RE: Evora S Sports Racer: Intro
Discussion
I really wanted a Evora, test drove one 3 times.
Every time bits were hanging off.
It's not a patch on the cayman R sadly.
And they are the same price 2nd hand.
The issue is lotus keep making it better, so every time I goto look they make it better, the latest face lift better again.
Lotus now state they again want to up the build quality on it.
Hi tax band is also a killer when you own few cars, cayman is low tax band.
Mpg is also worse. A lot worse !!! And tyres are a issue price wise also.
Clutch I was told is also a lot to change.
So there is no outstanding reason to buy one over the cayman R, it's that simple.
The only better item on the Evora imo are the brakes, which are stunning.
But at 40k the cayman R just does every thing better, with better back up and better dealers, cheaper to run and faster.
Every time bits were hanging off.
It's not a patch on the cayman R sadly.
And they are the same price 2nd hand.
The issue is lotus keep making it better, so every time I goto look they make it better, the latest face lift better again.
Lotus now state they again want to up the build quality on it.
Hi tax band is also a killer when you own few cars, cayman is low tax band.
Mpg is also worse. A lot worse !!! And tyres are a issue price wise also.
Clutch I was told is also a lot to change.
So there is no outstanding reason to buy one over the cayman R, it's that simple.
The only better item on the Evora imo are the brakes, which are stunning.
But at 40k the cayman R just does every thing better, with better back up and better dealers, cheaper to run and faster.
Kolbenkopp said:
Crazy world where a Lotus might be a tad heavier but holds the value better than the competition? Rarely see an Evora under 30k, amd while the Cayman won't be SOTW material anytime soon, prices seem to be heading in the direction of the Boxters'. Would love to drive an Evora at some point.
2 factors less cars, lower availability keeps prices high for the Loti & they are reliable with everyday non exotic engines that if they did fail (not that they do) it wouldn't be a problem & Porsche can't build reliable engines. I'd have bought a 996 or a Boxster years ago if i wasn't worried the engine would fail as the combination of looks, performance & practicality has always made me want a Porsche. Before the Porsche chaps say blown out of all proportion I've seen a Boxster 2.7 & a Cayman GTS fail at track days, fine one minute smoke machines the next. Also once I decided to go for it and buy a 996 the numbers of cars on their 2nd engines looking at their history eventually frightened me off. So 2nd hand buyers scared of the high probably of huge bills and loads of cars produced, never going to hold value well.The supercharged version is more like 4.1 seconds to 60 which sets it some way apart from the Cayman S. In addition, it's a real statement car, everywhere you go people want to be seen with or around it and the sports exhaust sounds incredible.
For me it stands apart from the Cayman in so many aspects. If Lotus could bring it down by £10k then I think it would sell well.
The build quality is an issue though, from the cheap rubber piping in the engine bay that looks like it's from a fishing tackle shop, to the nasty bit parts bin key.....Lotus could do a lot better there.....driving wise it's a gem though.
For me it stands apart from the Cayman in so many aspects. If Lotus could bring it down by £10k then I think it would sell well.
The build quality is an issue though, from the cheap rubber piping in the engine bay that looks like it's from a fishing tackle shop, to the nasty bit parts bin key.....Lotus could do a lot better there.....driving wise it's a gem though.
mrdemon said:
I really wanted a Evora, test drove one 3 times.
Every time bits were hanging off.
It's not a patch on the cayman R sadly.
And they are the same price 2nd hand.
The issue is lotus keep making it better, so every time I goto look they make it better, the latest face lift better again.
Lotus now state they again want to up the build quality on it.
Hi tax band is also a killer when you own few cars, cayman is low tax band.
Mpg is also worse. A lot worse !!! And tyres are a issue price wise also.
Clutch I was told is also a lot to change.
So there is no outstanding reason to buy one over the cayman R, it's that simple.
The only better item on the Evora imo are the brakes, which are stunning.
But at 40k the cayman R just does every thing better, with better back up and better dealers, cheaper to run and faster.
These bits falling off, anything major like conrods, or little bits of trim? Every time bits were hanging off.
