RE: Subaru WRX STI: Review
Discussion
Unfortunately Subaru are no longer the engineering-led company they use to be.
Most of their cars are designed for big, overweight Americans ( not surprising as it's their biggest market), but a shame nonetheless.
Having said that, I'd still have one over the Golf R, which is a Golf and the default, boring German option.
The Boxer engine still has bags of character.
Most of their cars are designed for big, overweight Americans ( not surprising as it's their biggest market), but a shame nonetheless.
Having said that, I'd still have one over the Golf R, which is a Golf and the default, boring German option.
The Boxer engine still has bags of character.
I suppose we could at least expect the author of the review, one Dan Trent, to not make a silly mistake of fact. But he did, and in all the general blathering that followed, nobody corrected him, so I shall.
The STI does NOT have a viscous limited slip unit around the centre differential. It never has. It uses a cam and pawl arrangement for the limited slip function, and that is squeezed by an electronically controlled clutch to modify the torque split going to the front and rear axles.
I mean, what is the 6 position DCCD switch doing there? Modifying the characteristics of a viscous clutch? Get real. It adjusts the amount of slip and grip of the electronically-controlled clutch.
Then there are the helical gear front diff and Torsen rear diff. Actual AWD.
The basic WRX, which you don't get in the UK, has the cheapo non-adjustable viscous limited slip around its centre diff, and open diffs front and rear.
I'm in Canada. I've driven the one-wheel drive new GTI in both manual and DSG forms. Completely underwhelming and uninvolving to me. A transportation module. Even the gear lever bends, just like it did on my 1980 Golf, 35 years ago. It's probably the same piece of bendy metal just with that extra plastic gloss attached. The DSG is better, but even then there is a general lack of involvement. And the hesitation from start as the wet clutch is automatically engaged is a bit bush league. Not only that, the car is a bit small, and costs $35K with manual, another $1400 for the DSG and, at the very least, an extra $400 in servicing costs to change the magic fluid every 50,000 kilometres. Otherwise, it is pretty completely specced.
I personally prefer the Audi A3 2.0t AWD, which comes standard with DSG for exactly the same $36.4K, but has leather seats standard. Of course, it is poverty-spec otherwise. To get a decent one, add $8K. But AWD helps when it snows, which it does, you know, quite a bit around these parts.
The Golf R isn't available here yet - they're probably waiting to knock it out of the Mexican factory. The S3 begins at $46K with the poverty spec, and costs over $55K for a nice one.
The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy, and NO idiotic wing. All the road tests over here emphasize the hard ride of the new model, so I didn't bother to test drive it until a couple of weeks ago. I wish I'd done it months ago! It's fine, perhaps a tiny bit softer than the totally underwhelming BRZ.
An actual real car with proper steering and Brembo brakes. By far the best I've driven in the last two years looking for an interesting new car. It's actually fun and involving. What a concept. And the STI gearbox is much nicer than the herky jerky one in the WRX.
As for the armchair warriors here opining on this and that, making the usual quips about fat Americans (Brits are almost as obese - check Wikipedia), I expect you'll be happy with whatever old banger you pick up that allows you to have the wherewithal to sit around and type your highly original thoughts at night into Pistonheads, after swallowing the typical carbohydrate and fat-laden meal I see you lot consume when I go back for visits to relatives.
Anyway, the new WRX and STI are selling so well here, there's a 3 month wait. So I'll be ordering mine in February for May delivery. We don't have draconian laws on road tax by grams of CO2 per mile, so aren't reduced to pootling about in diesels. Thank Goodness. Every time I visit the UK, my eyelids swell up from the pollution.
The STI does NOT have a viscous limited slip unit around the centre differential. It never has. It uses a cam and pawl arrangement for the limited slip function, and that is squeezed by an electronically controlled clutch to modify the torque split going to the front and rear axles.
I mean, what is the 6 position DCCD switch doing there? Modifying the characteristics of a viscous clutch? Get real. It adjusts the amount of slip and grip of the electronically-controlled clutch.
Then there are the helical gear front diff and Torsen rear diff. Actual AWD.
The basic WRX, which you don't get in the UK, has the cheapo non-adjustable viscous limited slip around its centre diff, and open diffs front and rear.
