RE: Discovery Vision Concept revealed by Land Rover
Discussion
Oh, one other thing.
For me I want the ladder chassis still. I tow a 3,300kg boat and the auto Disco 3 is perfect for this.
In fact the inability of a new Defender to tow as well as my Disco meant I didn't buy one recently (the motor is gutless, the gearchanges a pain, it's not as stable and it's slow, so slow...).
And a good friend of mine tows a smaller boat (circa 2,200kg) with his ML Merc and it's stretched the body slightly so now his panel gaps don't line up on the rear doors and boot. No ladder chassis you see.
The lack of a ladder chassis is why I haven't bothered to fit out my FFRR with a brake controller and have that tow heavy weights as well. Stuffing that up would make me miserable.
I should caveat this by saying it's extremely hilly where we all live and I insist on having my boat out the front of the hous.
For me I want the ladder chassis still. I tow a 3,300kg boat and the auto Disco 3 is perfect for this.
In fact the inability of a new Defender to tow as well as my Disco meant I didn't buy one recently (the motor is gutless, the gearchanges a pain, it's not as stable and it's slow, so slow...).
And a good friend of mine tows a smaller boat (circa 2,200kg) with his ML Merc and it's stretched the body slightly so now his panel gaps don't line up on the rear doors and boot. No ladder chassis you see.
The lack of a ladder chassis is why I haven't bothered to fit out my FFRR with a brake controller and have that tow heavy weights as well. Stuffing that up would make me miserable.
I should caveat this by saying it's extremely hilly where we all live and I insist on having my boat out the front of the hous.
Towed up to and probably beyond the legal limit many times with both a Discovery 3 and several L322 Range Rovers. There is no difference which you can attribute to how the chassis is constructed. Amazingly, none have stretched and the doors still shut.
Moot anyway because the likelihood of anyone ordering a new Discovery like the Vision concept and havinging a "lifestyle" where they need to tow is zero. AÂ bike rack would be pretty extreme.
Moot anyway because the likelihood of anyone ordering a new Discovery like the Vision concept and havinging a "lifestyle" where they need to tow is zero. AÂ bike rack would be pretty extreme.
Edited by NomduJour on Thursday 17th April 09:23
NomduJour said:
Moot anyway because the likelihood of anyone ordering a new Discovery like the Vision concept and havinging a "lifestyle" where they need to tow is zero. AÂ bike rack would be pretty extreme.
I think you a completely wrong there. I live in an area where there are lots of farms and I see plenty of new D3/D4s towing their horseboxes and occasionally livestock. Edited by NomduJour on Thursday 17th April 09:23
The new discovery will be able to pull the standard 3500Kg. Despite people saying LR have lost their way, I can't see them giving up that towing rating for the D5.
As I recall the world was going to end ten years ago because D3 did away with 'absolutely essential' live axles.
There seems to be a presumption here that JLR are stupid and have no idea who their customer base is: I'd be inclined to suspect that they do know, and that it doesn't include too many of the 'One Life Live It' types.
They will be careful to ensure that Discovery - remember that that is the name of the range, not just of one model - does not take sales from RRS, which means less glitz and more utility, but hopefully at least a TDV6 in the largest vehicle, which will replace D4, even if the smaller FL2 replacement only has 4 cylinders.
There seems to be a presumption here that JLR are stupid and have no idea who their customer base is: I'd be inclined to suspect that they do know, and that it doesn't include too many of the 'One Life Live It' types.
They will be careful to ensure that Discovery - remember that that is the name of the range, not just of one model - does not take sales from RRS, which means less glitz and more utility, but hopefully at least a TDV6 in the largest vehicle, which will replace D4, even if the smaller FL2 replacement only has 4 cylinders.
NomduJour said:
Seems pretty obvious that the next Discovery will be a long way from what the current one was when it was launched. The very last people this is designed for are farmers. Better to hope the new Defender isn't as glitzy.
I don't have high hopes Edited by NomduJour on Thursday 17th April 10:14
IroningMan said:
As I recall the world was going to end ten years ago because D3 did away with 'absolutely essential' live axles.
There seems to be a presumption here that JLR are stupid and have no idea who their customer base is: I'd be inclined to suspect that they do know, and that it doesn't include too many of the 'One Life Live It' types.
Exactly. Here is one of the great British success stories of recent years, a company that has hardly missed a step since the ownership change and, to the contrary, has produced stunning product that has created an unprecedented level of demand. Against that we have the usual whiners of PH telling them they don't know what they're doing. There seems to be a presumption here that JLR are stupid and have no idea who their customer base is: I'd be inclined to suspect that they do know, and that it doesn't include too many of the 'One Life Live It' types.