It's not a patch on the cayman R sadly.
And they are the same price 2nd hand.
The issue is lotus keep making it better, so every time I goto look they make it better, the latest face lift better again.
Lotus now state they again want to up the build quality on it.
Hi tax band is also a killer when you own few cars, cayman is low tax band.
Mpg is also worse. A lot worse !!! And tyres are a issue price wise also.
Clutch I was told is also a lot to change.
So there is no outstanding reason to buy one over the cayman R, it's that simple.
The only better item on the Evora imo are the brakes, which are stunning.
But at 40k the cayman R just does every thing better, with better back up and better dealers, cheaper to run and faster.
I know which manufacturer I'd go with, and it's not the one that can make a reliable interior...
mrdemon said:
bencollins said:
1) Cant understand why someone would pick a Cayman over this, but seems they do!
2) So much more cool and a bulletproof motor to boot.
3) First poster expects a hand-built low volume aluminium chassised car should be £20k(!) cheaper than a massed produced very nice steel monocoque from a competitor. That probably answers (1).
easy2) So much more cool and a bulletproof motor to boot.
3) First poster expects a hand-built low volume aluminium chassised car should be £20k(!) cheaper than a massed produced very nice steel monocoque from a competitor. That probably answers (1).
build is still dire
support and dealers are still dire
the engines a heavy weight old lump
And it's slower
hence why we pick Caymans
mrdemon said:
I really wanted a Evora, test drove one 3 times.
Every time bits were hanging off.
It's not a patch on the cayman R sadly.
And they are the same price 2nd hand.
The issue is lotus keep making it better, so every time I goto look they make it better, the latest face lift better again.
Lotus now state they again want to up the build quality on it.
Hi tax band is also a killer when you own few cars, cayman is low tax band.
Mpg is also worse. A lot worse !!! And tyres are a issue price wise also.
Clutch I was told is also a lot to change.
So there is no outstanding reason to buy one over the cayman R, it's that simple.
The only better item on the Evora imo are the brakes, which are stunning.
But at 40k the cayman R just does every thing better, with better back up and better dealers, cheaper to run and faster.
Ok, I'll bite. I've driven lots of Evoras, never noticed any bits hanging off.Every time bits were hanging off.
It's not a patch on the cayman R sadly.
And they are the same price 2nd hand.
The issue is lotus keep making it better, so every time I goto look they make it better, the latest face lift better again.
Lotus now state they again want to up the build quality on it.
Hi tax band is also a killer when you own few cars, cayman is low tax band.
Mpg is also worse. A lot worse !!! And tyres are a issue price wise also.
Clutch I was told is also a lot to change.
So there is no outstanding reason to buy one over the cayman R, it's that simple.
The only better item on the Evora imo are the brakes, which are stunning.
But at 40k the cayman R just does every thing better, with better back up and better dealers, cheaper to run and faster.
Tyres were £600 for a full set fitted, how much are they for a Cayman?
As for reasons to buy one over a Cayman R..
Better looking
Much better road presence
Better to drive (Remind me, has the R won eCotY?)
Better brakes
Doesnt blend in to the background like every other Cayman out there, therefore rarer
The public don't think you are a typical Porsche wa**er.
Better dealership
No horrendous Ripspeed-esque spoiler
And your issue with Lotus making the car better? Yes, shame on thrm for continually making improvements! Disgraceful!
61GT said:
mrdemon said:
bencollins said:
1) Cant understand why someone would pick a Cayman over this, but seems they do!
2) So much more cool and a bulletproof motor to boot.
3) First poster expects a hand-built low volume aluminium chassised car should be £20k(!) cheaper than a massed produced very nice steel monocoque from a competitor. That probably answers (1).
easy2) So much more cool and a bulletproof motor to boot.
