Brand New Citroen DS5 - plenty of faults and bad paint job
Discussion
A brand new car should be fault free, including minor cosmetic defects. This is the wording of the law is not mine. That front bumper alone is more then a minor paint defect.
My goal is not shaming Citroen, please believe me. Loeb and not Schumacher is my favourite driver, although both are undeniable true Legends. What Citroen did in WRC in the past decade or so is just Beautiful. Also Citroen chose to walk different path then everyone else and this is rare. Off-course non counts if you keep building crappy cars and/or your customer service is non existing.
All I want is brand new car that looks and behaves like one, or if this is not possible - a full refund. Citroen and the Dealer are being shamed by their own actions.
Why should I pay for the car's depreciation because they are not able to provide me with a functional brand new car. Why should I care that they are not making a profit from this deal. Why should I pay the bill for their incompetence, unprofessional behaviour and appalling after selling customer service.
They never called back to see if I'm happy with the car after I returned it first time. I was the one to keep call back and to insist for them to have another look at the car. They even tryed to convince me to take it to my local Dealer to have it checked with no stamped and signed warranty certificate. No PDI. They promised to refund me the wheel alignment job and for the fuel used to bring the car back to them and so far after a couple of calls and emails - no refund, nada.
This car doesn't have minor issues, this are serious ones. You can argue as much as you want that the steering is fine... is not. Anyone who has an average experience and knowledge about cars can tell you that is not.
Cheers
My goal is not shaming Citroen, please believe me. Loeb and not Schumacher is my favourite driver, although both are undeniable true Legends. What Citroen did in WRC in the past decade or so is just Beautiful. Also Citroen chose to walk different path then everyone else and this is rare. Off-course non counts if you keep building crappy cars and/or your customer service is non existing.
All I want is brand new car that looks and behaves like one, or if this is not possible - a full refund. Citroen and the Dealer are being shamed by their own actions.
Why should I pay for the car's depreciation because they are not able to provide me with a functional brand new car. Why should I care that they are not making a profit from this deal. Why should I pay the bill for their incompetence, unprofessional behaviour and appalling after selling customer service.
They never called back to see if I'm happy with the car after I returned it first time. I was the one to keep call back and to insist for them to have another look at the car. They even tryed to convince me to take it to my local Dealer to have it checked with no stamped and signed warranty certificate. No PDI. They promised to refund me the wheel alignment job and for the fuel used to bring the car back to them and so far after a couple of calls and emails - no refund, nada.
This car doesn't have minor issues, this are serious ones. You can argue as much as you want that the steering is fine... is not. Anyone who has an average experience and knowledge about cars can tell you that is not.
Cheers
TooMany2cvs said:
Would you be so kind as to give us a reference to that law? Act, section?
Just use a search engine and you will find pages like:http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nireland/consumer_ni...
The above link makes reference to Sale of Goods Act 1979.
The following link to FOS homepage explains your rights when you buy a product with credit, like I did. In my case was Conditional Sale Agreement and Section 75 of Consumers Credit Act 1974 applies. If the vehicle is purchased through a Hire Purchase contract then The Supply of Goods Act 1973 applyes.
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
Also try to find Whatcar Helpdesk Factsheet on internet as this will clarify your rights as well.
Hope this helps Adrian C
Edited by mbrad26 on Wednesday 16th April 02:14
TooMany2cvs said:
It always helps, though, if it does say what somebody says it does and then reassures us all with "And that's the actual wording of the law, not my words"
I can't help but notice that somehow I have offended you. If so please accept my apologies. If Citizens Advice tell on their home page that a new car should be fault free, even from minor ones how should I interpret this. Are these my words?
If Financial Ombudsman Service does the same thing, when referring to new cars, how on earth is this the product of my imagination?
Let's not forget about legal precedents rulings that have become laws and which very clearly define how a new car should be and what customers should expect from a new car.
Thank you
TooMany2cvs said:
Look, you've got a case for the bumper, definitely. You may very well have a case for the steering. But don't embarrass yourself by embroidering all this rubbish to support your desired outcome.
You explicitly stated that the _wording_ of the law said something specific, which it clearly doesn't.
You're now saying that the home page on the CAB's website says something. Their home page doesn't even mention cars, let alone new ones - and searching their site for the words "new car" doesn't come back with anything even remotely relevant in a quick scan of the 74 results. Searching their site for "new car fault free" comes back with three results - small claims, bedroom tax and disabled volunteers.
The Financial Ombudsman doesn't even deal with car purchases, apart from the finance products you might take on them.
If there are legal precedents that support your case, great. Name a few. But I'll bet there's just as many which give the dealer right to repair in cases like this.
In the meantime, we could just remember those sections of SOGA that I quoted above - the ones that clearly show that you certainly DO have the right to get the car repaired, but you're very premature in trying to reject it, and that the supplier has the right to repair where rejection would be disproportionate. Like a mis-matched front bumper and a minor suspension/steering alignment issue on a new car.
You have a case. Nobody's saying otherwise. But calm down a bit, think rather than rant, and you might actually start to get somewhere in getting some goodwill and help in resolving it from both the dealer and CitUK. At least give them more than one full working day between noticing the bumper mis-match and starting threads such as this. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, remember?
If t'were me, especially given the distance involved - I'd just vow not to ever darken the supplying dealer's door again, and get your local dealer onside with resolving what's clearly a couple of easily and quickly fixable problems. Re-reading your original post, I notice that you've actually been talking to them, that they agree that there's a steering issue - but, rather than let them resolve it, you immediately went back to shouting to the original supplying dealer, who you'd already started to try to reject the car through. And, less than a week later, you're shouting all over t'web about it.
If this was your customer, would you regard these as the actions of a reasonable man trying to get the problem _solved_?
OK You explicitly stated that the _wording_ of the law said something specific, which it clearly doesn't.
You're now saying that the home page on the CAB's website says something. Their home page doesn't even mention cars, let alone new ones - and searching their site for the words "new car" doesn't come back with anything even remotely relevant in a quick scan of the 74 results. Searching their site for "new car fault free" comes back with three results - small claims, bedroom tax and disabled volunteers.
The Financial Ombudsman doesn't even deal with car purchases, apart from the finance products you might take on them.
If there are legal precedents that support your case, great. Name a few. But I'll bet there's just as many which give the dealer right to repair in cases like this.
In the meantime, we could just remember those sections of SOGA that I quoted above - the ones that clearly show that you certainly DO have the right to get the car repaired, but you're very premature in trying to reject it, and that the supplier has the right to repair where rejection would be disproportionate. Like a mis-matched front bumper and a minor suspension/steering alignment issue on a new car.
You have a case. Nobody's saying otherwise. But calm down a bit, think rather than rant, and you might actually start to get somewhere in getting some goodwill and help in resolving it from both the dealer and CitUK. At least give them more than one full working day between noticing the bumper mis-match and starting threads such as this. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, remember?
If t'were me, especially given the distance involved - I'd just vow not to ever darken the supplying dealer's door again, and get your local dealer onside with resolving what's clearly a couple of easily and quickly fixable problems. Re-reading your original post, I notice that you've actually been talking to them, that they agree that there's a steering issue - but, rather than let them resolve it, you immediately went back to shouting to the original supplying dealer, who you'd already started to try to reject the car through. And, less than a week later, you're shouting all over t'web about it.
If this was your customer, would you regard these as the actions of a reasonable man trying to get the problem _solved_?
First I'm not shouting I'm just exposing my situation. I'm clearly the underdog in this story. I'm just trying to equalize the balance of power.
Second please follow this link:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_ni/...
...and you will find this:
"Be of satisfactory appearance and finish
You can expect a new item to have a good appearance and finish. If it doesn't, it's probably not of satisfactory quality, even if it has no other faults. For example, a new car with scratches or a shop-soiled dress aren't of satisfactory quality."
Now follow this link:
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
... and you will find this:
"new and used vehicles
Consumers are entitled to expect a brand-new vehicle to be free from even minor faults, including cosmetic ones"
I purchased the car through a Conditional Sale agreement, and so Financial Ombudsman can have a say on this.
If you go here http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/ you will find plenty of suitable legal precedents.
I don't rant about it I'm just telling like it is - I'm presenting facts. Why are you so virulent?
I took my car to another Citroen Dealer to be inspected and although they did find something strange during the initial test drive, their final report was that my car is in perfect working order. This was either because of their incompetence, either part of a cover up. They never proposed me to let the car be repaired by them. If it was so easy to fix I'm sure that it would of been fixed by now.I don't know how you come to your conclusion that I didn't let them to fix my car - complete false.
Thank you and please calm a little, I'm not your enemy here, not at all. Even if you do not agree with me, by posting on this thread you are still doing me a favour by keeping this story relevant. So , one more time Thank You.
EDIT:
The following I find it to be very interesting and helpful in clarifying our litle stand off
The case law Rogers v Parish (Scarborough) Ltd; CA 1987 is of relevance to this situation:
Mustill LJ said: “This being so, I think it legitimate to look at the whole issue afresh with direct reference to the words of section 14(6). Starting with the purpose for which ‘goods of that kind’ are commonly bought, one would include in respect of any passenger vehicle not merely the buyer’s purpose of driving the car from one place to another but of doing so with the appropriate degree of comfort, ease of handling and reliability and, one might add, of pride in the vehicle’s outward and interior appearance.”
Thank you and goodnight
Edited by mbrad26 on Thursday 17th April 21:09
nct001 said:
OP contact your finance company, explain that you believe you have been sold a dangerous and seriously defective vehicle. (I don't think you have)
The area representative for finance co will arrange to meet you and given this finance company was provided by the selling dealer, they are most likely financing the stock for that dealer.
Arrange a meeting with fin co, supplying dealer and yourself. The bumper mismatch is plain to see and will be resolved either with a new one from production line or repainted. Most likely the supplying dealer under this pressure will wash his hands of the deal and you will hand car back.
If you follow this, there is no way the finance company will not inspect vehicle, as and lets get a lawyer in, consumer credit acts and so on, mean you face additional consumer protection from this finance agreement.
HiThe area representative for finance co will arrange to meet you and given this finance company was provided by the selling dealer, they are most likely financing the stock for that dealer.
Arrange a meeting with fin co, supplying dealer and yourself. The bumper mismatch is plain to see and will be resolved either with a new one from production line or repainted. Most likely the supplying dealer under this pressure will wash his hands of the deal and you will hand car back.
If you follow this, there is no way the finance company will not inspect vehicle, as and lets get a lawyer in, consumer credit acts and so on, mean you face additional consumer protection from this finance agreement.
Thanks for advice. The FC has been notified about my problems from day one. Although, initially they appeared to be helpful, in the end they declined any responsibility. I've been told that everything is between me and the dealer.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
This.
I rejected a new Alfa about 5 years ago, and it was the finance company that were the key to everything (closely followed by the dealer).
Without the finance company playing ball, you will have a much harder time of it.
HiI rejected a new Alfa about 5 years ago, and it was the finance company that were the key to everything (closely followed by the dealer).
Without the finance company playing ball, you will have a much harder time of it.
Thanks for advice. I will have another talk with FC later today. But like I said before they told me that they have no responsibility and everything is between me and the Dealer. Their statement is clearly ridiculous but this is their response to my Complaint Letter sent to them. This statement was over the phone and I'm still waiting for an official written response.
Cheers
Hi
Just spoke with BPF and this proved to be a total waste of time. I would like to remind you that I already kept B. Partner Finance informed about everything since I took delivery of the car, also sent them a rejection letter explaining why I rejected the car so on.
