RE: Evora S Sports Racer: Intro
Discussion
kambites said:
I must admit having driven my car every working day for seven years, I haven't a clue what sort of door locking pins it has. 
You've not seen the little dildoes stood up on the corners of the door cards? Like Cortinas had in the 70's? Like amateur car thieves used to grab onto with coat hangers to open the doorsNeed to work on your observation skills, must be frightening going for a ride with you
highway said:
You need to realise that mentioning the door locking pins is not the same as telling you your Mrs is a munter. Don't take it all so personal. It's not like its your dad's firm. Take some deep breaths.
Neither car gives you both, but in my mind the lotus gives better palm trees and breeze, you just have to reach a bit further for your coke and maybe the beach chair is an extra 10 meters longer walk.
People rubbish the Lotus due to slightly squiffy buttons and a clicky handbrake (thanks clarkson), well the Porsche should be rubbished for not driving as well and for having questionable reliability.
highway said:
kambites said:
I must admit having driven my car every working day for seven years, I haven't a clue what sort of door locking pins it has.
You've not seen the little dildoes stood up on the corners of the door cards? Like Cortinas had in the 70's? Like amateur car thieves used to grab onto with coat hangers to open the doorsNeed to work on your observation skills, must be frightening going for a ride with you
Perhaps we here have the explanation for why German cars are driven so badly - the people who buy them spend all their time staring at the interior rather than the road.
kambites said:
Each to their own but personally I think I'd rather passenger with someone who looks at what's outside the car when driving, rather than someone who stars at the tops of their doors.
Perhaps we here have the explanation for why German cars are driven so badly - the people who buy them spend all their time staring at the interior rather than the road.
Perhaps we here have the explanation for why German cars are driven so badly - the people who buy them spend all their time staring at the interior rather than the road.
yes:Richard-G said:
I don't take it personally, i have no allegiance to the brand, i didn't even pay for my lotus. What I'm finding hilarious and the reason i keep coming back to this thread is that in a microcosm it is everything that is wrong with the modern enthusiast. You want the desert island, you want the blowing palm trees and the warm breeze, but then you want a cold coke with extra ice and maybe a jet ski a bit later with some sky tv before bed.
Neither car gives you both, but in my mind the lotus gives better palm trees and breeze, you just have to reach a bit further for your coke and maybe the beach chair is an extra 10 meters longer walk.
People rubbish the Lotus due to slightly squiffy buttons and a clicky handbrake (thanks clarkson), well the Porsche should be rubbished for not driving as well and for having questionable reliability.
Where did you come by one for free?Neither car gives you both, but in my mind the lotus gives better palm trees and breeze, you just have to reach a bit further for your coke and maybe the beach chair is an extra 10 meters longer walk.
People rubbish the Lotus due to slightly squiffy buttons and a clicky handbrake (thanks clarkson), well the Porsche should be rubbished for not driving as well and for having questionable reliability.
kambites said:
Perhaps we here have the explanation for why German cars are driven so badly - the people who buy them spend all their time staring at the interior rather than the road.
Hence the importance, to some, of the Llama fur lined glovebox of the Cayman compared with the more functional covering inside the Evora's. It's a very significant aspect of everyday driveability for an everyday sportscar. Don't you know anything about reviewing cars?CTE said:
Sorry to bang on about the price thing again, but the Lotus is cheaper due to the lower depreciation...obviously if Lotus sold loads of them then this situation would change.
If new sales rose without second-hand demand keeping up (which they almost certainly would, if Lotus actually managed to appeal to the mainstream market) then certainly. Impasse said:
kambites said:
Perhaps we here have the explanation for why German cars are driven so badly - the people who buy them spend all their time staring at the interior rather than the road.
Hence the importance, to some, of the Llama fur lined glovebox of the Cayman compared with the more functional covering inside the Evora's. It's a very significant aspect of everyday driveability for an everyday sportscar. Don't you know anything about reviewing cars?Llamas have hair or possibly wool, not fur.
It's really heartening to see some passionate posts in defence of the Evora. I was beginning to think everyone on ph was praying towards Stuttgart these days.
The point here is it's a review of a car made in Norfolk for buttons, made by hand with few economies of scale available. Worse than that, angsty suppliers who are get more jittery with every doom laden headline. It was touch and go in the last couple of years whether or not the new owners would continue car production here.
Losing TVR was tragic. Their daring, imaginative, free-spirited approach to car design was a breath of fresh air and the roads and motor shows are that little bit more boring since they stopped production.
But losing Lotus would be a total travesty. They have so much more respect within the car industry than they find among the buying public. Many crow on about Porsche's history and heritage but just look at Lotus's! And before you say they've done nothing since the 1990's remember that Porsche haven't won Le Mans since the 1990's either. So many of the brands that many here consider superior actually consulted Lotus or used their cars as benchmarks. The Ford GT steers beautifully thanks to Lotus. Nissan wanted to take on the world with the GTR who did they turn to? Ferrari benchmarked the Evora when developing the 458's steering. Yes, really.
So what do UK journalists and majority of car 'enthusiasts' do when Lotus are on the brink? Do they rally round, insist that everyone at least tries a Lotus while they still can? No. It would appear they see it as an opportunity to stick the boot in and recommend that anyone considering an Evora should buy a Cayman at every opportunity. And each time quoting the purely theoretical base prices for the Cayman and 911.
I get that a struggling company doesn't inspire much confidence in buyers but it strikes me that choosing to add to the success of an already dominant 'rival' German car company is the absolutely least helpful thing a UK buyer can do.
I think for whatever reason there's a something of a national disposition to be negative about our ourselves. Something I was hoping the incredible 2012 Olympics would start to erode. But alas it was short lived. The cricket team are crap again. Our football team always were a bunch of overpaid losers. Mansell is a moaning Brummie. Damon Hill was just riding his Dad's coat-tails, Button's slow and Hamilton's a chav wannabe rapper. Whereas Piquet and Senna had all the talent, Prost was the most intelligent and Schumacher the most dedicated and determined. Unlike Britsh auto workers who are lazy and managed by idiots. BL was an embarassment and the harder working, better managed Germans deserved to wipe the floor with us. You had your chance Britain and you screwed it up! Big, fat rebadged Volkswagen SUV please.
Just for the benefit of those confused by the responses in favour of the Evora, isn't it more reasonable for someone to defend uncharitable opinions about a Lotus than for someone to rush into a thread entitled 'Evora S Sports Racer' to remind everyone why they should have bought a Porsche?
The point here is it's a review of a car made in Norfolk for buttons, made by hand with few economies of scale available. Worse than that, angsty suppliers who are get more jittery with every doom laden headline. It was touch and go in the last couple of years whether or not the new owners would continue car production here.
Losing TVR was tragic. Their daring, imaginative, free-spirited approach to car design was a breath of fresh air and the roads and motor shows are that little bit more boring since they stopped production.
But losing Lotus would be a total travesty. They have so much more respect within the car industry than they find among the buying public. Many crow on about Porsche's history and heritage but just look at Lotus's! And before you say they've done nothing since the 1990's remember that Porsche haven't won Le Mans since the 1990's either. So many of the brands that many here consider superior actually consulted Lotus or used their cars as benchmarks. The Ford GT steers beautifully thanks to Lotus. Nissan wanted to take on the world with the GTR who did they turn to? Ferrari benchmarked the Evora when developing the 458's steering. Yes, really.
So what do UK journalists and majority of car 'enthusiasts' do when Lotus are on the brink? Do they rally round, insist that everyone at least tries a Lotus while they still can? No. It would appear they see it as an opportunity to stick the boot in and recommend that anyone considering an Evora should buy a Cayman at every opportunity. And each time quoting the purely theoretical base prices for the Cayman and 911.
I get that a struggling company doesn't inspire much confidence in buyers but it strikes me that choosing to add to the success of an already dominant 'rival' German car company is the absolutely least helpful thing a UK buyer can do.
I think for whatever reason there's a something of a national disposition to be negative about our ourselves. Something I was hoping the incredible 2012 Olympics would start to erode. But alas it was short lived. The cricket team are crap again. Our football team always were a bunch of overpaid losers. Mansell is a moaning Brummie. Damon Hill was just riding his Dad's coat-tails, Button's slow and Hamilton's a chav wannabe rapper. Whereas Piquet and Senna had all the talent, Prost was the most intelligent and Schumacher the most dedicated and determined. Unlike Britsh auto workers who are lazy and managed by idiots. BL was an embarassment and the harder working, better managed Germans deserved to wipe the floor with us. You had your chance Britain and you screwed it up! Big, fat rebadged Volkswagen SUV please.
Just for the benefit of those confused by the responses in favour of the Evora, isn't it more reasonable for someone to defend uncharitable opinions about a Lotus than for someone to rush into a thread entitled 'Evora S Sports Racer' to remind everyone why they should have bought a Porsche?
highway said:
Richard-G said:
I don't take it personally, i have no allegiance to the brand, i didn't even pay for my lotus. What I'm finding hilarious and the reason i keep coming back to this thread is that in a microcosm it is everything that is wrong with the modern enthusiast. You want the desert island, you want the blowing palm trees and the warm breeze, but then you want a cold coke with extra ice and maybe a jet ski a bit later with some sky tv before bed.
Neither car gives you both, but in my mind the lotus gives better palm trees and breeze, you just have to reach a bit further for your coke and maybe the beach chair is an extra 10 meters longer walk.
People rubbish the Lotus due to slightly squiffy buttons and a clicky handbrake (thanks clarkson), well the Porsche should be rubbished for not driving as well and for having questionable reliability.
Where did you come by one for free?Neither car gives you both, but in my mind the lotus gives better palm trees and breeze, you just have to reach a bit further for your coke and maybe the beach chair is an extra 10 meters longer walk.
People rubbish the Lotus due to slightly squiffy buttons and a clicky handbrake (thanks clarkson), well the Porsche should be rubbished for not driving as well and for having questionable reliability.
it's a company car.