3) First poster expects a hand-built low volume aluminium chassised car should be £20k(!) cheaper than a massed produced very nice steel monocoque from a competitor. That probably answers (1).
build is still dire
support and dealers are still dire
the engines a heavy weight old lump
And it's slower
hence why we pick Caymans
The Wookie said:
mrdemon said:
easy
build is still dire
support and dealers are still dire
the engines a heavy weight old lump
And it's slower
hence why we pick Caymans
No it isn't, certainly not compared to my experience with Porschesbuild is still dire
support and dealers are still dire
the engines a heavy weight old lump
And it's slower
hence why we pick Caymans
No they aren't, certainly not compared to my experience with Porsche dealers
Fair enough, the engine is mediocre, but it doesn't spoil the car
They don't sell in numbers because a Lotus needs to either be significantly cheaper than the equivalent mainstream brands to sell, or have a chunk more performance.
I like the Evora but one of there biggest mistakes was using the old toyota V6 instead of the DI version, that made 300 hp in standard trim as opposed to the 250 odd of the old unit Lotus used....if lotus found 25hp in that engine too the base car would have 325hp and the S/C one 400hp and you'd at least get some extra performance over rivals
Instead it's near the same price/performance going up against cars with bespoke engines, using an old Toyota V6 that was end of life when they shoved it in, madness.
But what can we expect when they also downsized the 1.8 Elise to a 1.6 when the 1.8 version of the same engine put out near 150hp and would have given the base car semi decent performance, short term penny pinching that has ended up costing them £££ as very few people ended up buying either car
You're assuming that companies like Toyota are willing to sell the brand spanking new versions of their engines...
I'd much rather have a Toyota mass produced engine (with suitably tuned intake and exhaust notes) than a 'bespoke' engine made of chocolate (when was the last truly reliable Porsche bespoke engine, has there been one in the watercooled era?
I'd much rather have a Toyota mass produced engine (with suitably tuned intake and exhaust notes) than a 'bespoke' engine made of chocolate (when was the last truly reliable Porsche bespoke engine, has there been one in the watercooled era?
Funny how this has turned into the Battle of Britain - Spitfire V's Messerschmitt..
Evora and Cayman are both great accomplished handling and beautiful looking cars.. they do more than most out there and are very focused mid-engined sports cars. Any comparison to 911 seems odd, different segment.
You buy from the heart at the end of the day, if you are in the market for one. I challenge anyone who really is into their cars not to want to own both, i would, just to appreciate the qualities/feeling of both and their subtle differences. Yes if you need the +2 the Cayman is not an option.
Evora and Cayman are both great accomplished handling and beautiful looking cars.. they do more than most out there and are very focused mid-engined sports cars. Any comparison to 911 seems odd, different segment.
You buy from the heart at the end of the day, if you are in the market for one. I challenge anyone who really is into their cars not to want to own both, i would, just to appreciate the qualities/feeling of both and their subtle differences. Yes if you need the +2 the Cayman is not an option.
Sway said:
You're assuming that companies like Toyota are willing to sell the brand spanking new versions of their engines...
I'd much rather have a Toyota mass produced engine (with suitably tuned intake and exhaust notes) than a 'bespoke' engine made of chocolate (when was the last truly reliable Porsche bespoke engine, has there been one in the watercooled era?
This is not some top secret high end uber engine like the one in the Lexus LFA, theV6 was out of a ordinary saloon or some such, if Toyota let Lotus use the high rev Yamaha designed 1.8 (Toyotas version of a Honda VTEC) I very much doubt there would be an issue with using DI version of the V6 other than lotus wanting to save a few quid by buying the obsolete engine instead.....I'd much rather have a Toyota mass produced engine (with suitably tuned intake and exhaust notes) than a 'bespoke' engine made of chocolate (when was the last truly reliable Porsche bespoke engine, has there been one in the watercooled era?
As for the 1.8 option it was exactly the same engine design as the 1.6 just in a bigger capacity, probably a few quid extra for a decent slug of extra performance and only very marginally worse co2/mpg again no logical reason for not using it other than trying to save a couple of hundred quid at most, result a car so slow no one wanted it even when it was the only Elise you could buy new.
I'd much rather the yota engine too if I was buying second hand out of warranty, brand new with warranty I'll take the bespoke option
domtreas said:
Funny how this has turned into the Battle of Britain - Spitfire V's Messerschmitt..
So what we're saying is that it needs an engine called "Griffon", with two-stage supercharging, over 2,000 horsepower and a top speed of 450 mph?
Oh, and cannons; four of them.
Yeah...I could live with that.
Clivey said:
So what we're saying is that it needs an engine called "Griffon", with two-stage supercharging, over 2,000 horsepower and a top speed of 450 mph?
Oh, and cannons; four of them.
Yeah...I could live with that.
braddersm3 said:
Really like these but £65k is £20k to much surely!..shame but competition in the form of Boxster and Cayman is pretty tough and now the F Type coupe is out...
I totally agree. I'd like to see the Evora succeed but they're overpriced. I'd have a Porsche Cayman or an Alfa Romeo 4C and some change.Herman Toothrot said:
2 factors less cars, lower availability keeps prices high for the Loti & they are reliable with everyday non exotic engines that if they did fail (not that they do) it wouldn't be a problem & Porsche can't build reliable engines. [...]
That makes a lot of sense, thanks. Not that I have the budget right now, but there's one thing scaring me a bit about the Evora: the GRP shell. How many pieces is that? Knowing my luck, first time I leave it parked downtown some !"$§# will reverse a SUV or tow hook into it...peter450 said:
Agreed on the last point, you only have to look at Lotus best sales figures for there various models to see that price or clear performance blue water is needed for them to do well
I like the Evora but one of there biggest mistakes was using the old toyota V6 instead of the DI version, that made 300 hp in standard trim as opposed to the 250 odd of the old unit Lotus used....if lotus found 25hp in that engine too the base car would have 325hp and the S/C one 400hp and you'd at least get some extra performance over rivals
Instead it's near the same price/performance going up against cars with bespoke engines, using an old Toyota V6 that was end of life when they shoved it in, madness.
But what can we expect when they also downsized the 1.8 Elise to a 1.6 when the 1.8 version of the same engine put out near 150hp and would have given the base car semi decent performance, short term penny pinching that has ended up costing them £££ as very few people ended up buying either car
As I understand it, the DI version wouldn't fit. You can see how cramped the engine is in the evora even after slanting it backwards. The DI version has both direct and indirect injectors and makes the engine wider (which is why it's only used in front engine rear wheel drive layouts).I like the Evora but one of there biggest mistakes was using the old toyota V6 instead of the DI version, that made 300 hp in standard trim as opposed to the 250 odd of the old unit Lotus used....if lotus found 25hp in that engine too the base car would have 325hp and the S/C one 400hp and you'd at least get some extra performance over rivals
Instead it's near the same price/performance going up against cars with bespoke engines, using an old Toyota V6 that was end of life when they shoved it in, madness.
But what can we expect when they also downsized the 1.8 Elise to a 1.6 when the 1.8 version of the same engine put out near 150hp and would have given the base car semi decent performance, short term penny pinching that has ended up costing them £££ as very few people ended up buying either car
Also when in supercharged trim the power output is about the same at 360ps so it is a lot of complexity for not very much gain (and about another 10kgs). Lotus would have to warrant the engines themselves if they went above this. We also are not party to the commercial arrangement which may prevent lotus from tuning the engines outside their published specifications.
The Elise had to be downsized - the old high performance engine was discontinued due to euro regs and the old 1.8 was replaced by the 1.6. It was the only engine they could get at the time. The new Elise s's are now using a newer 1.8 with a supercharger but to use it in place of the 1.6 would give a tiny increase in power and need to be re-type approved. Not worth the cost.
I looked at getting an Evora last year. They are beautiful cars which are even more stunning in reality than in the pictures. To echo what someone else said, here in Scotland the dealer reputation is excellent. Sadly the rear seats were just too small (smaller than the pictures suggest).
Having just read this article I had a quick look on the classifieds out of curiosity and prices seem higher than last year. There were many cars available then for around £30k but now only a couple.
