RE: Evora S Sports Racer: Intro
Discussion
speedjockey said:
You have got to be kidding! A 911, an Evora or a three series? That is not the same Venn diagram. Sorry if it's been said before (not going to wade through 16 pages'worth of postings) but surely the best argument for the Lotus against the Porsches is looking at the classifieds for the oldest Evoras and the equivalent Pork - Caymen are ten a penny but I've ever seen one(!) Evora drop below £30K and that was a 65,000 mile example (which would have been absolutely cracking value compared to the others given that it was advertised at £26K).
The depreciation on high priced, mass produced cars - including modern Porsches - scares me s**tless.
The depreciation on high priced, mass produced cars - including modern Porsches - scares me s**tless.
ads_green said:
I just wish that instead of the 2+2 option they binned the rear seat and used the space to tilt the engine forward rather than backwards. Would have also allowed a lower rear roof line
I don't think the engine is tilted at all, looking at the wireframes. IIRC, they did intend to also build a two seater with a longitudinal V6, but it got abandoned. Whether Lotus should have gone down that path before attempting a 2+2 is debatable, but such a car wouldn't have been an "Evora".
ads_green said:
I just wish that instead of the 2+2 option they binned the rear seat and used the space to tilt the engine forward rather than backwards. Would have also allowed a lower rear roof line
If they had done this, I wouldn't have bought one, I would have bought a 997, it is useful to have occasional rear seats. The Evora can be specced as a 2 seater only, but the vast majority are 2+2.In reality there are very few 2+2 sports cars, there are plenty of GT cars, so its nice to have a choice.
"+2 packaging is tricky in a sports car, Lotus do it by mounting an engine transversly and a little high, Porsche do it by hanging the engine a bit further back than ideal. Both are compromoses both are mitigated by good dsign of suspension and electronic anti skid aids etc.
Driving the Evora, it does not feel as if the mass is high, it corners with minimal roll and changes direction very swiftly
blueg33 said:
If they had done this, I wouldn't have bought one, I would have bought a 997, it is useful to have occasional rear seats. The Evora can be specced as a 2 seater only, but the vast majority are 2+2.
In reality there are very few 2+2 sports cars, there are plenty of GT cars, so its nice to have a choice.
"+2 packaging is tricky in a sports car, Lotus do it by mounting an engine transversly and a little high, Porsche do it by hanging the engine a bit further back than ideal. Both are compromoses both are mitigated by good dsign of suspension and electronic anti skid aids etc.
Driving the Evora, it does not feel as if the mass is high, it corners with minimal roll and changes direction very swiftly
Agree, I haven't bought one but want to, and I wouldn't want to if it wasn't a +2. It is definitely as sports car and not a GT as you say. Agree on the high mass point too, although you do become more aware of it on a high speed long corner, more so than in the Elise anyway. But generally I'm not sure the Elise would see which way it went, it feels like a very quick car indeed.In reality there are very few 2+2 sports cars, there are plenty of GT cars, so its nice to have a choice.
"+2 packaging is tricky in a sports car, Lotus do it by mounting an engine transversly and a little high, Porsche do it by hanging the engine a bit further back than ideal. Both are compromoses both are mitigated by good dsign of suspension and electronic anti skid aids etc.
Driving the Evora, it does not feel as if the mass is high, it corners with minimal roll and changes direction very swiftly
Much as I want lotus to do well, this car just doesn't have enough going for it.
How can the main unique selling point of a sports car be it has back seats. .? I know it has more to it but that's the only thing that stuck out to me when it was released a few years back.
With its high price tag that's the final nail in the coffin. I'm afraid this might be one of the few times Lotus got it wrong just like the 90s Elan being front wheel drive.
How can the main unique selling point of a sports car be it has back seats. .? I know it has more to it but that's the only thing that stuck out to me when it was released a few years back.
With its high price tag that's the final nail in the coffin. I'm afraid this might be one of the few times Lotus got it wrong just like the 90s Elan being front wheel drive.
Midshipracer said:
Much as I want lotus to do well, this car just doesn't have enough going for it.
How can the main unique selling point of a sports car be it has back seats. .? I know it has more to it but that's the only thing that stuck out to me when it was released a few years back.
