Insurance issue? Is this normal?
Discussion
nipsips said:
Credit hire is designed for people who cannot afford to hire a replacement vehicle themselves. I used one many moons ago before I was "educated" and the vehicle was dropped off by Avis, paid for by the CHO and then charged to the third party insurer at a vastly higher rate. Let me run you through three scenarios. Say for example you drive a 2005 BMW 320d.
Option 1. Car is repaired by your insurer, and you are given a loan vehicle. This is smaller than yours and if yours is undrivable then there is the option to put you in a larger vehicle (non prestige) if need be for mitigating circumstances. If your vehicle is drivable its only taken off the road whilst repairs are being taken out and then returned. Your insurer then passes its costs onto the other driver insurer and the hire/repair is paid for by them. Nice and simple.
Option 2. Car is repaired by your insurer but as you need a like for like vehicle you hire an equivalent from Enterprise/Avis/Hertz and submit your receipt to the third party insurer to reimburse. If they don't pay this you can then instruct a solicitor because as stated you are entitled to like for like - however as long as costs are reasonable they will pay.
Option 3. You have an accident and a CHO wants to get you into hire as soon as possible. The CHO will put you into an equivalent BMW straight away and will book your car in for an estimate. They will then contact the third party insurer and chase up authorization - or will authorise repairs themselves. Then the parts will be ordered. Then the vehicle will be worked and returned. Meanwhile youve had the use of a BMW for 3 weeks and youre happy as you havent paid a penny.
Until now the third party insurer is rejecting your hire claim and asking you to prove that you couldn't either do option 1 or 2 if you needed a like for like vehicle. They will also ask why you are hiring a prestige vehicle and why you couldnt use a Mondeo while your vehicle was being repaired.
Just as an idea on costs for hire based on a week (not taking into account the inflated times by a CHO):
Enterprise quote for a Ford Mondeo: £149.69
Enterprise quote for a BMW 3 Series: £321.90
Credit Hire ABI max costs for a Ford Mondeo: £321.86
Credit Hire ABI max costs for a BMW 3 Series: £821.38
See how the costs mount up when using a credit hire company? Now wonder why people who work for insurers dislike credit hire companys?
Oh, I understand how it works. - I had an XF for a month after my BMW was crashed into (apparently they didn't have any 3-Series so offered me that instead Option 1. Car is repaired by your insurer, and you are given a loan vehicle. This is smaller than yours and if yours is undrivable then there is the option to put you in a larger vehicle (non prestige) if need be for mitigating circumstances. If your vehicle is drivable its only taken off the road whilst repairs are being taken out and then returned. Your insurer then passes its costs onto the other driver insurer and the hire/repair is paid for by them. Nice and simple.
Option 2. Car is repaired by your insurer but as you need a like for like vehicle you hire an equivalent from Enterprise/Avis/Hertz and submit your receipt to the third party insurer to reimburse. If they don't pay this you can then instruct a solicitor because as stated you are entitled to like for like - however as long as costs are reasonable they will pay.
Option 3. You have an accident and a CHO wants to get you into hire as soon as possible. The CHO will put you into an equivalent BMW straight away and will book your car in for an estimate. They will then contact the third party insurer and chase up authorization - or will authorise repairs themselves. Then the parts will be ordered. Then the vehicle will be worked and returned. Meanwhile youve had the use of a BMW for 3 weeks and youre happy as you havent paid a penny.
Until now the third party insurer is rejecting your hire claim and asking you to prove that you couldn't either do option 1 or 2 if you needed a like for like vehicle. They will also ask why you are hiring a prestige vehicle and why you couldnt use a Mondeo while your vehicle was being repaired.
Just as an idea on costs for hire based on a week (not taking into account the inflated times by a CHO):
Enterprise quote for a Ford Mondeo: £149.69
Enterprise quote for a BMW 3 Series: £321.90
Credit Hire ABI max costs for a Ford Mondeo: £321.86
Credit Hire ABI max costs for a BMW 3 Series: £821.38
See how the costs mount up when using a credit hire company? Now wonder why people who work for insurers dislike credit hire companys?
).Why should you have to smoke around in a Fiesta if someone else damages your Ferrari? The issue, from the insurance companies' point of view, shouldn't be the provision of an equivalent car but the excessive charges on top of what that hire would usually cost.
Whilst I agree with what you're saying in regards for like for like vehicles - surely if you can afford to drive a Ferrari you can afford to hire the replacement and claim it back?
Read this: http://www.keoghs.co.uk/Credit-Hire-AWARE/CoA-conf...
Lets look at Prestige Hire.
A weeks hire in a Bentley Continental GTC from Hertz will cost you £3,441.50 cash. 28 days in said Bentley will cost you £12,020.00. Now Credit Hire organisations who are part of the ABI agreement can claim up to £691.31 PER DAY plus VAT for that car. So the 7 day rate to a credit hire company would be £5,807.00. 28 days in the same car would cost £23,228.01. Now do you see why insurers are starting to quibble as to why people are credit hiring such expensive vehicles?
Read this: http://www.keoghs.co.uk/Credit-Hire-AWARE/CoA-conf...