The most similar car to the Evora that Lotus have made in recent times is the Europa. Most Europas are now 7-8 yrs old and still command high prices. If Evora depreciation is similar they could be a fantastic buy. Especially the sports racer with it’s improved interior and even better looks (nightfall blue for me).
Having just read this article I had a quick look on the classifieds out of curiosity and prices seem higher than last year. There were many cars available then for around £30k but now only a couple.
The most similar car to the Evora that Lotus have made in recent times is the Europa. Most Europas are now 7-8 yrs old and still command high prices. If Evora depreciation is similar they could be a fantastic buy. Especially the sports racer with it’s improved interior and even better looks (nightfall blue for me).
justin220 said:
Ok, I'll bite. I've driven lots of Evoras, never noticed any bits hanging off.
Tyres were £600 for a full set fitted, how much are they for a Cayman?
As for reasons to buy one over a Cayman R..
Better looking
Much better road presence
Better to drive (Remind me, has the R won eCotY?)
Better brakes
Doesnt blend in to the background like every other Cayman out there, therefore rarer
The public don't think you are a typical Porsche wa**er.
Better dealership
No horrendous Ripspeed-esque spoiler
And your issue with Lotus making the car better? Yes, shame on thrm for continually making improvements! Disgraceful!
I for one don't think the public think Porsche owners are wTyres were £600 for a full set fitted, how much are they for a Cayman?
As for reasons to buy one over a Cayman R..
Better looking
Much better road presence
Better to drive (Remind me, has the R won eCotY?)
Better brakes
Doesnt blend in to the background like every other Cayman out there, therefore rarer
The public don't think you are a typical Porsche wa**er.
Better dealership
No horrendous Ripspeed-esque spoiler
And your issue with Lotus making the car better? Yes, shame on thrm for continually making improvements! Disgraceful!
kers, that's just the jelous types who have nothing to say and can never afford one.I don't see my Peridot green blending into back ground, every one stares at it and at school time all the kids are giving it the thumbs up.
Yes the Evora has better brakes,(maybe not better put better feel) but then Porsche offer Ceramic brakes which are in another league which I have. and which Lotus can only ever dream about.
as for ecoty lol that was the biggest fix ever and it came nowhere every year after.
and yes the R did win drivers car of the year 2010 in autocar.
Evora is nice as I said, but owners seem to buy because of spite or because they are anti Porsche that's all, not because it's the better car , because it's not.
Dealers !! you are on the drink regarding dealers and backup form Lotus ....
My cars go to Porsche you, get nice coffee and they lend you a 911 and nothing falls off them.
each to their own I guess, but don't say black is white because you are anti Porsche , it stinks.
I have owned over 50 cars now inc 5 years in Lotus (Lotus also the only cars to leave me stranded as well :-( )
And I have to admit I don't like the way Porsche are going , as in a more Audi feel, but it sells more cars.
But the Cayman R is a stunning drive and prob the best car I have ever owned, and I may well look to the next Evora when the R goes , if Lotus can find a better engine, tidy up their game, improve the dealers and make it a bit lighter.
It's so close to being great, I am sure one day they will make it great.
Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 5th April 11:26
Herman Toothrot said:
2 factors less cars, lower availability keeps prices high for the Loti & they are reliable with everyday non exotic engines that if they did fail (not that they do) it wouldn't be a problem & Porsche can't build reliable engines. I'd have bought a 996 or a Boxster years ago if i wasn't worried the engine would fail as the combination of looks, performance & practicality has always made me want a Porsche. Before the Porsche chaps say blown out of all proportion I've seen a Boxster 2.7 & a Cayman GTS fail at track days, fine one minute smoke machines the next. Also once I decided to go for it and buy a 996 the numbers of cars on their 2nd engines looking at their history eventually frightened me off. So 2nd hand buyers scared of the high probably of huge bills and loads of cars produced, never going to hold value well.
Porsche's 3.4 DFi engine is incredibly reliable - I can't remember hearing about one that's failed.The Cayman GTS you speak of - are you sure?
(For the record, I love Lotus and I like Porsche
)Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff