worn off. On Friday night, I had a trip out in my dad's Boxster S with the PDK transmission and I was absolutely astounded with the technology. Never out of punch, seamlessly shifting and finding the right gear, barking and popping as it goes, just magic stuff.

[radiodanno]

Not familiar with this power plant - but am the cars.

It's not REALLY getting anywhere NEAR 50mpg? Is it??

[Justayellowbadge]

HD Adam said:

My old 1997 D2 is still going strong at 205,000 miles.

It had 170k and full service history on it when I got it for shed money as passes the MOT every year.

Phenomenal build quality. The only thing that doesn't work is the adjustable drivers head rest which is at the right height for me so I can't be arsed to investigate it.

There is the old chocolate gearbox issue on the V8 but I'd just get the filter & fluid changed at a specialist and be happy.

My D2 was only a 2.8, but in sport flavour.

Bloody bulletproof thing. Still just about the best day to day place to sit I can think of.

[GCH]

Ruinous?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-RS6-Avant-4-2-quatt...

EDIT- direct link doesn't work for some reason? Ebay item #121373275991