With its high price tag that's the final nail in the coffin. I'm afraid this might be one of the few times Lotus got it wrong just like the 90s Elan being front wheel drive.
The main unique selling point is the fact that it has an almost peerless chassis and is an absolute delight to drive. It won EVO car of the year for goodness sake. It has two extra seats, which makes it more unique still.How can the main unique selling point of a sports car be it has back seats. .? I know it has more to it but that's the only thing that stuck out to me when it was released a few years back.
With its high price tag that's the final nail in the coffin. I'm afraid this might be one of the few times Lotus got it wrong just like the 90s Elan being front wheel drive.
It also looks fabulous and exotic. What is the unique selling point of most sports cars?
Midshipracer said:
Much as I want lotus to do well, this car just doesn't have enough going for it.
How can the main unique selling point of a sports car be it has back seats. .? I know it has more to it but that's the only thing that stuck out to me when it was released a few years back.
With its high price tag that's the final nail in the coffin. I'm afraid this might be one of the few times Lotus got it wrong just like the 90s Elan being front wheel drive.
I am not sure I understand, what doesn't it have going for it?How can the main unique selling point of a sports car be it has back seats. .? I know it has more to it but that's the only thing that stuck out to me when it was released a few years back.
With its high price tag that's the final nail in the coffin. I'm afraid this might be one of the few times Lotus got it wrong just like the 90s Elan being front wheel drive.
Fantastic steering and intuitive handling acknowledged to be amongst the best road cars
Compliant ride
Great looks (subjective to be fair, and its hard to photograph well) but to many it looks like a super car, indeed mine is referred to by work colleagues as "Nicks super car"
N/a car has similar 0-60 times to both Cayman S and a 911
The Evora S is up there with the current carrera s
Occasional rear seats like the 911
Lower running costs than a 911
| Car | 0-62 | top Speed | Price |
| 911 c2 | 4.8 | 179 | £73,509 |
| Cayman S | 5.0 | 175 | £48,783 |
| 911 c2s | 4.5 | 188 | £83,545 |
| Evora n/a | 5.0 | 163 | £54,500 |
| Evora S | 4.6 | 167 | £63,400 |
So we can see that the n/a evora is nore expensive than the Cayman, but has extra seats and similar performance, it is slightly slower than the 911 but is £19k cheaper. The Evora S is pretty much the same performance as the C2s but is £20k cheaper (top Speeds ignored as not relevant to real driving, but the Porsches have higher top speeds). So if you don't need back seats the Cayman S is probably better value new, but indications are that depreciation is heavier than on the Evora. Price is basic model price except on the Evora where I have included the rear seat option.
nb. car and driver road test of the n/a Evora showed 0-62 at 4.8 secs and the Evora out braked both the Cayman S and the 911. Standing quarter for the 911 c2s (PDK) are a little higher than the Evora so the 911 is quicker accelerating at higher speeds but PDK car is quicker than the manual. In the table I have compared manual transmission cars.
As far as I can tell the only real issues are: dodgy build quality (really its not that bad, people who have read about poor build quality and then sat in my Evora don't understand the comment); lack of dealers and possibly original purchase price although the top spec S is quite a bit cheaper than a basic C2S.
The other issue appears to be that it doesn't have a Porsche badge and is made in the UK.
Edited by blueg33 on Monday 14th April 15:49
RoverP6B said:
limpsfield said:
You have got to be kidding! A 911, an Evora or a three series? That is not the same Venn diagram.
You say that as if it's just some boggo 320d, not an M3 CSL, one of the most desirable sports cars of modern times...blueg33 said:
RoverP6B said:
limpsfield said:
You have got to be kidding! A 911, an Evora or a three series? That is not the same Venn diagram.
You say that as if it's just some boggo 320d, not an M3 CSL, one of the most desirable sports cars of modern times...piquet said:
i've never been a porsche fan, my first car was an elise, i had it for 10 years, i thought it was amazing, until i started owning other cars
logically i should be the ideal customer for lotus, i spend a lot on cars, i like my cars, i've become more affluent as i've got older, i should be the perfect person for them to sell this to
but i'd rather hand back my licence then ever give lotus any more money, they need to learn about customer service, they need to leaner how test a car for the real world and not for just when it's new. A car that just crosses the finishing line and then collapses may be acceptable on a race track, it's not acceptable in a road car if you're rude and tell you're previous customers to get stuffed, they will do the same when you try and sell
at this price the competition is serious, you can't get away a car that resembles a parts bin car
it also looks kind of weird, where as the present cayman looks great and the f-type amazing
sorry this is way to expensive, even if it was made by someone else it would be too expensive for what it is, knowing it's made by lotus and comes with lotus backing and lotus quality it's a no brainer
What were the quality issues for you on your Elise? logically i should be the ideal customer for lotus, i spend a lot on cars, i like my cars, i've become more affluent as i've got older, i should be the perfect person for them to sell this to
but i'd rather hand back my licence then ever give lotus any more money, they need to learn about customer service, they need to leaner how test a car for the real world and not for just when it's new. A car that just crosses the finishing line and then collapses may be acceptable on a race track, it's not acceptable in a road car if you're rude and tell you're previous customers to get stuffed, they will do the same when you try and sell
at this price the competition is serious, you can't get away a car that resembles a parts bin car
it also looks kind of weird, where as the present cayman looks great and the f-type amazing
sorry this is way to expensive, even if it was made by someone else it would be too expensive for what it is, knowing it's made by lotus and comes with lotus backing and lotus quality it's a no brainer
And looks are certainly subjective, the F type is great but the Cayman has some very awkward proportions - the first one particularly. I think the Evora, especially in the flesh, is utterly fascinating and has great visual drama. Many people have copied that pulled in look on its flank since, it seems Mercedes have adopted it as their design language.
Meh, that really is hair-splitting, it handles like a sports car, it's basically a road-going competition car, it has all the motorsport credentials you could ask for and people do still race them, take them to hillclimbs and so on... it's a hang sight more of a sports car than a 911 C4S with PDK is!
RoverP6B said:
Meh, that really is hair-splitting, it handles like a sports car, it's basically a road-going competition car, it has all the motorsport credentials you could ask for and people do still race them, take them to hillclimbs and so on... it's a hang sight more of a sports car than a 911 C4S with PDK is!
You could say the same of an Evo X and Imprezza WRX and a number of others. It doesn't make them sports cars, and most members of the public wouldn't see them as sports cars.Speaking as someone who earlier this year was looking to buy a "Sports car" the CSL was crossed off my list pretty early on despite its abilities.
It's just not special " looking" enough, that's my gripe. Just looks like a fat exige.
Admit it, it has to look the part first before we get onto it's performance. I'm no Porchse in principle but I'd choose the Cayman out of the two choices ( current spec mind)
If I was choosing a Lotus it would be an Esprit 4 cylinder turbo late spec. That's just me I guess.
Admit it, it has to look the part first before we get onto it's performance. I'm no Porchse in principle but I'd choose the Cayman out of the two choices ( current spec mind)
If I was choosing a Lotus it would be an Esprit 4 cylinder turbo late spec. That's just me I guess.
Midshipracer said:
It's just not special " looking" enough, that's my gripe. Just looks like a fat exige.
Admit it, it has to look the part first before we get onto it's performance. I'm no Porsche in principle but I'd choose the Cayman out of the two choices ( current spec mind)
If I was choosing a Lotus it would be an Esprit 4 cylinder turbo late spec. That's just me I guess.
Have you seen them in the flesh? They don't look like fat Exige's. There were 3 Evoras at PH Sunday Service this weekend, I doubt any one confused them with the exige's that were there. Further most cars have a family likeness, many non petrol heads can tell their Cayman's from their 911's or their Vanquish from the DB9 etc.Admit it, it has to look the part first before we get onto it's performance. I'm no Porsche in principle but I'd choose the Cayman out of the two choices ( current spec mind)
If I was choosing a Lotus it would be an Esprit 4 cylinder turbo late spec. That's just me I guess.
I chose the same colour. Do you really still ythink the Evora looks like a fat Exige? Even if it did would that be an big issue?
Edited by blueg33 on Monday 14th April 17:17
NNH said:
blueg33 said:
RoverP6B said:
limpsfield said:
You have got to be kidding! A 911, an Evora or a three series? That is not the same Venn diagram.
You say that as if it's just some boggo 320d, not an M3 CSL, one of the most desirable sports cars of modern times...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff