RE: Datsun 240Z V8: You Know You Want To
Discussion
900T-R said:
Mine makes 300 hp @ 6,000 rpm from a small valve 4.3 litre. Given that the thing weighs about the same as the average iron blocked 4-banger and generally fits in the same space as one, too, I'd call that pretty good going - how much power exactly would you want in an old school motor weighing <1,100 kg?
My money would go on an LS conversion... Marginally heavier than the rover v8 but far more power, more reliable and uses less fuel as well.
Once they started boring out the rover V8 past 3.5 litres they became problematic i.e slipped liners, porous blocks etc
The Rover V8 also eats camshafts and wears like no tomorrow... it really is an old school engine.
skyrover said:
My money would go on an LS conversion...
Marginally heavier than the rover v8 but far more power, more reliable and uses less fuel as well.
Once they started boring out the rover V8 past 3.5 litres they became problematic i.e slipped liners, porous blocks etc
The Rover V8 also eats camshafts and wears like no tomorrow... it really is an old school engine.
Thing is you don't want 'far more power' than 300 bhp in a 1970 Datsun. I'd wager to guess it'd be a bit of a handful at the 215 or so (and more to the point, the wall of low/midrange torque) a TVR 4.0 can muster.Marginally heavier than the rover v8 but far more power, more reliable and uses less fuel as well.
Once they started boring out the rover V8 past 3.5 litres they became problematic i.e slipped liners, porous blocks etc
The Rover V8 also eats camshafts and wears like no tomorrow... it really is an old school engine.
Yes, you can make a car worse by installing a 'better' engine...
4.0 Chimaera engines have always been pretty much bulletproof - relieved from the task of pulling two tons worth of Range Rover along... At some point (start looking after 100,000 kms or so on a well maintained engine) you slap in a new cam and followers... big deal.
skyrover said:
it really is an old school engine.
First made by Buick in 1959 and apart from the bore sizes very little differences over the years. Comparing it to the Lotus headed Chevy small block is like comparing a 7-11 Crossflow to a YB. "Boat anchor"???
Depending on the size of the boat it may not be heavy enough but that's a very "Clarkson" thing to say. The Rover V8 is a capable lump, not by today's standards but what sixty-something year old engine is?
I'd stay "J-Tuner" as modified Datsun's are only now poking their heads into the modified classic market. Lexus LS440 with a six speed Supra box and a couple of turbos. The LS400/LS440 is the modern day version of the Rover V8. Aluminium, millions of them in scrap yards and with the right parts they have serious potential.
Just a shame you have to have a stand alone ECU to bypass all the slush box guff.
900T-R said:
Thing is you don't want 'far more power' than 300 bhp in a 1970 Datsun. I'd wager to guess it'd be a bit of a handful at the 215 or so (and more to the point, the wall of low/midrange torque) a TVR 4.0 can muster.
Yes, you can make a car worse by installing a 'better' engine...
4.0 Chimaera engines have always been pretty much bulletproof - relieved from the task of pulling two tons worth of Range Rover along... At some point (start looking after 100,000 kms or so on a well maintained engine) you slap in a new cam and followers... big deal.
300hp for a rover v8 is pushing the limit of what the engine is capable of. Longevity suffers accordingly.Yes, you can make a car worse by installing a 'better' engine...
4.0 Chimaera engines have always been pretty much bulletproof - relieved from the task of pulling two tons worth of Range Rover along... At some point (start looking after 100,000 kms or so on a well maintained engine) you slap in a new cam and followers... big deal.
300hp for the LS1 is an unstressed baseline.
I want 300 reliable horses thank you very much
Liquid Knight said:
I'd stay "J-Tuner" as modified Datsun's are only now poking their heads into the modified classic market. Lexus LS440 with a six speed Supra box and a couple of turbos. The LS400/LS440 is the modern day version of the Rover V8. Aluminium, millions of them in scrap yards and with the right parts they have serious potential.
Just a shame you have to have a stand alone ECU to bypass all the slush box guff.
I love the 1UZ... fantastic motor.Just a shame you have to have a stand alone ECU to bypass all the slush box guff.
Only one problem with it... it's physically massive
skyrover said:
300hp for a rover v8 is pushing the limit of what the engine is capable of. Longevity suffers accordingly.
Ballcocks. The engine I have right now will probably outlive me save from a cam change in 10 years or so (yes, the man who built it was a walking disaster zone in business terms but he sure knew how to build a bulletproof engine)... it's got standard sized valves any hydraulic lifters FFS.A 300 bhp LSx however... you may find one in a truck.
400 is where it normally starts, which is a tad over the edge for a 40 year old classic. You might want to go the whole hog and design a 21st century chassis to go with your engine... 
skyrover said:
Liquid Knight said:
I'd stay "J-Tuner" as modified Datsun's are only now poking their heads into the modified classic market. Lexus LS440 with a six speed Supra box and a couple of turbos. The LS400/LS440 is the modern day version of the Rover V8. Aluminium, millions of them in scrap yards and with the right parts they have serious potential.
Just a shame you have to have a stand alone ECU to bypass all the slush box guff.
I love the 1UZ... fantastic motor.Just a shame you have to have a stand alone ECU to bypass all the slush box guff.
Only one problem with it... it's physically massive
http://forum.ppcmag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=...
Liquid Knight said:
Plenty of room. My mate's sticking a twin turbo one into a T Bucket.
http://forum.ppcmag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=...
oh that's fantastic... thanks for sharing that http://forum.ppcmag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=...
and here's me wondering how to squeeze one under the bonnet of my land rover
skyrover said:
Liquid Knight said:
Plenty of room. My mate's sticking a twin turbo one into a T Bucket.
http://forum.ppcmag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=...
oh that's fantastic... thanks for sharing that http://forum.ppcmag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=...
and here's me wondering how to squeeze one under the bonnet of my land rover
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxRgPWPjGw
Rover V8s are bloody brilliant motors. I loved mine and the gurgling, chuntering 'little V8' noise it made at idle and the way it turned to a fairly purposeful roar when pressing on. Then my exhaust fell off early one Sunday morning...
BTW RPI in Norwich supply Rover V8s for special applications, anything from original 3528cc displacement up to 5.5 litres. Spare parts are not a problem, the engines are compact, light and tunable and reliability should be very good. Mine never let me down, certainly, and that was an original '73 on twin SU carbs.
LS engines give you a higher baseline in power and displacement, and can be tuned to well beyond anything you could possibly use on public roads on stock internals. They are that bit bulkier, though.
BTW RPI in Norwich supply Rover V8s for special applications, anything from original 3528cc displacement up to 5.5 litres. Spare parts are not a problem, the engines are compact, light and tunable and reliability should be very good. Mine never let me down, certainly, and that was an original '73 on twin SU carbs.
LS engines give you a higher baseline in power and displacement, and can be tuned to well beyond anything you could possibly use on public roads on stock internals. They are that bit bulkier, though.
The Rover V8 is without doubt the best sounding V8 ever, although a BB Chevy V8 would be a close second. Anyway, I have an LSA/LS9 hybrid in my car making over 800hp and the LSX iron block will make approaching 2000hp with turbos. The difference being, development of the RV8 stopped in the mid 50s while Chevy's 4" blocks have continued to evolve. LS3 is probably the best "traditional" V8 on sale today.
wormus said:
development of the RV8 stopped in the mid 50s
Who told you that? Even at Buick and Oldsmobile, it didn't appear until 1961. Then Rover massively re-engineered it in '66-67. The 3.9 didn't arrive until about 1990, the 4.6 about 1994, TVR mucked about with it through the 90s and development work has continued ever since at RPI in Norwich.RoverP6B said:
Who told you that? Even at Buick and Oldsmobile, it didn't appear until 1961. Then Rover massively re-engineered it in '66-67. The 3.9 didn't arrive until about 1990, the 4.6 about 1994, TVR mucked about with it through the 90s and development work has continued ever since at RPI in Norwich.
My understanding is Rover bought the designs from Buick and whilst they may have redesigned it in '67, that still makes it almost 50 years old. 3.9, 4.3, 5.0 etc was about enlarging the bores or increasing stroke and hardly counts as development. On the other hand, each new generation of the LSx has made more power without using more fuel.Not meaning to bash the Rover V8, I had one in my SD1 and loved it. My brother has a 4.3 Griffith and I love that. It's just that the world has moved on.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 18th April 09:04
RoverP6B said:
Who told you that? Even at Buick and Oldsmobile, it didn't appear until 1961. Then Rover massively re-engineered it in '66-67.
Not they didn't.. you can still fit Buick parts onto the modern rover.In fact swapping rover heads onto the Buick block is quite a common mod in the USA
wormus said:
It's just that the world has moved on.
]
That, of course, also can be said for this particular base car. ]
The point I think is that when swapping any production engine of significantly greater power into a classic car, the reliability and durability of that engine will surely be the least of your concerns.
Another thing is that any issues on a classic engine that's been around for this long in so many vehicles right up to the early 2000s is that any issues by now are well understood and documented, and aftermarket improvements widely available. I'm sure in 20 years time some 'common' issues on LS engines will be widely published all over the web. For starters, I understand the OE pistons don't have a lot of leeway in them to cope with more power or variations in running conditions - which can become an issue when you are engineering cooling, fuel and oil systems from scratch for a 'new' application and even more if running on aftermarket systems without the safeguards of the OEM mapping...
900T-R said:
I'm sure in 20 years time some 'common' issues on LS engines will be widely published all over the web. For starters, I understand the OE pistons don't have a lot of leeway in them to cope with more power or variations in running conditions
The gen 3 LS1 came out about 20 years ago and then came the LS2, LS3, supercharged variants like LSA and LS9. GMPP also do the LSX iron block for the drag racing scene.There are plenty of supercharged LS2s on OE internals making in excess of 600hp which is 200hp up from stock. Very strong, tunable engines.
skyrover said:
Not they didn't.. you can still fit Buick parts onto the modern rover.
In fact swapping rover heads onto the Buick block is quite a common mod in the USA
Just because the bolt patterns are the same doesn't mean they didn't change anything. The casting was changed from die to sand, for starters, and the heads were modified. Why do the Yanks put Rover heads on Buicks? Because the Rover heads are superior.In fact swapping rover heads onto the Buick block is quite a common mod in the USA
Worth mentioning also that the Rover V8 got EFI in the 80s, so that also counts as development. The TVR versions had bigger valves IIRC.
stephen300o said:
No one looks to England for a v8, they go get a proper one.
What do you mean? We've made quite a few legendary V8s...RoverP6B said:
skyrover said:
Not they didn't.. you can still fit Buick parts onto the modern rover.
In fact swapping rover heads onto the Buick block is quite a common mod in the USA
Just because the bolt patterns are the same doesn't mean they didn't change anything. The casting was changed from die to sand, for starters, and the heads were modified. Why do the Yanks put Rover heads on Buicks? Because the Rover heads are superior.In fact swapping rover heads onto the Buick block is quite a common mod in the USA
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