I have phoned them tonight to ask them to reconsider their position and to assume their responsibility as required by Section 75 of Consumer Section Act 1974. They advised me that is not possible and they will book me for a call back from one of their senior advisers. I begun to cry and laugh because this was the 3rd time when BPF was booking me for a call back and I've never been called back. Appalling Customer Service...
I got asked the following:
"So what's wrong with the car?"
"Is the car still with you?"
"Did you returned the car?"
"When did you returned the car?"
"What the Dealer told you?''
... and my favourite:
"So what's the purpose of this call ?"
Basically I had to explain everything one more time to a new advisor and in the end to be told that there is nothing new in their position.
After I've calmed down a little bit I have contacted Financial Ombudsman Service and made an official complaint.
Cheers
Just spoke with BPF and this proved to be a total waste of time. I would like to remind you that I already kept B. Partner Finance informed about everything since I took delivery of the car, also sent them a rejection letter explaining why I rejected the car so on.
I have phoned them tonight to ask them to reconsider their position and to assume their responsibility as required by Section 75 of Consumer Section Act 1974. They advised me that is not possible and they will book me for a call back from one of their senior advisers. I begun to cry and laugh because this was the 3rd time when BPF was booking me for a call back and I've never been called back. Appalling Customer Service...
I got asked the following:
"So what's wrong with the car?"
"Is the car still with you?"
"Did you returned the car?"
"When did you returned the car?"
"What the Dealer told you?''
... and my favourite:
"So what's the purpose of this call ?"
Basically I had to explain everything one more time to a new advisor and in the end to be told that there is nothing new in their position.
After I've calmed down a little bit I have contacted Financial Ombudsman Service and made an official complaint.
Cheers
Hi guys
Bad news for me.
Citron UK called to ask me what exactly is it that I want: refund, replacement...
I've been told that Citroen UK is siding with his Dealer with regards to the steering and suspension issues as there wasn't any faults found during the vehicle inspection.
Also they sent out a Citroen paint specialist () to check the front bumper and the conclusion is that the miss-colour issue is due to the nature of the different materials: front bumper made from plastic and the body panels are being made from metal. Obviously I have protested against this statement. I asked why the rear bumper doesn't have the same issue as is also made from plastic - I didn't get an answer to this question.
They will call me back later today... I don't know why they even bother.
Cheers
Bad news for me.
Citron UK called to ask me what exactly is it that I want: refund, replacement...
I've been told that Citroen UK is siding with his Dealer with regards to the steering and suspension issues as there wasn't any faults found during the vehicle inspection.
Also they sent out a Citroen paint specialist (
) to check the front bumper and the conclusion is that the miss-colour issue is due to the nature of the different materials: front bumper made from plastic and the body panels are being made from metal. Obviously I have protested against this statement. I asked why the rear bumper doesn't have the same issue as is also made from plastic - I didn't get an answer to this question.They will call me back later today... I don't know why they even bother.
Cheers
Hi again.
Good news for me
What a day!!! It seems there may be a positive outcome for me.
At this moment in time I can't give any details about this as I'm still waiting for more details myself.
Thanks for support and for making this happening.
I will be back as soon as I have more details.
THANK YOU ALL
Good news for me
What a day!!! It seems there may be a positive outcome for me.
At this moment in time I can't give any details about this as I'm still waiting for more details myself.
Thanks for support and for making this happening.
I will be back as soon as I have more details.
THANK YOU ALL
M4cruiser said:
This part should be easy to check : if you can let us know the official name of the grey colour, then perhaps one (or more) of us on PH can go to our local C dealer and take a snap of an identical car, and demonstrate whether it's true that this colour looks different on metal to plastic.
The colour is called Galena Grey. I have a picture of the rear bumper which is made from plastic and has no paint issue:https://www.flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/1355826...
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