RE: Evora S Sports Racer: Intro
Discussion
juansolo said:
I'd actually be interested in a long term test/review of the Evora. I think it would answer an awful lot of criticism people have for the car (rightly or wrongly). It's the only real question mark I have about it.
Another forum on the web have run the Evora on a long term (12 month) test a couple of years ago. Although a marque specific forum, there's no pandering to the manufacturer. At the risk of enraging the PH mods I'll leave a clicky to the first of the reports here and the index to the other reports here.highway said:
But we have all read the guff about how great the ride and steering feel are haven't we? It's old hat. In short people broadly like the styling, wax on about the aforementioned ride and handling, moan about entry and egress and grumble about gear change, ergonomics and perceived quality of switchgear, including stereo. Then some comments on industrial/pedestrian/soulless engine with adequate performance to conclude with; " pretty good but the Porsche wins it...."
I am on PH, I'm not interested in reading a version of that review again. Talking about what the car is like to actually live with is the point of a long term test. Spare me from more about how it's a race car for the road or how"telepathic" the steering is please...
The thing is, if you strip away the finer points about the way it drives, a Cayman itself becomes a hard sell against my previous '12 Mini Cooper S which I rate about equal in terms of practicality, interior quality and ergonomics (yes, I know you can spec up a Cayman's interior to absurd heights, but then it becomes a hard sell against Astons et al... I am on PH, I'm not interested in reading a version of that review again. Talking about what the car is like to actually live with is the point of a long term test. Spare me from more about how it's a race car for the road or how"telepathic" the steering is please...
), let alone the likes of Audi. 
Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 24th April 10:59
900T-R said:
highway said:
But we have all read the guff about how great the ride and steering feel are haven't we? It's old hat. In short people broadly like the styling, wax on about the aforementioned ride and handling, moan about entry and egress and grumble about gear change, ergonomics and perceived quality of switchgear, including stereo. Then some comments on industrial/pedestrian/soulless engine with adequate performance to conclude with; " pretty good but the Porsche wins it...."
I am on PH, I'm not interested in reading a version of that review again. Talking about what the car is like to actually live with is the point of a long term test. Spare me from more about how it's a race car for the road or how"telepathic" the steering is please...
The thing is, if you strip away the finer points about the way it drives, a Cayman itself becomes a hard sell against my previous '12 Mini Cooper S which I rate about equal in terms of practicality, interior quality and ergonomics (yes, I know you can spec up a Cayman's interior to absurd heights, but then it becomes a hard sell against Astons et al... I am on PH, I'm not interested in reading a version of that review again. Talking about what the car is like to actually live with is the point of a long term test. Spare me from more about how it's a race car for the road or how"telepathic" the steering is please...
), let alone the likes of Audi. Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 24th April 10:59
Just pulled up for a coffee after 110 miles in my daily driver Evora S. Super comfortable drive on the way down and as usual lots of admiring looks and people coming over to ask about the car etc.
I was wondering about Garlicks comment re rear visibility as I drove along. Don't see it as a problem myself, as large door mirrors, a rear window still (albeit not huge) and reversing camera and rear sensors for when parking. Can't ask for much more from a sports car ?
Of course he is free to have his own view on which car he would like. I think the Cayman S is an incredibly capable car and in my eyes better than 911's and I say that after own 3. But in the same way Garlicks had his reasons for choosing a Cayman over an Evora, my reasons were the Cayman just left me feeling a bit cold and I knew I would be bored of it within a short spell. However after 6 weeks and 1300 miles with my car, I still look forward to the drive ahead and walk away with a huge smile afterwards. Personally I think it a bit of a bargain to get junior supercar looks and performance vs the £200k now needed for Lambos and Ferraris.
Just my 2p and to reiterate the Cayman is also an excellent car
I was wondering about Garlicks comment re rear visibility as I drove along. Don't see it as a problem myself, as large door mirrors, a rear window still (albeit not huge) and reversing camera and rear sensors for when parking. Can't ask for much more from a sports car ?
Of course he is free to have his own view on which car he would like. I think the Cayman S is an incredibly capable car and in my eyes better than 911's and I say that after own 3. But in the same way Garlicks had his reasons for choosing a Cayman over an Evora, my reasons were the Cayman just left me feeling a bit cold and I knew I would be bored of it within a short spell. However after 6 weeks and 1300 miles with my car, I still look forward to the drive ahead and walk away with a huge smile afterwards. Personally I think it a bit of a bargain to get junior supercar looks and performance vs the £200k now needed for Lambos and Ferraris.
Just my 2p and to reiterate the Cayman is also an excellent car
Edited by Dave211 on Thursday 24th April 11:46
highway said:
It's not some ideological battle. It's just about cars FFS.
I'm reminded of the comment about football. "It's not life and death. It's more important than that. "There's nothing wrong with a bit of pro-Lotus passion on PH.
I should say that I'm reading this thread because I'm thinking about my next car, and it's likely to be a used Evora S or used Caymen S. I think the Caymen is the better car, but will probably choose the Lotus. Mainly because "I want one".
Sometime you have to let heart rule head.
Edited by SpudLink on Thursday 24th April 11:55
Here is a review from a 1 month long test
Evora Review
I like this quote
Evora Review
I like this quote
Review said:
....making up for its daily driver shortcomings with one of the most incredible chassis on a car costing less than £200k.
Having recently driven the fantastic McLaren MP4-12C Spider, we can safely say that the Evora is just a few inches away from the poise and refinement that the McLaren offers, at about a third of the price.
Having recently driven the fantastic McLaren MP4-12C Spider, we can safely say that the Evora is just a few inches away from the poise and refinement that the McLaren offers, at about a third of the price.
This has got a few people riled up has it not!
Now I've had a think about it, I reckon the main problem is that this is a nothing 'review'.
It really shouldn't have been published as it's a complete waste of time reading it, tells you nothing about the car other than a few strange points that nobody else (or very very few) seem to have a problem with, such as the wallet/phone issue. I mean, WTF is that about???
The writer is a motoring journo who's never been in a Lotus, that to me says he's not really got any credibility and is not the guy to be writing on what is supposed to be a driving enthusiasts site. Note I say driving enthusiasts, not car enthusiasts, there's a difference in my book. We can all get excited by new things and day to day reliability, fuel consumption etc. but I thought PH was about the driving experience and the joy that comes from that. Not moaning about your bloody phone storage - leave it in your pocket or put it in the door pocket where it'll sit nicely next to your wallet!
Either write a proper review of a car or don't bother at all - very poor journalism, were you short of something to put on the site that day?
Now I've had a think about it, I reckon the main problem is that this is a nothing 'review'.
It really shouldn't have been published as it's a complete waste of time reading it, tells you nothing about the car other than a few strange points that nobody else (or very very few) seem to have a problem with, such as the wallet/phone issue. I mean, WTF is that about???
The writer is a motoring journo who's never been in a Lotus, that to me says he's not really got any credibility and is not the guy to be writing on what is supposed to be a driving enthusiasts site. Note I say driving enthusiasts, not car enthusiasts, there's a difference in my book. We can all get excited by new things and day to day reliability, fuel consumption etc. but I thought PH was about the driving experience and the joy that comes from that. Not moaning about your bloody phone storage - leave it in your pocket or put it in the door pocket where it'll sit nicely next to your wallet!
Either write a proper review of a car or don't bother at all - very poor journalism, were you short of something to put on the site that day?
In Garlick's defence, even a motoring journo has to have a first time in any car/make, so the fact that he hasn't driven a Lotus before is excusable.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and base these subjectively on how they would use the car, but he does seem to have missed the point a bit.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and base these subjectively on how they would use the car, but he does seem to have missed the point a bit.
blueg33 said:
Here is a review from a 1 month long test
Evora Review
I like this quote
The comparison to Mclaren is interesting. A Top Gear road test from the middle of last year ran the Ferrari 458 Spider vs the McClaren 12C Spider, two technological tour de forces costing £198k and £195k respectively. Here's an interesting quote - Evora Review
I like this quote
Review said:
....making up for its daily driver shortcomings with one of the most incredible chassis on a car costing less than £200k.
Having recently driven the fantastic McLaren MP4-12C Spider, we can safely say that the Evora is just a few inches away from the poise and refinement that the McLaren offers, at about a third of the price.
Having recently driven the fantastic McLaren MP4-12C Spider, we can safely say that the Evora is just a few inches away from the poise and refinement that the McLaren offers, at about a third of the price.
"Run a decent set of bumps, of which there are many on the roads around here, and the way the little McLaren taps lightly from one to the other is borderline witchcraft. A dancers gait. Not quite a Lotus Evora level of chassis balance over rough stuff, but not far off". (Bold emphasis mine)
Whilst this is not the first time I've seen such comparisons, they always bring a smile to my face, that this little outfit in the wilds of Norfolk, with virtually no money, can stand tall against such opposition, companies with massively more resource at their disposal and of course such an expensive final product. Makes me proud to be a Lotus owner.
Dave211 said:
Just pulled up for a coffee after 110 miles in my daily driver Evora S. Super comfortable drive on the way down
Strangely, that point never crops up in reviews (except Evo's) but IMO is the key to the Lotus' daily useability - the ride quality that makes just about every 'sporty' German car (and a lot of non-sporting ones, too) look more than a little compromised and silly for today's roads. If I were driving London to Teddington v.v. every working day I'd be a bit more concerned about this than where to put my wallet other than in my coat pocket where it belongs.
And there in lies the frustration. Nick Adams, Tony Shute, Matt Becker, all properly nice blokes and real car guys. I was a very early owner of one of the first S2 cars. Got invited to take it back to the factory as there were some things they wanted sight on. Nick asked me why I had gone for the cloth seats option rather than leather or alcantara. I explained that the nicer seats were, at the time, another £1k odd and I literally, couldn't afford any more.
Had a nice tour around the factory. When I got back all the issues, including a paint blister, sorted on the car which now had the red alcantara interior I would have picked if I could have stood the cost, as a thank you.
Make no mistake, Lotus are my favourite car marque and I want them to do well. They get so much right, that's what irks so much when they mis step. I couldn't find the price for a base Evora anywhere on their website, maybe it's on the configuarator. Research elsewhere suggests £52k?
I don't know so much about economies of scale and the like but surely it would have stood more chance of selling in numbers had its base price started with a 3.
When I bought my Elise in 1998 it competed against MX5's, MR2's at one end and SLK and Boxster at the other. That first car was priced at £23k, more than the Mazda and Toyota but SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than the Boxster and Merc. As a drivers car it was better, certainly over a short distance, than any of them and thus it proved Lotus biggest selling car ever.
I'm not sure what the newest cars cost them to make but pricing them head on against Porsche is just not sensible. The Porsche is now faster, lighter (LIGHTER!) better equipped and the Evora needs to be less. If it was they doubtless would have sold MANY more of them. Whether it would have been enough to generate the profit they need remains debatable.
Likewise I don't doubt the new Elise is properly sublime to drive with the V6 in it. I could have fancied one. However the styling needs updating ( lose those Metro door mirrors puhleese!) and again it's over double what I paid for my first Elise whilst being effectively the same car. I'm not checking but I think I'm right in thinking the new car again is £50k plus?
With a facelift, 230bhp ish and perhaps a pre paid service plan to make ownership easier, a new Elise with some improved entry and NVH could clean up against mainstream competition priced in the early £30s
Had a nice tour around the factory. When I got back all the issues, including a paint blister, sorted on the car which now had the red alcantara interior I would have picked if I could have stood the cost, as a thank you.
Make no mistake, Lotus are my favourite car marque and I want them to do well. They get so much right, that's what irks so much when they mis step. I couldn't find the price for a base Evora anywhere on their website, maybe it's on the configuarator. Research elsewhere suggests £52k?
I don't know so much about economies of scale and the like but surely it would have stood more chance of selling in numbers had its base price started with a 3.
When I bought my Elise in 1998 it competed against MX5's, MR2's at one end and SLK and Boxster at the other. That first car was priced at £23k, more than the Mazda and Toyota but SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than the Boxster and Merc. As a drivers car it was better, certainly over a short distance, than any of them and thus it proved Lotus biggest selling car ever.
I'm not sure what the newest cars cost them to make but pricing them head on against Porsche is just not sensible. The Porsche is now faster, lighter (LIGHTER!) better equipped and the Evora needs to be less. If it was they doubtless would have sold MANY more of them. Whether it would have been enough to generate the profit they need remains debatable.
Likewise I don't doubt the new Elise is properly sublime to drive with the V6 in it. I could have fancied one. However the styling needs updating ( lose those Metro door mirrors puhleese!) and again it's over double what I paid for my first Elise whilst being effectively the same car. I'm not checking but I think I'm right in thinking the new car again is £50k plus?
With a facelift, 230bhp ish and perhaps a pre paid service plan to make ownership easier, a new Elise with some improved entry and NVH could clean up against mainstream competition priced in the early £30s
I always remember Autocars laughable 1997 claim that the Elise had a "saloon car" ride. Sublime car to drive about 60 miles in at a go. Rubbish on the motorway. Exhausting to go long distance in.
Not had the pleasure of an Evora over any real distance. One thing I do remember ( while I'm moaning ) is the ridiculous, dated, miserable looking little lock buttons visible on top of the door cards...wtf....
Not had the pleasure of an Evora over any real distance. One thing I do remember ( while I'm moaning ) is the ridiculous, dated, miserable looking little lock buttons visible on top of the door cards...wtf....
I'm not sure I understand that point really. The Elise is still cheaper, lighter, and better handling but less refined than the mainstream German cars. The Evora is not the Elise. The Exige debatably is the Elise but again, it's still vastly cheaper than the mainstream competition (being the GT3 and other such cars).
Styling is obviously a personal thing, but whilst I've never particularly liked the looks of the Elise, I don't see why it needs to be changed for the sake of it. The wing mirrors are there to let you see behind you; they do that just as well today as they did in 1998 - why do they need to be changed?
The Elise is never going to appeal to people who will only buy a car if its obvious to their neighbour that it's a new model.
Styling is obviously a personal thing, but whilst I've never particularly liked the looks of the Elise, I don't see why it needs to be changed for the sake of it. The wing mirrors are there to let you see behind you; they do that just as well today as they did in 1998 - why do they need to be changed?
The Elise is never going to appeal to people who will only buy a car if its obvious to their neighbour that it's a new model.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 24th April 13:57
Yeah, you get back to a cart horse on a wooden seat. Lots of steering feel there. Those reins are awesome for feedback and the ride is real and uncorrupted. You will be at one with the road. And happy.
You need to realise that mentioning the door locking pins is not the same as telling you your Mrs is a munter. Don't take it all so personal. It's not like its your dad's firm. Take some deep breaths.
You need to realise that mentioning the door locking pins is not the same as telling you your Mrs is a munter. Don't take it all so personal. It's not like its your dad's firm. Take some deep breaths.
highway said:
I don't know so much about economies of scale and the like but surely it would have stood more chance of selling in numbers had its base price started with a 3.
Well obviously as it would priced well under any competition!Show me any new mid engine sports car capable of 0-60 in under 5 seconds, with leather satnav, sports mapping, V6 engine, all from a known sports car brand with racing heritage?
The answer is that there aren't any.
Yeah, you get back to a cart horse on a wooden seat. Lots of steering feel there. Those reins are awesome for feedback and the ride is real and uncorrupted. You will be at one with the road. And happy.
You need to realise that mentioning the door locking pins is not the same as telling you your Mrs is a munter. Don't take it all so personal. It's not like its your dad's firm. Take some deep breaths.
You need to realise that mentioning the door locking pins is not the same as telling you your Mrs is a munter. Don't take it all so personal. It's not like its your dad's firm. Take some deep breaths.
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