RE: Evora S Sports Racer: Intro

[otolith]

Are the driving enthusiasts still arguing with the interior trim enthusiasts?

[The Pits]

Ozzie Osmond said:

^^^ Those comments aren't justified IMO. There's no point being "in denial" about significant issues with Lotus current product. I don't think anybody wants to be putting the boot into Lotus. The harsh reality is that Boxster/Cayman are in head-on competition for the wallets of customers with £50-£60k to spend on a proper sportscar. The original Elise "trumped" Renault's Spider Sport which achieved very few sales. At the moment Lotus finds itself on the receiving end of a similar process.

I hope one day there will be a Lotus sportscar on my drive.

I'm not in denial about 'significant issues'. They simply have no significant issues from my point of view. I find the Evora's interior to be a far nicer place to sit and spend time than any Cayman or 911. It feels more special, more exotic, less mass produced. The current Cayman/Boxster interior has moved on hugely from its predecessor which was an remarkable collection of cheap, nasty plastics in a bleak and oppressively dull arrangement. Even so, I don't want a sport button and a 'sport plus' button. I just think that's pathetic in a sports car. I don't want a button to raise my effeminate electric spoiler in town either. I don't want an oversized steering wheel. The nicely sculpted one in the Evora is one of the nicest wheels to use out there. The gearbox on my Exige is exceptionally good. What other company uses actual motorsport derived low-friction cables? Later Evoras use the same gear shift cables. It's very slick and fast shifting. In comparison Porsche's manual feels stiffer and is definitely slower. Using Toyota engines is still crucial if Lotus is ever going to alter the public perception of unreliability. Is it as good as an equivalent bespoke Porsche flat six? No. Is it totally lacking in character and aural appeal? Absolutely not. It sounds terrific for anyone willing to listen. And at least with Lotus they don't detune the engine when they put it in a 'lesser' model. The V6 Exige offers buyers what would be a total fantasy RS spec for a Cayman - 1176kg and 345bhp. Imagine how much Porsche would charge for such a car? Imagine the hype? A Cayman RS for £52k basic! It will never happen with Porsche but is available right now from Lotus. Oh, and no bargain basement McPherson struts either, proper bespoke cast wishbones allround that look good enough to hang in an art gallery.

Electric steering is a 'significant issue' for me that I hope Lotus never adopt. I don't care what noise the door makes when it shuts. I don't want Lotus to start wasting valuable resources and engineering time on such a pointless area. I'd rather they continue to hone the car to within an inch of its life for use on UK roads. I honestly believe the Evora is an oustanding achievement. Dicking around with cup holders will make no difference to sales whatsoever. Actually they spent a lot of time and money giving the MY12 Evora more 'showroom appeal' with soft-touch interior bits and did a great job of it too. Did it make any difference to sales? No.

The only way to sell more Evoras is to get more people to drive them. Whatever they do, they'll never 'beat' Porsche, but they don't need to either. 2000 Evoras for the world was the target and the car is deserving of that at the very least. But good grief they are overlooked, even in their own country. Everyone loves to point fingers at the car. But I guarantee you wouldn't sell many Caymans using Lotus's current dealer network.

[RoverP6B]

zebedee said:

The lack of, or the reported lack of? I have reversed two of them several times and never hit anything, and can't remember being vaguely phased by it

It's not so much about hitting stuff as what it does to my neck. My neck muscles ached permanently when I was running an E46 3-series Touring because there was so little glazing at the rear, thanks to the rising waistline - looking over my shoulder while reversing was not nice. The E30 I had before was brilliant, as is the E39 I now have (all Tourings) - insufficient glazing area is a literal pain in the neck for me. The Evora's rear windscreen is tiny and the C-pillars are massive - whereas the essentially similar Ginetta G60 has a massive glass-house and quite small pillars. If I was in the market for such a car, that would be enough to persuade me to go for the Ginetta over the Lotus.

[kambites]

Maybe that's why some people have problems and some don't even notice it. I don't think I've looked directly out of the back window of a car (as opposed to in the mirrors) in the last five years.

I despise thick A-pillars, but I couldn't really care less about anything further back as long as the mirrors are up to scratch.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 24th April 18:07

[Nohedes]

This is all getting a bit unseemly really. I've said it before on this thread, but to repeat, these are two great marques making excellent cars that appeal to enthusiasts. Each marque/model is different in execution and has different strengths but both are more exciting than the other 98% of cars on the road.

Lotus don't make cars that fall apart with st engines and are inpractical. The Boxster/Cayman/911 are not ill-handling, joyless devices for poseurs. It just comes down to personal choice

[The Wookie]

RoverP6B said:

It's not so much about hitting stuff as what it does to my neck. My neck muscles ached permanently when I was running an E46 3-series Touring because there was so little glazing at the rear, thanks to the rising waistline - looking over my shoulder while reversing was not nice. The E30 I had before was brilliant, as is the E39 I now have (all Tourings) - insufficient glazing area is a literal pain in the neck for me. The Evora's rear windscreen is tiny and the C-pillars are massive - whereas the essentially similar Ginetta G60 has a massive glass-house and quite small pillars. If I was in the market for such a car, that would be enough to persuade me to go for the Ginetta over the Lotus.

I do blindspot checks in mine as I would do in any other car, for reversing I don't think I've ever actually looked backwards in the Evora. As said, the big mirrors and parking sensors do the job perfectly well and the reversing camera is a bonus.

No it's not as easy to park as a 911 initially, but you get used to it.

I think that's the big thing with the Evora, there are a few aspects of the usability that aren't great but you can easily get used to, once you have (took me about a month) then you never really notice them.

As said before, entry/egress being 6'5" and awkward luggage space limiting what sort of bags I can carry are the only repeat annoyances for me, in terms of the latter the 997 I had was only fractionally better.

[lockhart flawse]

I think that a lot of the reaction to the last Evora update is because a lot of people are fed up reading about Caymans, 911s, M3s, RS6s, X6s, GTIs or whatever - I know I am.

I have never owned a Lotus but I am interested in the long-term test and would consider one as and when I decide I have spent long enough in the Griff. I also thought Garlick's update was a bit of a missed opportunity given that he had never driven one before; perhaps he should have spent a bit longer with it first. And, like a lot of people it seems, I don't give a damn about cup holders, rear visibility or whatever. There isn't really anywhere to put my phone and wallet in the Griff either (although there is in a Chim) but who cares? A car either grabs you or it doesn't and a a grey Cayman does not interest me at all.

More Lotus, Ginetta, Morgan, Caterham etc and less "premium" German, mass-produced, monochrome, diesel dross please.

Air-cooled 911s are another matter however and I love those.

Edited by lockhart flawse on Thursday 24th April 19:14

[limpsfield]

RoverP6B said:

It's not so much about hitting stuff as what it does to my neck. My neck muscles ached permanently when I was running an E46 3-series Touring because there was so little glazing at the rear, thanks to the rising waistline - looking over my shoulder while reversing was not nice. The E30 I had before was brilliant, as is the E39 I now have (all Tourings) - insufficient glazing area is a literal pain in the neck for me. The Evora's rear windscreen is tiny and the C-pillars are massive - whereas the essentially similar Ginetta G60 has a massive glass-house and quite small pillars. If I was in the market for such a car, that would be enough to persuade me to go for the Ginetta over the Lotus.

I never understand all these BMW E numbers thing.

Anyway, I have never bothered looking over my shoulder when reversing as there is nothing to see. Out of.

The discussion over the last 24 hours has taken a turn for the ridiculous.

Great cars. But most people for now will still buy Porsches, or even more likely stick with their silver Audi diesels.

In Garlick's defence, I don't think his job at PH is as a journo, although I too was surprised that considering where he works this was his first go in a Lotus.

Edited by limpsfield on Thursday 24th April 19:17

[blueg33]

I have to admit to leaving the Evora illegally parked for 5 mins yesterday at a small supermarket. There was one space free but if I had parked in it I couldn't have got out of the car (I would have been ok in the A6 or Alpine). If oi had parked so I could get out the person parked next to me wouldn't have been able to open his door.

Traffic warden liked the car though and I didn't get a ticket

[ant leigh]

kambites said:

Each to their own but personally I think I'd rather passenger with someone who looks at what's outside the car when driving, rather than someone who stars at the tops of their doors.

Perhaps we here have the explanation for why German cars are driven so badly - the people who buy them spend all their time staring at the interior rather than the road.

[zebedee]

RoverP6B said:

It's not so much about hitting stuff as what it does to my neck. My neck muscles ached permanently when I was running an E46 3-series Touring because there was so little glazing at the rear, thanks to the rising waistline - looking over my shoulder while reversing was not nice. The E30 I had before was brilliant, as is the E39 I now have (all Tourings) - insufficient glazing area is a literal pain in the neck for me. The Evora's rear windscreen is tiny and the C-pillars are massive - whereas the essentially similar Ginetta G60 has a massive glass-house and quite small pillars. If I was in the market for such a car, that would be enough to persuade me to go for the Ginetta over the Lotus.

fair enough, 'mine' had the reversing camera - worth checking if that is the only deal breaker? Finding £35k is my only deal breaker at the moment

[MJK 24]

Hedgerley said:

blueg33 said:

Here is a review from a 1 month long test

Evora Review

I like this quote

Review said:

....making up for its daily driver shortcomings with one of the most incredible chassis on a car costing less than £200k.

Having recently driven the fantastic McLaren MP4-12C Spider, we can safely say that the Evora is just a few inches away from the poise and refinement that the McLaren offers, at about a third of the price.

