Diesel backlash
Discussion
kambites said:
heebeegeetee said:
Given all this, how is that we a re supposedly suffering so much pollution from diesel than Europe?
Are we? We have a few areas where we are not living up to some EU pollution targets but I don't think this is any different from other countries in Europe.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/...
Where we do differ is that the UK in more densely populated than the rest of Europe.
Ride a pushbike and you know which pollutes more, diesels bloody stink when they go past, usually with the turbo whistling and the exhaust blowing out visible particulates, petrol cars you generally dont notice.
I think diesels have their place, and its generally in bigger, heavier vehicles like SUV's as to move something big, you need a big petrol engine and they just don't provide the economy, the benefit is less pronounced in the stuff most people drive.
I do have the view that its a bit of a pack mentality and a perception that diesel motoring is free and petrol motoring is hugely expensive but also, I find that in the average hatchback that the diesel version is much nicer to drive than say the average 1.6 or 1.8, more satisfying and to match it you need the turbo petrol version which really does scare some off.
the government will now wage war on the evil diesel owners, ruining the environment. Wonder if they will continue to spank those of us that are daft enough to drive a large capacity, old school NA petrol that was registered after 2006, cant be that many in the scheme of things now.
I think diesels have their place, and its generally in bigger, heavier vehicles like SUV's as to move something big, you need a big petrol engine and they just don't provide the economy, the benefit is less pronounced in the stuff most people drive.
I do have the view that its a bit of a pack mentality and a perception that diesel motoring is free and petrol motoring is hugely expensive but also, I find that in the average hatchback that the diesel version is much nicer to drive than say the average 1.6 or 1.8, more satisfying and to match it you need the turbo petrol version which really does scare some off.
the government will now wage war on the evil diesel owners, ruining the environment. Wonder if they will continue to spank those of us that are daft enough to drive a large capacity, old school NA petrol that was registered after 2006, cant be that many in the scheme of things now.
The huge shift toward leasing cars doesn't help either.
With a lease car you needn't give a funk about mechanical repairs...hence the majority of new cars sold today are diesels.
I was recently very tempted to get rid of my 10yr old Ford Galaxy (2.3 petrol) as it developed a potentially terminal (in repair vs value terms) fault. I worked out that at 10k a year at 25mpg it was £200 per month cheaper to keep hold of the old petrol bus vs getting a new car on a fully maintained lease deal through work. The new car would do a reported 70mpg (worked out costs bases on 45mpg though).
Fortunately I fixed the car for nothing so it has an indefinite reprieve.
Personally, I don't care what is pumped out of the back of my car.
With a lease car you needn't give a funk about mechanical repairs...hence the majority of new cars sold today are diesels.
I was recently very tempted to get rid of my 10yr old Ford Galaxy (2.3 petrol) as it developed a potentially terminal (in repair vs value terms) fault. I worked out that at 10k a year at 25mpg it was £200 per month cheaper to keep hold of the old petrol bus vs getting a new car on a fully maintained lease deal through work. The new car would do a reported 70mpg (worked out costs bases on 45mpg though).
Fortunately I fixed the car for nothing so it has an indefinite reprieve.
Personally, I don't care what is pumped out of the back of my car.
heebeegeetee said:
Apparently given a choice we'd all be running around with humongous big petrols and it's only the price of fuel that stops us from doing so, so I don't think any of us cares about air quality tbh.
First sensible post. If we really cared we'd all be riding bicycles. Actually we'd just top ourselves, and make sure 'Do not cremate' was written on our recycled toilet paper will.BGarside said:
Leon19841 said:
This!! funny how little this is addressed isn't it! Lets face it, between the food we have to consume, packaging, energy, fuel, cars etc you could be the most green obsessed carbon aware person on the planet and you wouldn't be carbon neutral in the god knows how many years you will live (this is increasing all the time don't forget)
So regardless of how green we are, long term the population increase will be the demise of us. We just can't sustain the increase levels we have now.
+1. Uncontrolled population growth is the elephant in the room and will be the death of us all...So regardless of how green we are, long term the population increase will be the demise of us. We just can't sustain the increase levels we have now.
You mind find small pockets of remote tribal humanity that have retained the skills sets to survive and live off the what's left of natural land.
The end of the global industrial age will come at some point near the end of this century I'd say, but certainly not too far into the next one.
J4CKO said:
I find that in the average hatchback that the diesel version is much nicer to drive than say the average 1.6 or 1.8, more satisfying and to match it you need the turbo petrol version which really does scare some off.
Seriously? I left diesels because I was taking company cars and this meant 2.0 4 pot diesels that didn't want to rev, had a ridiculously short first gear and had around 1500RPM of usable rev range. Found them utterly horrible, peaky power and a throttle peddle which seemed irrelevant like it wasn't even attached.Give me a NA 1.8 petrol over a 2.0 4 pot derv anyday
Frankly, I bought my car because it was fun, looked good and (being 20) was cheap to insurance, the MPG never really came into mind. Occasionally I look at my MPG but that's it. If I want my Air Con on, I'll have it on, If I want the window down, I'll have it down. I enjoy driving and cars to much to worry/care about what's being "dangerous materials" are coming from the exhaust.
I'd much rather enjoy driving a fun, "uneconomical" car rather than a boring box with the bland diesel. That doesn't mean that I don't understand the point of diesels because I do. But, to me,they only become worthwhile is if they're rep cars blasting up and down the motorway every day, because that's where an diesel comes in.
I'd much rather enjoy driving a fun, "uneconomical" car rather than a boring box with the bland diesel. That doesn't mean that I don't understand the point of diesels because I do. But, to me,they only become worthwhile is if they're rep cars blasting up and down the motorway every day, because that's where an diesel comes in.
I currently run one petrol and one diesel car (MX-5 and Ford Mondeo). The mondeo is actually pretty decent to drive and I would consider another one as a daily driver but only if it was a relatively new / low mileage car. I wouldn't buy an older, higher mileage diesel for the reasons covered in this thread. I'm sure I read somewhere that N/A petrol engines tend to get far closer to their claimed MPG in percentage terms than Turbo diesels.
The likelihood is that my next car will by either small capacity petrol turbo or a mid sized N/A petrol.
The likelihood is that my next car will by either small capacity petrol turbo or a mid sized N/A petrol.
I got a diesel 6 years ago because i was always told they are cheaper to run etc. could have got a cheaper petrol equivalent, but left overs i wold have spent on nights out etc. I got paid weekly and not much at the time, Say £100. In a petrol i would have spent £50 travelling to uni, in the diesel i spent £30. Now these days £20 is not alot, but back then £70 spare vs £50 spare meant i could have my hangover breakfast vs nothing after a night out or afford to do 2 things a week i.e. clubbing and cinema.
These days though.. £20 i can afford to loose, and even though i still own said diesel, im getting a 3.0 Z4 next instead. Bring on that lovely exhaust note, roof down, sub 20mpg on a hoon and bigger smiles on my face! (Plus said diesel now gets 37mpg, even at 22mpg its not even doubling my fuel bill of £20 weekly.)
These days though.. £20 i can afford to loose, and even though i still own said diesel, im getting a 3.0 Z4 next instead. Bring on that lovely exhaust note, roof down, sub 20mpg on a hoon and bigger smiles on my face! (Plus said diesel now gets 37mpg, even at 22mpg its not even doubling my fuel bill of £20 weekly.)
McWigglebum4th said:
Seeing the average annual milage in the Uk is less then 9000 miles per year i haven't a clue why diesels are so popular
Big assumption there that people change their car every few years. Total mileage is more important the annual mileage. My wife's diesel does about 9000 miles per year but we've had it for nearly 9 years and 80000 miles.J4CKO said:
Ride a pushbike and you know which pollutes more, diesels bloody stink when they go past, usually with the turbo whistling and the exhaust blowing out visible particulates, petrol cars you generally dont notice.
I think diesels have their place, and its generally in bigger, heavier vehicles like SUV's as to move something big, you need a big petrol engine and they just don't provide the economy, the benefit is less pronounced in the stuff most people drive.
I do have the view that its a bit of a pack mentality and a perception that diesel motoring is free and petrol motoring is hugely expensive but also, I find that in the average hatchback that the diesel version is much nicer to drive than say the average 1.6 or 1.8, more satisfying and to match it you need the turbo petrol version which really does scare some off.
the government will now wage war on the evil diesel owners, ruining the environment. Wonder if they will continue to spank those of us that are daft enough to drive a large capacity, old school NA petrol that was registered after 2006, cant be that many in the scheme of things now.
Indeed. Part of my daily cycle route is a 4 mile pavement adjacent to a DC and it's not pleasant! I thought particulate filters were supposed to reduce airborne soot? I think diesels have their place, and its generally in bigger, heavier vehicles like SUV's as to move something big, you need a big petrol engine and they just don't provide the economy, the benefit is less pronounced in the stuff most people drive.
I do have the view that its a bit of a pack mentality and a perception that diesel motoring is free and petrol motoring is hugely expensive but also, I find that in the average hatchback that the diesel version is much nicer to drive than say the average 1.6 or 1.8, more satisfying and to match it you need the turbo petrol version which really does scare some off.
the government will now wage war on the evil diesel owners, ruining the environment. Wonder if they will continue to spank those of us that are daft enough to drive a large capacity, old school NA petrol that was registered after 2006, cant be that many in the scheme of things now.
Diesel HGVs only do about 10mpg anyway I thought? How bad would the mpg be if they were 12 litre turbo petrol engines?
I have nothing against diesel per se (apart from that sooty cycle route) but for the love of god, if I see anyone else in my estate buy a white Audi 2.0 TDI with gunmetal wheels, I'm going to torch the fecking thing.
Leon19841 said:
J4CKO said:
I find that in the average hatchback that the diesel version is much nicer to drive than say the average 1.6 or 1.8, more satisfying and to match it you need the turbo petrol version which really does scare some off.
Seriously? I left diesels because I was taking company cars and this meant 2.0 4 pot diesels that didn't want to rev, had a ridiculously short first gear and had around 1500RPM of usable rev range. Found them utterly horrible, peaky power and a throttle peddle which seemed irrelevant like it wasn't even attached.Give me a NA 1.8 petrol over a 2.0 4 pot derv anyday
A 2.0 Petrol non turbo VW wasnt too bad at 120 odd lb/ft at 2500 ish rpm, the 115 diesel had another 100 lb/ft at 1900 rpm.
J4CKO said:
Leon19841 said:
J4CKO said:
I find that in the average hatchback that the diesel version is much nicer to drive than say the average 1.6 or 1.8, more satisfying and to match it you need the turbo petrol version which really does scare some off.
Seriously? I left diesels because I was taking company cars and this meant 2.0 4 pot diesels that didn't want to rev, had a ridiculously short first gear and had around 1500RPM of usable rev range. Found them utterly horrible, peaky power and a throttle peddle which seemed irrelevant like it wasn't even attached.Give me a NA 1.8 petrol over a 2.0 4 pot derv anyday
A 2.0 Petrol non turbo VW wasnt too bad at 120 odd lb/ft at 2500 ish rpm, the 115 diesel had another 100 lb/ft at 1900 rpm.
Jonty355 said:
jmorgan said:
Going to knacker a lot of people then.
Like the government gives a sh*t?Hack off the public that need a car for work, also means they find it hard to swap to petrol as there will be less resale value in the car, perhaps an increase everyday goods, who knows.
I switched from a 4.2 V8 into a 2.5 turbo (both petrol) and have recently moved to a 2.7 diesel Merc.
Probably don't do the mileage to justify the diesel but was getting sick of a tank of fuel lasting 4 days. Diesel is lasting over two weeks. Plus trying to sell a petrol car with a big engine when it's time to change....
I'd rather drive around in the diesel Merc than in a low powered petrol. MPG isn't far off 50 and there's plenty of push from the engine, no substitute for the last two cars though
Completely agree about the brainwashed state though, my dad is retired, does under 5k miles a year, most local (which he should use my mum's petrol Fiesta for but doesn't!) with the odd long trip and he insists on buying diesel. Even when I show him how much cheaper the petrol model is (and he likes quick cars) he doesn't entertain it.
Probably don't do the mileage to justify the diesel but was getting sick of a tank of fuel lasting 4 days. Diesel is lasting over two weeks. Plus trying to sell a petrol car with a big engine when it's time to change....
I'd rather drive around in the diesel Merc than in a low powered petrol. MPG isn't far off 50 and there's plenty of push from the engine, no substitute for the last two cars though
Completely agree about the brainwashed state though, my dad is retired, does under 5k miles a year, most local (which he should use my mum's petrol Fiesta for but doesn't!) with the odd long trip and he insists on buying diesel. Even when I show him how much cheaper the petrol model is (and he likes quick cars) he doesn't entertain it.
Jimboka said:
I've owned diesels for the last 8 years.
I prefer the way they drive.
I've saved tens of thousands in fuel costs.
I'm not on first name terms with local Esso cashier .
I've not shuttered the much hyped Diesel engine problems , they tend to happen on the internet rather than real life.
Even assuming the following:I prefer the way they drive.
I've saved tens of thousands in fuel costs.
I'm not on first name terms with local Esso cashier .
I've not shuttered the much hyped Diesel engine problems , they tend to happen on the internet rather than real life.
Average price per litre of £129.75 petrol / £136.26 diesel (current national average prices)
A saving of £20,000 in fuel (the absolute minimum I can infer from your comment)
That your petrol was HALF as efficient as your diesel (25mpg / 50mpg)
You would have to do over 178,000 miles to achieve that saving.
If all that is true then well done. Yes I am bored.
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