Cycle races on dual carriageways !

[Johnnytheboy]

I'm not really interested in whether you're allowed to race your bicycle on a dual carriageway, but I am curious as to why you'd want to.

[anonymous-user]

So what?

It's not exactly difficult to navigate them is it?

Without reading every post I am pretty sure the usual comments will be rolled out here. Always makes me laugh that people who post on a motoring forum, and who regard themselves as half decent drivers would fall over with this simple issue.

[Garybee]

It's a bit counter intuitive but riding on dual carriageways is in some ways safer than riding on small country lanes. The difference in speed differential (10mph) really isn't that great. Nobody pulls out of a minor road directly into your path or just plain into the side of you. The roads are straighter so you are visible for longer. Nobody overtakes you (or almost does) then immediately brakes and turns left onto a minor road. On a single carriageway, cars often overtake those travelling the opposite direction as they are level with you (closing speed here is theirs + yours, much worse than on a dual carriageway) leaving you nowhere to go. Dual carriageways actually reduce the opportunities for inattentive/bad drivers to kill you, even though it doesn't look or feel safe at first glance.

[Highway Star]

dxg said:

Thank you for your concern. I shall rush out and fit one toot sweet.

Not a problem. Given you seemingly have a problem negotiating cyclists, you might do well to stick one on board, lest there are any further 'differences of opinion'.

Oh, it's 'tout suite' or actually 'tout de suite', if you are trying to do a patronising putdown.

[Patrick Bateman]

Cyclists are softer than my car so it's a moot point.

[DrDoofenshmirtz]

Tjis is becoming more common...the worst thing is when the marshals police roundabouts so they can carry on racing without worrying about other traffic. They are a weekend menace.

[billywhizzzzzz]

JDMDrifter said:

Hi all,

Bit of a rant and a general question really.

Yesterday I was driving from derby to stoke along the A50, for those of you who don't know this road its very fast and features many HGVs using it. So as I'm driving I'm noticing the signs for the cycle face and Marshall's stood around, joyous .

As I go to pull onto the A50 I meet the first cyclist, in the middle of the slip road entering at a slow speed, this slowing me up and a line of cars behind me. He doesn't move over and insist on taking up all road until we join, I overtake and carry on. Further up the road I see a steady stream of them, now this is just plain dangerous as they are taking up lanes thus causing HGVs to swerve quite erratically into Lane 2 causing faster moving traffic to slow down very quickly. This carries on for 5-10 miles and I also witness a cyclist swerving around causing the car behind to take evasive action whilst trying to overtake.

My question really is why is this allowed on such busy/dangerous roads?

Edited by JDMDrifter on Sunday 13th April 15:46

you may want to read the section called 'road bullies' on http://ipayroadtax.com

Because cyclists have so little protection around them, it's up to drivers to ensure their safety on a shared roadway. He has as much right (more, many may say) to use the road than you do. A few pointers, as you obviously don't know:

wiki: 'Bicycle law varies from country to country, but in general, cyclists' right to the road has been enshrined in international law since 1968, with the accession of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. Under that treaty, bicycles have the legal status of vehicles, and cyclists enjoy the legal status of vehicle operators. There are over 150 contracting parties to the treaty, including the United States, Canada, Mexico, the United Kingdom, Ireland, almost all of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and China. In countries that are contracting parties, the treaty has the force of law, and its provisions have been incorporated into national law.'

Bikehub: The majority of adult cyclists own cars. Hence they pay Vehicle Excise Duty, known, inaccurately, as ‘road tax’. Winston Churchill started to abolish this tax in 1926. He didn’t want motorists to think a token payment gave them “ownership” of the road. It was an ex-tax by 1937. ‘Road tax’ doesn’t pay for the roads anyway, general and local taxation does that so even those cyclists without cars still pay for roads. The Road Fund (1910-37) only ever paid for the maintenance of a few ‘national’ roads, never local ones. Paying car tax gives no “right to the road” for motorists (or car-owning cyclists). There’s much more on this subject on iPayRoadTax.com, a campaign to put the record straight on ‘road tax’.

