RE: McLaren vs Porsche

[toppstuff]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Pretty soon we will see P1 technology cascade down. So that means electric motors plugging the gaps from turbo lag. Strong rumours that the new GT-R from Nissan in 2016 will be a hybrid. I'm rather looking forward to it, to be honest.

[matsoc]

RoverP6B said:

matsoc said:

I don't think that P13 engine would be NA, without forced induction that engine would just be too...poor, no chance against a 458 or a GT3 too. They should design it from scratch to make it competitive without turbo.

Said so, despite I think that, overall, the MP4-12C is not as good as the 458, I would buy it over a Ferrari. I had the lucky chance to have a brief drive in both and I love the fact that it doesn't takes all the Ferrari attention (at least here in Italy). I also love the looks (but the I can't say the same about the 650s seen in the flesh at Geneva but still not on the roads). The straight line performance is shocking and the added comfort make me believe I would be able to use it more than a 458 for weekend getaways. The 458 gave me more thrills but the MP4-12C made me more curious.

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with the block or head design for natural aspiration? I'm no engineer, but I'd have thought, fit a set of high-compression pistons and you're away.

Well, Mc Laren wouldn't just need a decent NA version, they would need a NA V8 with at least 500hp (or a 911 RS would be more powerful) and emitting less CO2 than the MP4-12C. In that case you need the ideal design. I would start looking if there is chance to increase the bore by 1 mm, redesigning piston rods and crank. Also the cylinder head should be altered to take in consideration reduced the lower mean effective pressures involved...

[OlberJ]

toppstuff said:

Pretty soon we will see P1 technology cascade down. So that means electric motors plugging the gaps from turbo lag. Strong rumours that the new GT-R from Nissan in 2016 will be a hybrid. I'm rather looking forward to it, to be honest.

Or they could always just use fecking SC's!

[Mr Whippy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[Mr Whippy]

Yeah I guess so...

But we've yet to see e-turbo in-fill... hehe

I suppose that is then a hybrid FI system, electric supercharger and turbo combined.

[OlberJ]

Hmmm, with all this electronic regen stuff i'm surprised we haven't seen development of leccy superchargers.

All the benefits, none of the drawbacks?

[RoverP6B]

OlberJ said:

Hmmm, with all this electronic regen stuff i'm surprised we haven't seen development of leccy superchargers.

All the benefits, none of the drawbacks?

So one might have thought. The cheap eBay ones are proven to be useless but I'd have thought fixing an electric motor to the front of a proper supercharger, having a suitable battery/capacitor thing (connected to brake regen, maybe even heat scavenging like the new F1 cars) and using that to drive the blower, could be good...

[Rich_W]

The Vambo said:

lamboman100 said:

Porsche and McLaren are both somewhat overrated. Too clinical and not all that pretty for the prices they charge.

I have asked a dozen posters who have described various cars as "clinical", what, specifically, does it mean?

I still haven't had a decent answer, I can only presume that it is the inverse of the mythical Alfa Romeo "character".

Clinical to me would be the feeling that the car is doing the work for you. That the electronics are metering everything to just the right degree so you always exit the corner at the max speed. But the balance is that the car did it. Not you.

Conversely the other end of the scale would be something relatively simple like an E36/46 M3 Or MX5 or Caterham 7 or even Mk1 Escort. You step on the gas the rear squirms you adjust steering and gas just enough for the rear to grip and you are propelled from the corner. Of course, you aren't going as fast as if the car was working it all out for you. But the sensation is that YOU did it. You controlled it. And that ego boost is what fuels the connection with a car.

Supercars of the 2010s will all be computer controlled in some factor. But if Ferrari can get the car to "feel" more like a M3/Go Kart (you may remember the Kart analogy wrt F40) whereas McLaren want you to be going as fast as possible. It's a calibration thing on these cars. (Hence early 12C tests suggested the car was in control too much. The 5thGear spin off was because the car wasn't predictable as it took over too much) But it comes mainly from the direction set by the development team. Max speed or less speed and more fun. I daresay McLaren CAN change the 650s character to be more slip angle, less esp, less cleverness. But is it a direction the company WANT to go in?

Consider a Boeing 777 vs a Cesna. Which would you feel more satisfied to land safely? Given the 777 can do it on it's own.

[Dagnut]

OlberJ said:

Hmmm, with all this electronic regen stuff i'm surprised we haven't seen development of leccy superchargers.