Lets look at Prestige Hire.
A weeks hire in a Bentley Continental GTC from Hertz will cost you £3,441.50 cash. 28 days in said Bentley will cost you £12,020.00. Now Credit Hire organisations who are part of the ABI agreement can claim up to £691.31 PER DAY plus VAT for that car. So the 7 day rate to a credit hire company would be £5,807.00. 28 days in the same car would cost £23,228.01. Now do you see why insurers are starting to quibble as to why people are credit hiring such expensive vehicles?
nipsips said:
Whilst I agree with what you're saying in regards for like for like vehicles - surely if you can afford to drive a Ferrari you can afford to hire the replacement and claim it back?
Bentleys, Ferraris etc. are one thing (typical owners also usually have other cars) but I drive a Discovery and at 25, I can't hire a "large 4x4" even if I want to due to age restrictions. Even if I could, I wouldn't be prepared to spend £hundreds per week. I often use my car for things that just aren't possible in a supermini or typical courtesy car.The BMW in my profile is actually my fiancée's and she uses it for work so I couldn't just use that, either.
An accident management company was used by my as I just had the accident got home and typed in non fault accident, spoke to these people and it seemed the way forward, my ins was due in a few weeks and I didn't really want to pay an excess and a hiked premium due to this, in hind sight.......
It's not everyday you have to use your insurance or have a crash, I may have gone down the wrong route.
Carl
It's not everyday you have to use your insurance or have a crash, I may have gone down the wrong route.
Carl
I must be overlooking something obvious but...
These companies charge the maximum amount for credit hire as set by an agreement with the ABI.
The ABI want to reduce costs due to credit hire, so why can't they reduce the maximum amounts allowed under the ABI agreements? Surely it could set at something like market hire rate + 20% (to cover the AMC's costs) .
These companies charge the maximum amount for credit hire as set by an agreement with the ABI.
The ABI want to reduce costs due to credit hire, so why can't they reduce the maximum amounts allowed under the ABI agreements? Surely it could set at something like market hire rate + 20% (to cover the AMC's costs) .
Clivey said:
Bentleys, Ferraris etc. are one thing (typical owners also usually have other cars) but I drive a Discovery and at 25, I can't hire a "large 4x4" even if I want to due to age restrictions. Even if I could, I wouldn't be prepared to spend £hundreds per week. I often use my car for things that just aren't possible in a supermini or typical courtesy car.
The BMW in my profile is actually my fiancée's and she uses it for work so I couldn't just use that, either.
In that case the third party insurer would quite happily sort you out the hire of a like for like vehicle using their own approved supplier. It all comes down to whether you need the car etc. I wasn't using a BMW as you drove on, just as a typical example btw. The BMW in my profile is actually my fiancée's and she uses it for work so I couldn't just use that, either.
I personally drive a Ford Mondeo Auto (for my sins) - do I need a Mondeo? Possibly not. Do I need an Auto? No I can drive manuals. Would I have grounds to stand up and court and say a week in a Fiesta would really hurt? No I couldn't. See where I'm coming from?
C. Grimsley said:
An accident management company was used by my as I just had the accident got home and typed in non fault accident, spoke to these people and it seemed the way forward, my ins was due in a few weeks and I didn't really want to pay an excess and a hiked premium due to this, in hind sight.......
It's not everyday you have to use your insurance or have a crash, I may have gone down the wrong route.
Carl
And thats fair enough. You're not the only one! A lot of accident management company's try and say that it will be easier using them which yes it can. However 1 thing that used to be quite common was when you come to sign the paperwork to accept the vehicle there will be a statement along the lines of - "I need a hire car and without a like for like vehicle I would be affected. I also cannot afford to fund a like for like vehicle myself". It's not everyday you have to use your insurance or have a crash, I may have gone down the wrong route.
Carl
Surely it would be better to ask them questions when you first inquire - not when you are handing the vehicle over and you're excited to drive that nice brand new BMW they're giving you for free. If they asked - can you afford to hire yourself, can you get by with a lower class of vehicle, and are you prepared to provide bank statements, business accounts etc if need be you may think hmmm maybe Ill just approach the third party insurer.
I cant speak for other insurers and I'm not prepared to divulge who I work for - for obvious reasons, however we have an innocent third party capture team. When a new claim is reported it instantly fires off to them who will contact the third party, offer them repairs and hire with no excess to pay. If the third party reports and the circumstances are obvious (i.e. hit in rear) they can also deal without prejudice and then carry on to validate it with our insured.
On a completely unrelated note - I deal with foreign claims and it would be a lot better to have a system like the French. You HAVE to fill in Constat Amiable (http://www.autoclub-assurances.fr/files/constat_amiable.pdf) and this proves involvement and circumstances. You are also only entitled to hire for the repair period the engineer states the repair will take i.e. 5 days. Simple hey?
nipsips said:
In that case the third party insurer would quite happily sort you out the hire of a like for like vehicle using their own approved supplier. It all comes down to whether you need the car etc. I wasn't using a BMW as you drove on, just as a typical example btw.
No worries - I realise that. 