The comparison to Mclaren is interesting. A Top Gear road test from the middle of last year ran the Ferrari 458 Spider vs the McClaren 12C Spider, two technological tour de forces costing £198k and £195k respectively. Here's an interesting quote -

"Run a decent set of bumps, of which there are many on the roads around here, and the way the little McLaren taps lightly from one to the other is borderline witchcraft. A dancers gait. Not quite a Lotus Evora level of chassis balance over rough stuff, but not far off". (Bold emphasis mine)

Whilst this is not the first time I've seen such comparisons, they always bring a smile to my face, that this little outfit in the wilds of Norfolk, with virtually no money, can stand tall against such opposition, companies with massively more resource at their disposal and of course such an expensive final product. Makes me proud to be a Lotus owner.

Ferrari went on record and said that the Evora was their benchmark for ride and handling when developing the 458 Italia.

[Olivera]

I'm a fan of the Evora, even more so the new Exige V6.

However, Evora sales for 2013 were poor. 98 new registrations according to howmanyleft. I'm not going to tally up the numbers for the 911, but it's surely many thousand in comparison.

The Evora has been praised as a great car, so as others have stated, is it simply a case of they make what the public doesn't want?

[MJK 24]

Olivera said:

I'm a fan of the Evora, even more so the new Exige V6.

However, Evora sales for 2013 were poor. 98 new registrations according to howmanyleft. I'm not going to tally up the numbers for the 911, but it's surely many thousand in comparison.

The Evora has been praised as a great car, so as others have stated, is it simply a case of they make what the public doesn't want?

Worldwide sales were above target in 2013. Pretty sure it was 1,600 cars sold.

[Nohedes]

MJK 24 said:

Worldwide sales were above target in 2013. Pretty sure it was 1,600 cars sold.

I think total sales for Lotus were c1,400 in 2013 (calendar year), not sure how many were Evoras. Still, sales in 2013 were up significantly on 2012 and the current run rate appears to be c2,000 sales per annum across the range.

[Dave211]

900T-R said:

Dave211 said:

Just pulled up for a coffee after 110 miles in my daily driver Evora S. Super comfortable drive on the way down

Strangely, that point never crops up in reviews (except Evo's) but IMO is the key to the Lotus' daily useability - the ride quality that makes just about every 'sporty' German car (and a lot of non-sporting ones, too) look more than a little compromised and silly for today's roads.

If I were driving London to Teddington v.v. every working day I'd be a bit more concerned about this than where to put my wallet other than in my coat pocket where it belongs.

Good point. So here's my quick review of a 3 yr old Evora S in terms of suitability for daily use, using today as an example.

First off, for me, this is a car that will have only me in it 90% the time , the rest with a single passenger. If I want more seats, I will take one of my other cars. For ref my car is a 2+0, as I personally will only use the car in that mode and the extra space behind the front seats will be handy for touring etc.....eg lots of luggage space.

So I go out to the car with a laptop bag, open the rear hatch and place in luggage compartment. Enough space left for a soft suitcase for hols etc.. Enter into the car and if I need to take the phone and wallet out of my trousers, I can place them in the slim glovebox, the side pockets in the door or the cavernous space behind me from having no rear seats. However I feel a bit masochistic today, so leave them in my pockets,

I start the car, turn the heated seat on, choose my music from my ipod via the alpine system and then put my destination in the Satnav. I select reverse and use the side mirrors, rear parking sensors and reverse camera displayed on the alpine system to manoeuvre the car without killing anyone or damaging my alloys.

I'm then on my way. I have one option to play with the sound / characteristics of the car....the Sports button. I decide it's going to be a relaxing drive today, so do not engage sports button and instead enjoy the relative quiet noise in the cabin and relaxed engagement of the accelerator.

I use the Alpine system to make a few hands free calls to work, with no problems chatting at national speed limits.

As I move along the bumpy b and a roads , I revel in the smooth comfortable ride of the car. Surely sports cars shouldn't be this comfortable ! The torque from the car at low revs, makes for easy , relaxed overtaking of other traffic when required. You notice other drivers are very aware of your car as you approach, but no hostility when you overtake, just admiring or quite often open jawed expressions.

As I hit the motorway, I engage Cruise control. Once again you notice the courteous nature of other drivers , as they pull over to let you pass, quite often with a smile and a child in the back pinned to the side window. Even more evident when hitting traffic jams, people make space for you.