JLR have the pulse of all their markets and both brands are going to grow massively over the next few years. This is a fantastic story for Britain, be proud of it.
unrepentant said:
This is a fantastic story for Britain, be proud of it.
Britain is not regarded as a Nation of Whiners for nothing though is it? 
Sad thing is, I spent my years in SA promoting everything British only to return here later in life to discover the general views seem to have been correct; we are a bunch of whingers!
Nothing is ever good enough.
Well, I am a fully signed up member of the jolly band who do think JLR are doing a very good job and wish them all the best - their designs and vehicles are excellent!
JLR's business is making money for the parent company - right now, they're doing very well at that (ideal when an IPO is surely in the offing and ideal for the salesmen signing up the vacuous to finance deals). Let's hope they don't lose sight of why they're able to flog hundreds and hundreds of thousands of "premium" "lifestyle" "SUVs" off the back of their name and reputation. Lack of a proper Land Rover would certainly undermine that to anyone with a brain (so they'll probably be absolutely fine).
Coolbanana said:
Well, I am a fully signed up member of the jolly band who do think JLR are doing a very good job and wish them all the best - their designs and vehicles are excellent!
They are doing a fantastic job and they are backed by a fantastic parent. TATA / JLR invested $4 billion last year and will invest a further $5 billion this year. That's the same level of investment as Ford! JLR made 425,000 cars last year. Ford probably made 425,000 white Taurus's! Thousands of British jobs have been created in the past few years with more undoubtedly to come. Every new launch has been a success and there is a lot more great new product in the pipeline. JLR know exactly what the market wants and are delivering modern innovative product while at the same time preserving the proud heritage of 2 brands that go back to 1922 and 1947 respectively.unrepentant said:
Exactly. Here is one of the great British success stories of recent years, a company that has hardly missed a step since the ownership change and, to the contrary, has produced stunning product that has created an unprecedented level of demand. Against that we have the usual whiners of PH telling them they don't know what they're doing.
JLR have the pulse of all their markets and both brands are going to grow massively over the next few years. This is a fantastic story for Britain, be proud of it.
Leaving behind real capability and offering the illusion... yes, they are chasing sales. JLR have the pulse of all their markets and both brands are going to grow massively over the next few years. This is a fantastic story for Britain, be proud of it.
They are targeting a different (and larger) market than what they used to though.
So what you have is a company riding on 'perceived' image, which is all fine and dandy as long as they can keep that image up.
Land Rover's "proud heritage" wasn't flogging chintzy soft-roaders to urban simpletons. The new Defender models will need to be pitched very carefully if they intend to rely on any heritage going forward.
Can you see Gerry McGovern in a pair of wellies? Would Moreschi even make him a pair?
Can you see Gerry McGovern in a pair of wellies? Would Moreschi even make him a pair?
NomduJour said:
Land Rover's "proud heritage" wasn't flogging chintzy soft-roaders to urban simpletons. The new Defender models will need to be pitched very carefully if they intend to rely on any heritage going forward.
Can you see Gerry McGovern in a pair of wellies? Would Moreschi even make him a pair?
They need look a what Jeep has done with the wrangler.Can you see Gerry McGovern in a pair of wellies? Would Moreschi even make him a pair?
Kept the rugged body on frame construction, kept the live axles and articulation, keep the manual locking centre differential, keep the basic, easily repaired body.
Add modern creature comforts and make sure the ergonomics are spot on... offer a decent range of engines and make sure it won't break down by the end of the road.
NomduJour said:
skyrover said:
They need look a what Jeep has done with the wrangler.
Solid axles are too much of a compromise on-road, even the next Wrangler won't have them. A new Defender needs to be absolutely modern, not a rehash.To put it simply... the live axles are going nowhere unless they mimic them with air springs and electronics.
IroningMan said:
In all seriousness, who buys a Defender new for the tiny difference between its offroad capabilities with live axles and those it would have with independent suspension?
The difference is not tiny... there is a fundamental difference in the way the vehicle behaves 
As you can see... the vehicle underneath has much more traction.
Essential for a specific degree of off-road ability which is really only a concern for the leisure market in the US. Vast majority of commercial users don't need it (witnessed by how they all now use Japanese pick-ups with IFS). Road manners are way more important than a final degree of articulation (buts it must be as capable as the current Defender).
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