[Pkh72]

MH said:

Pkh72 said:

JDMDrifter said:

Caused abit of a stir here

I appreciate it's their sport and they have the right, but IMO it seems very dangerous. Bare in mind this stretch of road has a very busy lane 2 90% of the time and pulling across to overtake isn't that easy, this combined with poor drivers can only end in tears. I believe it should be banned on this particular stretch of road due to the volume of traffic and the disruption it causes.

Edited by JDMDrifter on Sunday 13th April 19:16

No st Sherlock.

Edited by Pkh72 on Sunday 13th April 20:57

Anyone cycling on the A50 round there is just nuts when there's an airfield just up the road that's used for cycle racing (time trial is still racing).

Oh i agree, i live next to the A50 and cycle a couple of times a week around the country lanes between there and Ashbourne area, i am fully aware of the time trials on the A50 and am in full agreement of the craziness of it.
Whilst it may be legal there is no way you'd catch me cycling down that road, the only time i've done it is when they were building the road and it wasn't open to traffic.


My no st sherlock statement was in general reference to the usual cycling st storm you get on here.

Which airfield are you refering to? Darley Moor?

[anonymous-user]

DrDoofenshmirtz said:

Tjis is becoming more common...the worst thing is when the marshals police roundabouts so they can carry on racing without worrying about other traffic. They are a weekend menace.

The Marshall is there to alert traffic to the dangers not direct anything. People like you are a concern to every cyclist. Intolerant and self righteous. In France they'd have a few people cheering us on rather than a few fat slobs moaning about being held up for 20s of their miserable lives

[Pan Pan]

JDMDrifter said:

xRIEx said:

Just to spin this around, why not ban the poor car drivers (hypothetically, if it were possible)?

As stated before, if a safe driver can negotiate such a hazard.

If we could ban poor drivers I would be all for it!

And also ban poor cyclists. The mode of transport is not really the issue, the
skill (or lack of it) of the person using a particular mode of transport is the important bit.
As a general observation, the majority of cyclists and motorists, do quite well in terms of integration on this tiny island with its overcrowded roads system.
But in all walks of life we get the arrogant, ignorant, selfish individuals who believe somehow, that no matter what the scenario, they have `more' right to do what `they' want to do than those around them.
As I drive and cycle, I can see the point/s of view of both cyclists and vehicle drivers, and that helps me to anticipate what each group is most likely to do in a given situation, (and then do my best to make sure I don't get myself into the same piece of road at the same time) The ones who cause most aggravation, tend to be the car hating cyclist who does not drive, and the cyclist hating driver who does not cycle.

[saaby93]

billywhizzzzzz said:

you may want to read the section called 'road bullies' on http://ipayroadtax.com

Because cyclists have so little protection around them, it's up to drivers to ensure their safety on a shared roadway.

oh come on - where does it say that
It works both ways
If a cyclist (or anyone else) is behaving unsafely, another road user can try to work around that, but at the end of the day it's the responsibility of both to try to ensure each others safety.
That's why pedestrians cyclists horse riders and any other slower road users either keep over to one side or pull over to one side to help anyone else make progress or to help them pass.
If necessary other road users slow down to make sure its safe to pass too ( as we saw in the opening post)
I said before it comes under due care for other road users and courtesy.
It could also comes under rights and responsibilities. We all have the right to use a road. We also have responsibility to help any one else use it.

Edited by saaby93 on Monday 14th April 08:05

[ambuletz]

Amazes me sometimes how people rant about cyclists on the roads. Gurantee that 90% of the time it's the driver not behaving properly around them, grumbling about the fact that they had to slow down to over take them. You never hear people rant about horse riders on public roads do you? Granted they're a much rarer site but still, you'd behave around them in the same way you pretty much would a cyclist.

[saaby93]

ambuletz said:

Amazes me sometimes how people rant about cyclists on the roads. Gurantee that 90% of the time it's the driver not behaving properly around them, grumbling about the fact that they had to slow down to over take them. You never hear people rant about horse riders on public roads do you?

you obviously havent read many forums

ambuletz said:

Granted they're a much rarer site but still, you'd behave around them in the same way you pretty much would a cyclist.

Go on then when have you seen horses racing down lanes of a live dual carriageway?
Come to think of it, if theyre at full tilt it probably wouldnt be too bad

[The Wookie]

ambuletz said:

You never hear people rant about horse riders on public roads do you? Granted they're a much rarer site but still, you'd behave around them in the same way you pretty much would a cyclist.