I pull up at a client site to find no parking spaces left. The receptionist comes out of the building and moveds other cars around to allow me to park the car, commenting how stunning the car is. As we then go into reception she calls me round to the view the CCTV camera , showing staff coming out to view the car. Very surreal moment with people bending over backwards to help

Then to top it all follow Plato in his Cayenne Turbo on the M40, for him to kindly pull into the middle lane to let me to past. He obviously had 45kg ballast weight in place

Then to finish the night, go to a local car meet where the organiser commented how he had never seen one of these cars and loved it

It's a nice world with Lotus

So there you have it. Not a bad place to be for daily driving, with the added advantage that with the press of a sport button and bit more pressure on the accelerator you also have a great hoon car,

To try and balance it, what are the bad points for daily driving . Hmmmmmmm. Evora S is a little heavy on fuel, but the NA version is very frugal. The doors need to open quite wide, so you need a decant parking space to get in/out. The car does create a lot of attention, which can mean other driver are maybe not paying as much attention to the road as they should. The sound system isn't top end in terms of sound quality. Allegedly the car goes through tyres quickly. Too many options where to place keys and wallet sometimes

However if you want a sensible performance daily car, buy a BMW m235i , which will get automatic approval from the PH team .

Edited by Dave211 on Thursday 24th April 21:54

[juansolo]

Hedgerley said:

blueg33 said:

Here is a review from a 1 month long test

Evora Review

I like this quote

Review said:

....making up for its daily driver shortcomings with one of the most incredible chassis on a car costing less than £200k.

Having recently driven the fantastic McLaren MP4-12C Spider, we can safely say that the Evora is just a few inches away from the poise and refinement that the McLaren offers, at about a third of the price.

The comparison to Mclaren is interesting. A Top Gear road test from the middle of last year ran the Ferrari 458 Spider vs the McClaren 12C Spider, two technological tour de forces costing £198k and £195k respectively. Here's an interesting quote -

"Run a decent set of bumps, of which there are many on the roads around here, and the way the little McLaren taps lightly from one to the other is borderline witchcraft. A dancers gait. Not quite a Lotus Evora level of chassis balance over rough stuff, but not far off". (Bold emphasis mine)

Whilst this is not the first time I've seen such comparisons, they always bring a smile to my face, that this little outfit in the wilds of Norfolk, with virtually no money, can stand tall against such opposition, companies with massively more resource at their disposal and of course such an expensive final product. Makes me proud to be a Lotus owner.

It's the most impressive thing about the car IMO. What it can do over our roads (that are fked) is staggering. I was doing some quite frankly silly speeds in an Evora around Harrogate that I wouldn't dream of doing in my Cayman as I value my spine.

I also love that Lotus can do this time after time (my Elise was the same) using non-active suspension. I tend to think that everyone who thinks a sports car should have hard ride hasn't driven a Lotus, it really is a revelation.

[SidewaysSi]

juansolo said:

Hedgerley said:

blueg33 said:

Here is a review from a 1 month long test

Evora Review

I like this quote

Review said:

....making up for its daily driver shortcomings with one of the most incredible chassis on a car costing less than £200k.

Having recently driven the fantastic McLaren MP4-12C Spider, we can safely say that the Evora is just a few inches away from the poise and refinement that the McLaren offers, at about a third of the price.

The comparison to Mclaren is interesting. A Top Gear road test from the middle of last year ran the Ferrari 458 Spider vs the McClaren 12C Spider, two technological tour de forces costing £198k and £195k respectively. Here's an interesting quote -

"Run a decent set of bumps, of which there are many on the roads around here, and the way the little McLaren taps lightly from one to the other is borderline witchcraft. A dancers gait. Not quite a Lotus Evora level of chassis balance over rough stuff, but not far off". (Bold emphasis mine)

Whilst this is not the first time I've seen such comparisons, they always bring a smile to my face, that this little outfit in the wilds of Norfolk, with virtually no money, can stand tall against such opposition, companies with massively more resource at their disposal and of course such an expensive final product. Makes me proud to be a Lotus owner.

It's the most impressive thing about the car IMO. What it can do over our roads (that are fked) is staggering. I was doing some quite frankly silly speeds in an Evora around Harrogate that I wouldn't dream of doing in my Cayman as I value my spine.

I also love that Lotus can do this time after time (my Elise was the same) using non-active suspension. I tend to think that everyone who thinks a sports car should have hard ride hasn't driven a Lotus, it really is a revelation.

Indeed. I found the Exige V6 to also have stunning on road capability. Then there's the steering...something no Porsche can match. But where would I put my wallet?

[juansolo]

SidewaysSi said:

Indeed. I found the Exige V6 to also have stunning on road capability. Then there's the steering...something no Porsche can match. But where would I put my wallet?

I've never used them, but the cup holders really are mightily impressive...

...and the glovebox, good lord the glove box!

[chrispmartha]

juansolo said:

I've never used them, but the cup holders really are mightily impressive...

...and the glovebox, good lord the glove box!

The cup holders on the Cayman are the worst things about the cars, they are utterly useless, I tried to use them with a large Coffee, most of it ended up on the floor and dashboard.

The glovebox has a pen holder though, thats pretty good ;-)