RE: Audi S3 revelation: PH Blog
Discussion
Chris Harris said:
You seem to forget that most people are terrified of using an E46 M3 for circa 20k miles a year. Equally, I had an E92 M3 at the same time as the S3, the back-to-back comparison didn't do the Bimmer any favours.
Do tell. 
Chris Harris said:
The new v used argument only works if you're willing to underwrite out-of-warranty. As a man who's about to pay for an S4 DSG gearbox, I feel qualified to say that.
That makes sense but unless we're talking CSLs, E46 M3s are bloody good value now. - The most expensive in the PH Classifieds are around £18k, which leaves a considerable amount (say you were going to spend £35k on an S3) to put into savings. Then factor in depreciation on the new car, My local dealer is surprisingly cheap (they now offer their value services on E46 / E39 Ms) and I work just down the road from a very good specialist...uh oh...I'm thinking down those lines again! 
Chris Harris said:
You seem to forget that most people are terrified of using an E46 M3 for circa 20k miles a year. Equally, I had an E92 M3 at the same time as the S3, the back-to-back comparison didn't do the Bimmer any favours.
The new v used argument only works if you're willing to underwrite out-of-warranty. As a man who's about to pay for an S4 DSG gearbox, I feel qualified to say that.
The Autocar video`s you did on your E92 M3 inspired me to lust after and eventually buy my old E92 M3 and it had to be White like yours too. The new v used argument only works if you're willing to underwrite out-of-warranty. As a man who's about to pay for an S4 DSG gearbox, I feel qualified to say that.
Sorry if I sound like a weird stalker!
Also watched your Drivers Republic review of the TTS before we purchased that and with the TTS we actually ended up preferring that to the E92 M3 which in itself sounds a little crazy I must admit.
bodhi said:
I mean look at BMW - well known for producing amongst the best everyday cars to drive, and they almost all start with the engine in the front behind the axle, and the drive going to the back.
That's not correct regarding the position of the engine, not many BMWs have the engine entirely behind the front axle most are 1/2 and 1/2 or if you're lucky maybe 2/3rds behind it.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The car that best meets a host of needs as opposed to what is likely a slightly to very selfish one. That may not be the fastest or most exciting steer, but for most people, needs must. Real life 2 - 1 Evo.Presumably, a fair chunk of the market for the S3 need one practical, relatively cheap to run, quick, generally reliable car (and so on). They can't fund a 3rd car and the budget for the main one comes from someone else & fairly often comes with caveats on age and the like.
Several Porsches in that bracket, but they merely serve to prove both your point and Monkey's - much, much more involving, but you either have to warranty the car, or be prepared for potentially huge bills.
Ultimately I was faced with a similar choice, and ended up going the third route and leasing a Golf R, which hopefully leaves enough in reserve to buy an Elise next year, but if the Elise proves to be too expensive, I'm hoping the Golf will be entertaining enough. Time will tell.
Ultimately I was faced with a similar choice, and ended up going the third route and leasing a Golf R, which hopefully leaves enough in reserve to buy an Elise next year, but if the Elise proves to be too expensive, I'm hoping the Golf will be entertaining enough. Time will tell.
Actus Reus said:
Several Porsches in that bracket, but they merely serve to prove both your point and Monkey's - much, much more involving, but you either have to warranty the car, or be prepared for potentially huge bills.
Ultimately I was faced with a similar choice, and ended up going the third route and leasing a Golf R, which hopefully leaves enough in reserve to buy an Elise next year, but if the Elise proves to be too expensive, I'm hoping the Golf will be entertaining enough. Time will tell.
Plus the S3 can also carry the kids and a whole bunch of luggage. Comparing sports cars and family cars only works if you're not lugging the family around. Ultimately I was faced with a similar choice, and ended up going the third route and leasing a Golf R, which hopefully leaves enough in reserve to buy an Elise next year, but if the Elise proves to be too expensive, I'm hoping the Golf will be entertaining enough. Time will tell.
I've gone for the R too. If it's any good I'll hang onto it. I've owned both of my current cars, from new, for over a decade. Yes, I paid full whack, but they've cost me a lot less than leasing would have, and I know exactly how badly they've been treated.
Here's the article I was looking for earlier (thanks Dan!):
PH Blog: Passive / Aggressive
I don't need that rubbish on a performance car.
PH Blog: Passive / Aggressive
Dan Trent said:
...it was explained to me by one that in at least one case - brand not disclosed, sadly - hitting the sport button initiated a 'hard' feel to appease the customer's demand for a sportier sensation, before the damping settings slowly relaxed back to the 'correct' one.
I don't need that rubbish on a performance car.I think people are getting wrapped up with handling and drivetrain layouts here.
When you are on your own in your car (with it's non electric rack, rear wheel drive, mid engined chassis for example)
You can revel in it's crisp balance and feelsome steering...right up until the point where you get thumped
On your local, slightly damp A road by mid range sport hatch.
When Chris says the Audi didn't do the Bmw any favours we are talking about a hatchback
That probably runs 12-13 sec to 100mph and 30-70 in mid to low 4's.
No matter how well you drive that M3 you'll probably still have an S3 stuck to your a*se.
Most of my Nephew's pals have 2-300hp hatchbacks now days and most will run my old M5
Uncomfortably close all the way to 120+
Nearly all of them are VAG products...
I would never swap my old Beemer with it's beautiful big six for anything.
But steering feel never won me any races !
When you are on your own in your car (with it's non electric rack, rear wheel drive, mid engined chassis for example)
You can revel in it's crisp balance and feelsome steering...right up until the point where you get thumped
On your local, slightly damp A road by mid range sport hatch.
When Chris says the Audi didn't do the Bmw any favours we are talking about a hatchback
That probably runs 12-13 sec to 100mph and 30-70 in mid to low 4's.
No matter how well you drive that M3 you'll probably still have an S3 stuck to your a*se.
Most of my Nephew's pals have 2-300hp hatchbacks now days and most will run my old M5
Uncomfortably close all the way to 120+
Nearly all of them are VAG products...
I would never swap my old Beemer with it's beautiful big six for anything.
But steering feel never won me any races !
3795mpower said:
I think people are getting wrapped up with handling and drivetrain layouts here.
When you are on your own in your car (with it's non electric rack, rear wheel drive, mid engined chassis for example)
You can revel in it's crisp balance and feelsome steering...right up until the point where you get thumped
On your local, slightly damp A road by mid range sport hatch.
When Chris says the Audi didn't do the Bmw any favours we are talking about a hatchback
That probably runs 12-13 sec to 100mph and 30-70 in mid to low 4's.
No matter how well you drive that M3 you'll probably still have an S3 stuck to your a*se.
Most of my Nephew's pals have 2-300hp hatchbacks now days and most will run my old M5
Uncomfortably close all the way to 120+
Nearly all of them are VAG products...
I would never swap my old Beemer with it's beautiful big six for anything.
But steering feel never won me any races !
Well this is the thing: Are the cars you mention road or racing cars? If the latter, they're all useless and you can do much better for £30k. If they're the former, surely it's about a blend of enjoyment, practicality, comfort, costs, performance etc. etc.?When you are on your own in your car (with it's non electric rack, rear wheel drive, mid engined chassis for example)
You can revel in it's crisp balance and feelsome steering...right up until the point where you get thumped
On your local, slightly damp A road by mid range sport hatch.
When Chris says the Audi didn't do the Bmw any favours we are talking about a hatchback
That probably runs 12-13 sec to 100mph and 30-70 in mid to low 4's.
No matter how well you drive that M3 you'll probably still have an S3 stuck to your a*se.
Most of my Nephew's pals have 2-300hp hatchbacks now days and most will run my old M5
Uncomfortably close all the way to 120+
Nearly all of them are VAG products...
I would never swap my old Beemer with it's beautiful big six for anything.
But steering feel never won me any races !
The S3, Golf R etc. could have 400 BHP but I'd still prefer the M135i (or your car) for it's character alone. The Golf R would trounce a 250 GTO, Miura or Carrera 2.7 RS on most tracks but as you know, speed isn't all that matters.
Clivey said:
Scherzkeks, if I ever meet you I'll buy you a drink. I don't suppose you'll be at Le Mans this year?
Clive I don't think motorsport is his thing. He's only discovered track driving last tuesday. I keep inviting him at the Ring for a chat and a couple of laps but he keeps ignoring me... I am there early May btw, Scherzkeks. Will you be there or are you revising the Haldex technical documentation ;-) ?Oh btw, last time I checked, at least 2/3 rds of my N52 engine were behind the front axle so tarring all hatches with the same brush is not exactly fair...
Lucas Ayde said:
The next-gen TTS looks like it could well be pretty awesome. A spec of 0-62 in 4.7s (that's presumably with the standard manual box, optional S-Tronic should be quicker) and likely improved handling over its S3/Golf R cousins (lighter and lower than both) should make for a seriously potent car. Seriously expensive too though, no doubt.
Won't be available until Q1 2015 though and still nothing close to a real world road-test of any new Mk3 TT to go on so far.
I have an M235i on order (needed to get out of my auto Z4 on 19" RFT before I lost the will to live and set light to it) but have enquired about the new TT having owned an absolutely brilliant FWD 2.0TFSI S line before.Won't be available until Q1 2015 though and still nothing close to a real world road-test of any new Mk3 TT to go on so far.
I think the recipe for the new non S/RS model TT looks brilliant. Lower weight, 230bhp ish TFSI engine and if they put the diff in from the latest Golf GTI it could be a real winner that is fun without having to do break next speeds the whole time.
I don't track my cars and just want something that is fun to hustle along. I loved that my old TT scrambled for grip at time, it made getting the performance out of it a challenge and fun. The interior on the new TT also looks interesting. Can't wait.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
True, but if I personally chose to go that route, I would just add a real sports car rather than a performance sedan like an M3, which suffers from the same compromises as any other performance sedan and doesn't offer the practicality of a wagon or Sportback/large hatch-type vehicle. So if one wants to have it all in one package, there isn't much choice.scherzkeks said:
True, but if I personally chose to go that route, I would just add a real sports car rather than a performance sedan like an M3, which suffers from the same compromises as any other performance sedan and doesn't offer the practicality of a wagon or Sportback/large hatch-type vehicle. So if one wants to have it all in one package, there isn't much choice.
Don't the seats in the E46 fold flat, certainly would give a decent load space, in some ways more useful that the S3. I don't understand people who come out with this sort of thing. You are hardly likely to be using a new S3 for taking a bunch of builders rubble to the tip!yonex said:
Don't the seats in the E46 fold flat, certainly would give a decent load space, in some ways more useful that the S3. I don't understand people who come out with this sort of thing. You are hardly likely to be using a new S3 for taking a bunch of builders rubble to the tip!
agreed. My TT coupe was practical enough, seats folded flat and was a decent hatch. Could get a mounting bike and golf clubs in there at the same time, what more do you need 
Unless you get an estate the only practicality you gain from a hatch is extra doors if you spec them.
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