Are you having a laugh?? 61 months you've been here and you don't think anyone complains about horse riders??

In fact I don't think there's any demographic that doesn't get crabbed about; cyclists, horseriders, bikers, lorry drivers, the old, the young, families, foreigners, taxi drivers, sales reps, van drivers, people who eat, people who smoke, people who wear hats, people who drive too slow, and god fking help you if you're more than two of those combined!

[Pan Pan]

ambuletz said:

Amazes me sometimes how people rant about cyclists on the roads. Gurantee that 90% of the time it's the driver not behaving properly around them, grumbling about the fact that they had to slow down to over take them. You never hear people rant about horse riders on public roads do you? Granted they're a much rarer site but still, you'd behave around them in the same way you pretty much would a cyclist.

ALL road users have to be even more careful around horses, Unlike bicycles which are just a machine, horses can be unpredictable at any time, and in any given situation. Horses don't like being taken by surprise by anything (including a discarded carrier bag blown in the wind) and I have seen them spooked by cyclists and cars alike.
Avoiding this just takes some common sense and anticipation on the part of the vehicle user, regardless of whether the vehicle in question is a bicycle, or a car.

[ambuletz]

[Pan Pan]

Let us just accept that a knob will always be a knob, no matter what form of transport they are using.
The proper thing for every individual to do, is to try their best to avoid being a knob in the first place.

[Pkh72]

The Wookie said:

ambuletz said:

You never hear people rant about horse riders on public roads do you? Granted they're a much rarer site but still, you'd behave around them in the same way you pretty much would a cyclist.

Are you having a laugh?? 61 months you've been here and you don't think anyone complains about horse riders??

In fact I don't think there's any demographic that doesn't get crabbed about; cyclists, horseriders, bikers, lorry drivers, the old, the young, families, foreigners, taxi drivers, sales reps, van drivers, people who eat, people who smoke, people who wear hats, people who drive too slow, and god fking help you if you're more than two of those combined!

[0836whimper]

Pkh72 said:

Oh i agree, i live next to the A50 and cycle a couple of times a week around the country lanes between there and Ashbourne area, i am fully aware of the time trials on the A50 and am in full agreement of the craziness of it.
Whilst it may be legal there is no way you'd catch me cycling down that road, the only time i've done it is when they were building the road and it wasn't open to traffic.


My no st sherlock statement was in general reference to the usual cycling st storm you get on here.

Which airfield are you refering to? Darley Moor?

It's true, I wouldn't ride my bike on there either, but there's still something topsy-turvy about removing the potential victim from the equation, rather than the threat to them.

Some people are blaming the 'racing' as dangerous, which in this case involves pedalling fast in a straight line by yourself (The A50 is basically straight and wide with two lanes). There's nothing inherently dangerous about that.

It's the adding of cars and HGV's etc that aren't driving safely that suddenly makes it dangerous.
But the solution some favour is to keep them and remove the bikes. Kind of assumes that dangerous lorry driving etc is to be expected and ok.

[Johnnytheboy]

Garybee said:

It's a bit counter intuitive but riding on dual carriageways is in some ways safer than riding on small country lanes. The difference in speed differential (10mph) really isn't that great. Nobody pulls out of a minor road directly into your path or just plain into the side of you. The roads are straighter so you are visible for longer. Nobody overtakes you (or almost does) then immediately brakes and turns left onto a minor road. On a single carriageway, cars often overtake those travelling the opposite direction as they are level with you (closing speed here is theirs + yours, much worse than on a dual carriageway) leaving you nowhere to go. Dual carriageways actually reduce the opportunities for inattentive/bad drivers to kill you, even though it doesn't look or feel safe at first glance.

I wasn't thinking so much from a safety angle as an enjoyability angle.

But on the safety front, from a motorist's perspective, my worry about encountering cyclists on a DC is the closing speed as people catch them up. In most traffic conditions on a SC if you catch a cyclist up, you usually catch up a car waiting to pass them so get slowed down to the cyclist's speed by necessity.

On DCs it's my perception that the cyclist is more likely to have vehicles not slow down before passing them.