All the benefits, none of the drawbacks?

Superchargers are not as efficient, simple as that.

[OlberJ]

Belt driven ones, yes. But leccy ones could be different.

[anonymous-user]

OlberJ said:

Hmmm, with all this electronic regen stuff i'm surprised we haven't seen development of leccy superchargers.

All the benefits, none of the drawbacks?

There have been plenty of elecy superchargers developed by a range of companies. They pretty much all (except one) fall down on the lack of a higher than 12v electrical architecture in production cars. As power = voltage x current, even a poxy 2kW (and a typical turbo can take 30kW to drive it!) takes hundreds of amps at only 12v. That makes it in-efficient, heavy, and costly.

However, you will see electrically assisted turbo chargers very soon from a number of volume OEMs.........

[OlberJ]

And they'll all sound st.

[Mr Whippy]

Another thing about these hybrid cars with oodles of power. Do they have augmented in car heating? Ie, no waiting for the engine to get hot to get nice warm air?

Or does anything with ICE still use a heat exchanger exclusively for heating?

It's always been one of those things I like the idea of with a hybrid, warming the car up before you get near it in winter, so it's all cleared and warm when you get in it to drive off for work!

Hmmm

[Dagnut]

Mr Whippy said:

Another thing about these hybrid cars with oodles of power. Do they have augmented in car heating? Ie, no waiting for the engine to get hot to get nice warm air?

Or does anything with ICE still use a heat exchanger exclusively for heating?

It's always been one of those things I like the idea of with a hybrid, warming the car up before you get near it in winter, so it's all cleared and warm when you get in it to drive off for work!

Hmmm

Plenty of alarms offer remote start, I had a Clifford fitted many years ago that had the functionality. The fob worked from up to a mile away(supposedly)so you could start the car from bed, by the time you got ready the car was nice and warm and ready to go.

[Mr Whippy]

Dagnut said:

Mr Whippy said:

Another thing about these hybrid cars with oodles of power. Do they have augmented in car heating? Ie, no waiting for the engine to get hot to get nice warm air?

Or does anything with ICE still use a heat exchanger exclusively for heating?

It's always been one of those things I like the idea of with a hybrid, warming the car up before you get near it in winter, so it's all cleared and warm when you get in it to drive off for work!

Hmmm

Plenty of alarms offer remote start, I had a Clifford fitted many years ago that had the functionality. The fob worked from up to a mile away(supposedly)so you could start the car from bed, by the time you got ready the car was nice and warm and ready to go.

Isn't that illegal or something though?

Leaving an unattended car running?

The risk you left it in gear and it drives off by itself


A hybrid running heaters only off a battery shouldn't be a problem though?

[Dagnut]

Mr Whippy said:

Isn't that illegal or something though?

Leaving an unattended car running?

The risk you left it in gear and it drives off by itself


A hybrid running heaters only off a battery shouldn't be a problem though?

I'm not sure about the legality of it to be honest...but it was great in the winter

[OlberJ]

It's illegal to leave a car running while stationary these days!

[RoverP6B]

Certainly Cadillac Escalades offer remote start. I wouldn't want a key-fob that worked over that long a range, though. It's bad enough when I'm locking up the house at night and can hear/see the car unlock as I knock the button on its key... not being able to see/hear that I'd done it is asking to leave it open (and potentially running if with remote start) all night...

[Dagnut]

RoverP6B said:

Certainly Cadillac Escalades offer remote start. I wouldn't want a key-fob that worked over that long a range, though. It's bad enough when I'm locking up the house at night and can hear/see the car unlock as I knock the button on its key... not being able to see/hear that I'd done it is asking to leave it open (and potentially running if with remote start) all night...

You have an LCD display on the FOB, this shows whether the car is locked, running or if the alarm has been trigger, also shows where in the car it was triggered, boot or door etc...I lived in an apartment building at the time and parking was around the back, the FOB would also go off so if you couldn't hear your alarm the FOB going off would wake you instantly.

The remote start is also on a timer so you choose how long it runs for, if someone gets in your car with out a key(the alarm also remains trigger while it is running), as soon as the handbrake is released it cuts out...you can also link it to blackjax so a code needs to be entered

[angrymoby]

it's only illegal to leave a vehicle running unattended on a 'public road' in the uk