I'm in Canada. I've driven the one-wheel drive new GTI in both manual and DSG forms. Completely underwhelming and uninvolving to me. A transportation module. Even the gear lever bends, just like it did on my 1980 Golf, 35 years ago. It's probably the same piece of bendy metal just with that extra plastic gloss attached. The DSG is better, but even then there is a general lack of involvement. And the hesitation from start as the wet clutch is automatically engaged is a bit bush league. Not only that, the car is a bit small, and costs $35K with manual, another $1400 for the DSG and, at the very least, an extra $400 in servicing costs to change the magic fluid every 50,000 kilometres. Otherwise, it is pretty completely specced.
I personally prefer the Audi A3 2.0t AWD, which comes standard with DSG for exactly the same $36.4K, but has leather seats standard. Of course, it is poverty-spec otherwise. To get a decent one, add $8K. But AWD helps when it snows, which it does, you know, quite a bit around these parts.
The Golf R isn't available here yet - they're probably waiting to knock it out of the Mexican factory. The S3 begins at $46K with the poverty spec, and costs over $55K for a nice one.
The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy, and NO idiotic wing. All the road tests over here emphasize the hard ride of the new model, so I didn't bother to test drive it until a couple of weeks ago. I wish I'd done it months ago! It's fine, perhaps a tiny bit softer than the totally underwhelming BRZ.
An actual real car with proper steering and Brembo brakes. By far the best I've driven in the last two years looking for an interesting new car. It's actually fun and involving. What a concept. And the STI gearbox is much nicer than the herky jerky one in the WRX.
As for the armchair warriors here opining on this and that, making the usual quips about fat Americans (Brits are almost as obese - check Wikipedia), I expect you'll be happy with whatever old banger you pick up that allows you to have the wherewithal to sit around and type your highly original thoughts at night into Pistonheads, after swallowing the typical carbohydrate and fat-laden meal I see you lot consume when I go back for visits to relatives.
Anyway, the new WRX and STI are selling so well here, there's a 3 month wait. So I'll be ordering mine in February for May delivery. We don't have draconian laws on road tax by grams of CO2 per mile, so aren't reduced to pootling about in diesels. Thank Goodness. Every time I visit the UK, my eyelids swell up from the pollution.
chignectohead said:
I suppose we could at least expect the author of the review, one Dan Trent, to not make a silly mistake of fact. But he did, and in all the general blathering that followed, nobody corrected him, so I shall.
The STI does NOT have a viscous limited slip unit around the centre differential. It never has. It uses a cam and pawl arrangement for the limited slip function, and that is squeezed by an electronically controlled clutch to modify the torque split going to the front and rear axles.
I mean, what is the 6 position DCCD switch doing there? Modifying the characteristics of a viscous clutch? Get real. It adjusts the amount of slip and grip of the electronically-controlled clutch.
Then there are the helical gear front diff and Torsen rear diff. Actual AWD.
The basic WRX, which you don't get in the UK, has the cheapo non-adjustable viscous limited slip around its centre diff, and open diffs front and rear.
I'm in Canada. I've driven the one-wheel drive new GTI in both manual and DSG forms. Completely underwhelming and uninvolving to me. A transportation module. Even the gear lever bends, just like it did on my 1980 Golf, 35 years ago. It's probably the same piece of bendy metal just with that extra plastic gloss attached. The DSG is better, but even then there is a general lack of involvement. And the hesitation from start as the wet clutch is automatically engaged is a bit bush league. Not only that, the car is a bit small, and costs $35K with manual, another $1400 for the DSG and, at the very least, an extra $400 in servicing costs to change the magic fluid every 50,000 kilometres. Otherwise, it is pretty completely specced.
I personally prefer the Audi A3 2.0t AWD, which comes standard with DSG for exactly the same $36.4K, but has leather seats standard. Of course, it is poverty-spec otherwise. To get a decent one, add $8K. But AWD helps when it snows, which it does, you know, quite a bit around these parts.
The Golf R isn't available here yet - they're probably waiting to knock it out of the Mexican factory. The S3 begins at $46K with the poverty spec, and costs over $55K for a nice one.
The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy, and NO idiotic wing. All the road tests over here emphasize the hard ride of the new model, so I didn't bother to test drive it until a couple of weeks ago. I wish I'd done it months ago! It's fine, perhaps a tiny bit softer than the totally underwhelming BRZ.
An actual real car with proper steering and Brembo brakes. By far the best I've driven in the last two years looking for an interesting new car. It's actually fun and involving. What a concept. And the STI gearbox is much nicer than the herky jerky one in the WRX.
As for the armchair warriors here opining on this and that, making the usual quips about fat Americans (Brits are almost as obese - check Wikipedia), I expect you'll be happy with whatever old banger you pick up that allows you to have the wherewithal to sit around and type your highly original thoughts at night into Pistonheads, after swallowing the typical carbohydrate and fat-laden meal I see you lot consume when I go back for visits to relatives.
Anyway, the new WRX and STI are selling so well here, there's a 3 month wait. So I'll be ordering mine in February for May delivery. We don't have draconian laws on road tax by grams of CO2 per mile, so aren't reduced to pootling about in diesels. Thank Goodness. Every time I visit the UK, my eyelids swell up from the pollution.
But is the weight of all those chips on your shoulder detrimental to the performance of your car?The STI does NOT have a viscous limited slip unit around the centre differential. It never has. It uses a cam and pawl arrangement for the limited slip function, and that is squeezed by an electronically controlled clutch to modify the torque split going to the front and rear axles.
I mean, what is the 6 position DCCD switch doing there? Modifying the characteristics of a viscous clutch? Get real. It adjusts the amount of slip and grip of the electronically-controlled clutch.
Then there are the helical gear front diff and Torsen rear diff. Actual AWD.
The basic WRX, which you don't get in the UK, has the cheapo non-adjustable viscous limited slip around its centre diff, and open diffs front and rear.
I'm in Canada. I've driven the one-wheel drive new GTI in both manual and DSG forms. Completely underwhelming and uninvolving to me. A transportation module. Even the gear lever bends, just like it did on my 1980 Golf, 35 years ago. It's probably the same piece of bendy metal just with that extra plastic gloss attached. The DSG is better, but even then there is a general lack of involvement. And the hesitation from start as the wet clutch is automatically engaged is a bit bush league. Not only that, the car is a bit small, and costs $35K with manual, another $1400 for the DSG and, at the very least, an extra $400 in servicing costs to change the magic fluid every 50,000 kilometres. Otherwise, it is pretty completely specced.
I personally prefer the Audi A3 2.0t AWD, which comes standard with DSG for exactly the same $36.4K, but has leather seats standard. Of course, it is poverty-spec otherwise. To get a decent one, add $8K. But AWD helps when it snows, which it does, you know, quite a bit around these parts.
The Golf R isn't available here yet - they're probably waiting to knock it out of the Mexican factory. The S3 begins at $46K with the poverty spec, and costs over $55K for a nice one.
The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy, and NO idiotic wing. All the road tests over here emphasize the hard ride of the new model, so I didn't bother to test drive it until a couple of weeks ago. I wish I'd done it months ago! It's fine, perhaps a tiny bit softer than the totally underwhelming BRZ.
An actual real car with proper steering and Brembo brakes. By far the best I've driven in the last two years looking for an interesting new car. It's actually fun and involving. What a concept. And the STI gearbox is much nicer than the herky jerky one in the WRX.
As for the armchair warriors here opining on this and that, making the usual quips about fat Americans (Brits are almost as obese - check Wikipedia), I expect you'll be happy with whatever old banger you pick up that allows you to have the wherewithal to sit around and type your highly original thoughts at night into Pistonheads, after swallowing the typical carbohydrate and fat-laden meal I see you lot consume when I go back for visits to relatives.
Anyway, the new WRX and STI are selling so well here, there's a 3 month wait. So I'll be ordering mine in February for May delivery. We don't have draconian laws on road tax by grams of CO2 per mile, so aren't reduced to pootling about in diesels. Thank Goodness. Every time I visit the UK, my eyelids swell up from the pollution.
chignectohead said:
I suppose we could at least expect the author of the review, one Dan Trent, to not make a silly mistake of fact. But he did, and in all the general blathering that followed, nobody corrected him, so I shall.
The STI does NOT have a viscous limited slip unit around the centre differential. It never has. It uses a cam and pawl arrangement for the limited slip function, and that is squeezed by an electronically controlled clutch to modify the torque split going to the front and rear axles.
If we're talking about silly mistakes of fact... The STI does NOT have a viscous limited slip unit around the centre differential. It never has. It uses a cam and pawl arrangement for the limited slip function, and that is squeezed by an electronically controlled clutch to modify the torque split going to the front and rear axles.
In the past (before about 2005) the STi had the viscous centre diff like the WRX, and only the more special versions (Type-R, RA etc) had DCCD.
Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 16th November 05:26
chignectohead said:
The S3 begins at $46K with the poverty spec, and costs over $55K for a nice one.
The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3. In Canada there's a large price differential (I'd assume due to differences in Import and transportation costs)The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy
So whilst the STI looks like a great, much cheaper alternative to you, its exactly the same price as the S3 in the UK.
It is quite an interesting proposition, although IMO the WRX should be the STI that they've released (300hp) and the STI should have 400hp+
StottyEvo said:
chignectohead said:
The S3 begins at $46K with the poverty spec, and costs over $55K for a nice one.
The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3. In Canada there's a large price differential (I'd assume due to differences in Import and transportation costs)The base STI costs $38K, but has enough gizmos to satisfy
I wonder if the difference is mostly in shipping costs and different markups, or whether the European manufacturers are advantaged/subsidised by EU tax rules etc?
Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 16th November 11:23
StottyEvo said:
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3
How do you work that out?STi 29k
http://subaru.co.uk/vehicles/wrx-sti/4-door/
S3 saloon 33.5k in basic trim
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/s3....
In reality by the time you've spec'd the S3 to anywhere near the Sti and got a discount from Subaru you would be looking at a 8k plus price difference.
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3
How do you work that out?STi 29k
http://subaru.co.uk/vehicles/wrx-sti/4-door/
S3 saloon 33.5k in basic trim
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/s3....
In reality by the time you've spec'd the S3 to anywhere near the Sti and got a discount from Subaru you would be looking at a 8k plus price difference.
StottyEvo said:
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3
How do you work that out?STi 29k
http://subaru.co.uk/vehicles/wrx-sti/4-door/
S3 saloon 33.5k in basic trim
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/s3....
In reality by the time you've spec'd the S3 to anywhere near the Sti and got a discount from Subaru you would be looking at a 8k plus price difference.
for a 3 door hatch, the saloon is the comparable car.
chignectohead said:
As for the armchair warriors here opining on this and that, making the usual quips about fat Americans
chignectohead said:
Not only that, the car is a bit small
Q.E.D.Okay so you're Canadian, and the "fat Americans" reference is a crude jibe, but it's fair to say that North Americans typically like their cars larger than Brits do - a function if not of their own size than of the size of the roads.
For a lot of Brits, the fact that the WRX STi is large car is not a good thing.
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3
How do you work that out?STi 29k
http://subaru.co.uk/vehicles/wrx-sti/4-door/
S3 saloon 33.5k in basic trim
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/s3....
In reality by the time you've spec'd the S3 to anywhere near the Sti and got a discount from Subaru you would be looking at a 8k plus price difference.
for a 3 door hatch, the saloon is the comparable car.
StottyEvo said:
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3
How do you work that out?STi 29k
http://subaru.co.uk/vehicles/wrx-sti/4-door/
S3 saloon 33.5k in basic trim
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/s3....
In reality by the time you've spec'd the S3 to anywhere near the Sti and got a discount from Subaru you would be looking at a 8k plus price difference.
for a 3 door hatch, the saloon is the comparable car.
StottyEvo said:
Everything comes down to price, the S3 hatch is comparable to the Impreza STI as its a very similar price. A lot of people would rather have the S3 hatch over the STI despite it being a saloon. Stop being so obtuse.
I'm not being obtuse, they have a direct competitor priced 4k higher, you choose to compare a different, cheaper model to validate your point. The Audi is not the same price and it comes with nothing as standard.Ved said:
He's being accurate. Someone wanting a saloon won't buy a hatchback.
Unfortunately for Subaru, I think most UK punters prefer a hatch. - If they'd have tried a bit harder with their last one, I think they'd have done much better here sales-wise...however, I think it's a case of the UK/European market having to take what we're given by Subaru. They probably look on us as a lost cause - a market full of diesel-loving eco-bores.Ved said:
StottyEvo said:
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
Dagnut said:
StottyEvo said:
That probably explains it, in the UK the STI costs the same as the S3
How do you work that out?STi 29k
http://subaru.co.uk/vehicles/wrx-sti/4-door/
S3 saloon 33.5k in basic trim
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/s3....
In reality by the time you've spec'd the S3 to anywhere near the Sti and got a discount from Subaru you would be looking at a 8k plus price difference.
for a 3 door hatch, the saloon is the comparable car.
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