The Pits said:
Many crow on about Porsche's history and heritage but just look at Lotus's! And before you say they've done nothing since the 1990's remember that Porsche haven't won Le Mans since the 1990's either.
True, Porsche haven't won LM overall since 1998, but then they haven't attempted to either! Furthermore, Porsche vehicles have been racing very successfully at Le Mans for about 60 years - last year for example, the Porsche backed Manthey team came first and second in GTE Pro with the 991 at the first attempt. You can only win the class you race in!Of course they are back in LMP1 this year with the 919 which came 3rd at the Silverstone 6H WEC round last weekend, despite running a low downforce config. It's a big ask to expect them to win LM this year with the 919 as competition is very tough, but they're giving it a hell of a go.
Say what you will about Porsche, but it's hard to think of a marque with a better pedigree in sports car racing.
The Pits said:
So what do UK journalists and majority of car 'enthusiasts' do when Lotus are on the brink? Do they rally round, insist that everyone at least tries a Lotus while they still can? No. It would appear they see it as an opportunity to stick the boot in and recommend that anyone considering an Evora should buy a Cayman at every opportunity. And each time quoting the purely theoretical base prices for the Cayman and 911.
^^^ Those comments aren't justified IMO. There's no point being "in denial" about significant issues with Lotus current product. I don't think anybody wants to be putting the boot into Lotus. The harsh reality is that Boxster/Cayman are in head-on competition for the wallets of customers with £50-£60k to spend on a proper sportscar. The original Elise "trumped" Renault's Spider Sport which achieved very few sales. At the moment Lotus finds itself on the receiving end of a similar process.I hope one day there will be a Lotus sportscar on my drive.
RoverP6B said:
As lovely as the Evora is, the lack of rearward visibility would be an absolute deal-breaker for me, and I'm a pretty big bloke...
The lack of, or the reported lack of? I have reversed two of them several times and never hit anything, and can't remember being vaguely phased by ithighway said:
I always remember Autocars laughable 1997 claim that the Elise had a "saloon car" ride. Sublime car to drive about 60 miles in at a go. Rubbish on the motorway. Exhausting to go long distance in.
The ride on the motorway is fine, extremely comfy seats and driving position too, I did 220 miles in mine in one go a week ago, it was fine and I got out more refreshed and invigorated than when I got in. In fact it has never ever exhausted me.Perhaps if you are the sort of person that can think a door plunger thing is 'miserable', you are just never going to really appreciate a Lotus.
not had time to read everyone’s comments but seems a little sad to me in the last report that pistonheads, a supposed petrol head web site, is more fixated on where to store their Starbucks and how the light switches work than how a car corners, goes, stops or looks.
I agree the lack of a cup holder is a slight pain and the lights still confuse me, even after a year of ownership. However, every time I walk up to my Evora, or turn back to look at it when I am walking away, neither of these even register in mind.
I guess you could argue if you drive a Lotus you don't need caffeine to keep you awake..
C43
I agree the lack of a cup holder is a slight pain and the lights still confuse me, even after a year of ownership. However, every time I walk up to my Evora, or turn back to look at it when I am walking away, neither of these even register in mind.
I guess you could argue if you drive a Lotus you don't need caffeine to keep you awake..
C43
zebedee said:
highway said:
I always remember Autocars laughable 1997 claim that the Elise had a "saloon car" ride. Sublime car to drive about 60 miles in at a go. Rubbish on the motorway. Exhausting to go long distance in.
The ride on the motorway is fine, extremely comfy seats and driving position too, I did 220 miles in mine in one go a week ago, it was fine and I got out more refreshed and invigorated than when I got in. In fact it has never ever exhausted me.Perhaps if you are the sort of person that can think a door plunger thing is 'miserable', you are just never going to really appreciate a Lotus.
The original Elise very much does have a "saloon car" ride, especially against today's cars which seem to all be much more firmly sprung than they used to be. However, the cabin noise obviously isn't remotely comparable to a saloon car and when it's so noisy, it can easily distract one from the fact that the ride comfort is actually very good. I was amazed at how some cheap foam earplugs made an Elise easy to cover long distances in.
highway said:
....
I'm not sure what the newest cars cost them to make but pricing them head on against Porsche is just not sensible. The Porsche is now faster, lighter (LIGHTER!) better equipped and the Evora needs to be less.
It's great to read you're a Lotus fan but you're giving them an unnecessarily hard time. Isn't the standard Evora quicker than all cheaper Caymans and Boxsters? Isn't is also cheaper than the majority of Cayman S versions when the average UK buyer adds £5-10k of options? I'm not sure what the newest cars cost them to make but pricing them head on against Porsche is just not sensible. The Porsche is now faster, lighter (LIGHTER!) better equipped and the Evora needs to be less.
In terms of storage space the Evora can either be like the Boxster/Cayman (no back seats, but a big storage area plus the boot - i.e. comparable to the Porshes' 2 boots) or the 911 with back seats (although granted, they are apparently more cramped than the 911's). I like that Lotus has offered a car with this kind of versatility for buyers, although it does lead people to sleepwalk into unfair criticism of the car ("it's more expensive than a Cayman" and "it's slower than a 911".
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