RE: Audi S3 revelation: PH Blog
Discussion
I drove the S3 saloon last month. Great car all round and agree with Chris generally but I couldn't live with the steering. It's just too wooden. Surprises me that he dealt with that in such an off the cuff manner when he goes on and on about the Boxster's (and other Porsches) electric steering being 'the weak link'.
Not quite the same, but closely related cars and thus relevant. Have been running a (now last-gen) TTS for the past year, think it is very very good. With the standard magride it is supple, fast as you'd ever honestly need for overtaking, (subjectively) looks more interesting than a box-hatch shape, and has a lovely interior.
Previously owned a Cayman and out of the say 15hrs a week I spend in the car, I'd chose the TTS for 14.5 of them.
Glad the new gen of S3 is a good car, hope it spreads awareness that despite the hate there are still some very good Audi models around. I look forward to the next-gen TTS tests.
Previously owned a Cayman and out of the say 15hrs a week I spend in the car, I'd chose the TTS for 14.5 of them.
Glad the new gen of S3 is a good car, hope it spreads awareness that despite the hate there are still some very good Audi models around. I look forward to the next-gen TTS tests.
Vladimir said:
But with everyone "having" to use electric assisted steering, "feel" is a thing of the past.
My BM has none but luckily it's a quick and responsive rack.
Electric power steering being a poor substitute is a myth perpetuated by those who think about it far too much. Current Boxster, Cayman, 911 are all epic steerers. BRZ - best cheapish drivers car - has electric steering. Go figureMy BM has none but luckily it's a quick and responsive rack.
mattberkshire said:
Electric power steering being a poor substitute is a myth perpetuated by those who think about it far too much. Current Boxster, Cayman, 911 are all epic steerers. BRZ - best cheapish drivers car - has electric steering. Go figure
I don't think so - my 335d had no electric assistance and had feedback; it was heavy (many say too heavy) but I did like to know what the wheels where doing. The M135i has electric assistance and at first it put me off getting one; I tried one and my initial thoughts weren't good - at low speeds it's very light. But speed up and it's fine - I don't even notice it any more and it's nice and quick (2 turns lock to lock). It's a "big issue" that is now a non issue.Not tried the latest Porsches but I imagine they probably get it right.
mattberkshire said:
Electric power steering being a poor substitute is a myth perpetuated by those who think about it far too much.
I guess you have never driven a current Astra then. The car is far better than the previous model except for one thing, the steering. It's like driving with oven mittens on.So you will say, but I am talking about sport cars here, but it's still oven mittens that have been "developed" to not be as bad.
Of course, the rot set in when power assisted steering came in in the first place. We traded off feel for being able to turn larger and larger tyre widths. Now we are making a compromise again but for another reason, the reason being it is cheaper ( no not that it saves a bit of petrol) for the manufacturer.
Gandahar said:
I guess you have never driven a current Astra then. The car is far better than the previous model except for one thing, the steering. It's like driving with oven mittens on.
So you will say, but I am talking about sport cars here, but it's still oven mittens that have been "developed" to not be as bad.
Of course, the rot set in when power assisted steering came in in the first place. We traded off feel for being able to turn larger and larger tyre widths. Now we are making a compromise again but for another reason, the reason being it is cheaper ( no not that it saves a bit of petrol) for the manufacturer.
Drove a an Astra VXR for a week. Steering was fine, in fact it was great. Ride was too brittle and visibility awful due to twin A-pillars but otherwise excellent carSo you will say, but I am talking about sport cars here, but it's still oven mittens that have been "developed" to not be as bad.
Of course, the rot set in when power assisted steering came in in the first place. We traded off feel for being able to turn larger and larger tyre widths. Now we are making a compromise again but for another reason, the reason being it is cheaper ( no not that it saves a bit of petrol) for the manufacturer.
mattberkshire said:
Electric power steering being a poor substitute is a myth perpetuated by those who think about it far too much.
Current Boxster, Cayman, 911 are all epic steerers. BRZ - best cheapish drivers car - has electric steering. Go figure
Current Boxster, Cayman, 911 are all epic steerers. BRZ - best cheapish drivers car - has electric steering. Go figure
Most electric steering systems are a poor substitute in terms of feel and are only fitted for economy / CO2 reasons. It's funny you should mention Porsche as the electric steering on both the 981 Boxster and 991 have been widely criticised. They supposedly have it sussed with the GT3 though so hopefully that can filter down to the "regular" cars and it finally can be a non-issue.Clivey said:
Most electric steering systems are a poor substitute in terms of feel and are only fitted for economy / CO2 reasons. It's funny you should mention Porsche as the electric steering on both the 981 Boxster and 991 have been widely criticised. They supposedly have it sussed with the GT3 though so hopefully that can filter down to the "regular" cars and it finally can be a non-issue.leedsutd1 said:
how much does this A3 cost and how much is the bmw and golf mentioned,i honestly have no idea.?
S3 is £30,640 for the basic 3 door manual.Golf R is £29,900 for the basic 3 door manual.
BMW M135i is £30,835 for the basic 3 door manual.
So all pretty similar. I think the discounts are somewhat better on the BMW so it's effectively a little cheaper than the others to buy.
On paper this and the Golf R (even a mk6) sound like my sort of bag. But then I look at pictures or in person and I think "meh", not sure why, they just don't make me want to get in and drive it. The new Leon too. They're an accountant that eats their ham sandwich at precisely 12:15 every day and lives it up by mowing the grass on the weekend without doing the edges.
Far as the competition goes, the astra is too wide and has stupidly big wheels, the ST is fugly and the least powerful, M135i looks inside and out don't appeal, A45 needs a 3 door and its pricey, Mazda 3 MPS has gone. All are laden with gadgets and toys that are just a liability.
Its weird, more cars around than ever and I've never been so disenchanted. Maybe prices in a year or two will change my mind...
Far as the competition goes, the astra is too wide and has stupidly big wheels, the ST is fugly and the least powerful, M135i looks inside and out don't appeal, A45 needs a 3 door and its pricey, Mazda 3 MPS has gone. All are laden with gadgets and toys that are just a liability.
Its weird, more cars around than ever and I've never been so disenchanted. Maybe prices in a year or two will change my mind...
FisiP1 said:
Not quite the same, but closely related cars and thus relevant. Have been running a (now last-gen) TTS for the past year, think it is very very good. With the standard magride it is supple, fast as you'd ever honestly need for overtaking, (subjectively) looks more interesting than a box-hatch shape, and has a lovely interior.
Previously owned a Cayman and out of the say 15hrs a week I spend in the car, I'd chose the TTS for 14.5 of them.
Glad the new gen of S3 is a good car, hope it spreads awareness that despite the hate there are still some very good Audi models around. I look forward to the next-gen TTS tests.
Nice to hear some positivity for the TTS ours has done just over 50k miles now in 21 months and we purchased it from new, at first I wasn't very keen on it and I hated the light electric steering and I wasn't entirely sure about its capabilities but over time its hit the spot for sure and my missus loves it. Previously owned a Cayman and out of the say 15hrs a week I spend in the car, I'd chose the TTS for 14.5 of them.
Glad the new gen of S3 is a good car, hope it spreads awareness that despite the hate there are still some very good Audi models around. I look forward to the next-gen TTS tests.
The MK3 TTS is now a serious consideration as its replacement and I never thought that would be the case seems the future is looking bright.
mattberkshire said:
Is this based on experience or what journalists tell you?
Both. 
One of the reasons I prefer the E46 3-Series over the newer models is the steering. Same with BMW Minis (R53 is better than the R56 - we've had 2 of the former and 3 of the latter in the family) and plenty of others. Not all electric steering is terrible - it can suit a car's character. I liked the systems in the Citroen C4, C6 and Jaguar XF but all of the standout cars I've driven have had feelsome hydraulic systems.
Clivey said:
Both.
One of the reasons I prefer the E46 3-Series over the newer models is the steering. Same with BMW Minis (R53 is better than the R56 - we've had 2 of the former and 3 of the latter in the family) and plenty of others. Not all electric steering is terrible - it can suit a car's character. I liked the systems in the Citroen C4, C6 and Jaguar XF but all of the standout cars I've driven have had feelsome hydraulic systems.
OK. I'd agree to disagree. Have driven hydraulic Cayman R, Boxster S, 911 C2 amongst others and electric Boxster S, Cayman, 911 C2 and 911 Turbo and honestly the steering in the newer cars is no worse. My experience tells me something Public Enemy said - Don't believe the hypeOne of the reasons I prefer the E46 3-Series over the newer models is the steering. Same with BMW Minis (R53 is better than the R56 - we've had 2 of the former and 3 of the latter in the family) and plenty of others. Not all electric steering is terrible - it can suit a car's character. I liked the systems in the Citroen C4, C6 and Jaguar XF but all of the standout cars I've driven have had feelsome hydraulic systems.
These are all good cars, but the 4WD adds a lot of weight. Same in 2003 when I bought a Leon Cupra R over the Audi S3 with same engine but 4WD.
This is a link to a recent track test of the Cupra 280 vs Golf R. The extra weight shows on the Golf if you watch it through the bends.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/86378...
This is a link to a recent track test of the Cupra 280 vs Golf R. The extra weight shows on the Golf if you watch it through the bends.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/86378...
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