It's just that, as I'm sure you appreciate, where the hire car comes from isn't always the first thing on your mind after an accident (see below).nipsips said:
I personally drive a Ford Mondeo Auto (for my sins) - do I need a Mondeo? Possibly not. Do I need an Auto? No I can drive manuals. Would I have grounds to stand up and court and say a week in a Fiesta would really hurt? No I couldn't. See where I'm coming from?
I do. In another incident (before I had the Discovery), I had a Citroen C4. Now that was just a 3-door hatch so pretty much anything a hire company offers would be able to temporarily replace it but TBH I didn't care as the incident involved a luton-bodied van thing falling on my car whilst my fianceé was driving it. It's not nice getting a call saying that a "lorry's fallen on" your loved one, then having to help them with the aftermath (injuries etc.).How are you getting on with this Carl? I have received the same letter yesterday.
By the sounds of this thread I'm going to have give them the details they require and wait and see.
These are their exact words "I can confirm that irrespective of the outcome of your case, no costs will be sought from you directly."
I'm not really sure where I stand with that...
By the sounds of this thread I'm going to have give them the details they require and wait and see.
These are their exact words "I can confirm that irrespective of the outcome of your case, no costs will be sought from you directly."
I'm not really sure where I stand with that...
Chuffing ell, what a nightmare.
I am also just in the process of trying to get my rear bumper sprayed after some numpty went into the back of the car. I initially went with an AMCo that's been recommended on here before but after 3 weeks of chasing them up and nothing happening I've dropped them and instructed to insured parties directly and accepted their offer to fix it at their preferred garage and give my a hire car while it's in.
I just wanted to get it sorted as quickly as possible as the car is up for sale, I thought using an AMCo would rush things along a bit. I was mistaken.
I am also just in the process of trying to get my rear bumper sprayed after some numpty went into the back of the car. I initially went with an AMCo that's been recommended on here before but after 3 weeks of chasing them up and nothing happening I've dropped them and instructed to insured parties directly and accepted their offer to fix it at their preferred garage and give my a hire car while it's in.
I just wanted to get it sorted as quickly as possible as the car is up for sale, I thought using an AMCo would rush things along a bit. I was mistaken.
MTSGarage said:
How are you getting on with this Carl? I have received the same letter yesterday.
By the sounds of this thread I'm going to have give them the details they require and wait and see.
These are their exact words "I can confirm that irrespective of the outcome of your case, no costs will be sought from you directly."
I'm not really sure where I stand with that...
Well the paperwork will be collected tomorrow from the bank, it's quite an amount and I also have my solicitors paperwork that needs answers from the claims management company put in with it although I had the bill from them today, boy they can charge, I will keep this thread updated with the outcome.By the sounds of this thread I'm going to have give them the details they require and wait and see.
These are their exact words "I can confirm that irrespective of the outcome of your case, no costs will be sought from you directly."
I'm not really sure where I stand with that...
Carl
I hope it gets sorted OP, sounds like a s
tty situation and you may end up getting shafted without doing anything wrong, while the liable insurance company have dragged everything out to the max and caused the whole situation in the first place!! I'd be utterly fuming...
Can't help but consider the irony of turning up in a chauffeur driven vehicle to defend a likely claim that you've not mitigated your losses though...
All the best!!
tty situation and you may end up getting shafted without doing anything wrong, while the liable insurance company have dragged everything out to the max and caused the whole situation in the first place!! I'd be utterly fuming...Can't help but consider the irony of turning up in a chauffeur driven vehicle to defend a likely claim that you've not mitigated your losses though...
All the best!!
nipsips said:
On a completely unrelated note - I deal with foreign claims and it would be a lot better to have a system like the French. You HAVE to fill in Constat Amiable (http://www.autoclub-assurances.fr/files/constat_amiable.pdf) and this proves involvement and circumstances. You are also only entitled to hire for the repair period the engineer states the repair will take i.e. 5 days. Simple hey?
May be simple but not very fair if it takes you two months to authorise the repair.Blimey, this was the kind of nightmare I was dreading when we got rear ended on August bank holiday, but the 3rd parties insurers were great.
Hire car and collection of ours sorted within hours, they provided us with a Corsa for our 207, the daily rate on the invoice was around £21 iirc and from the off they made it clear we would not be liable for any charges.
It's one of the insurers you have to deal directly with though and their TV adverts seem to pride themselves on their claim handling.
Can't fault them really, sorry to hear you're having such trouble.
Hire car and collection of ours sorted within hours, they provided us with a Corsa for our 207, the daily rate on the invoice was around £21 iirc and from the off they made it clear we would not be liable for any charges.
It's one of the insurers you have to deal directly with though and their TV adverts seem to pride themselves on their claim handling.
Can't fault them really, sorry to hear you're having such trouble.
Fascinating reading.
The only issue I forsee with allowing the third party insurer to repair your vehicle is that you have no contract with them - you only have a contract with your own insurer. So, if your repair isn't satisfactory it's going to be a lot harder to get it resolved....
The only issue I forsee with allowing the third party insurer to repair your vehicle is that you have no contract with them - you only have a contract with your own insurer. So, if your repair isn't satisfactory it's going to be a lot harder to get it resolved....
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