Where have all the new cheap fun cars gone?

Where have all the new cheap fun cars gone?

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Discussion

2 Wycked

2,335 posts

230 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
AudiWurst said:
mcflurry said:
Chicane-UK said:
It does seem pretty insane but the Fiesta ST seems to be about the best "cheap" fun you can have, at £16k :|
£16000 for a Fiesta? The world's gone mad wink
No, it's just inflation at work.

A Fiesta RS Turbo was £11k in 2001. 50% inflation in 13 years averages out at 3.1% inflation per year.
They didn't make a Fiesta RS Turbo in 2001.

J4CKO

41,284 posts

199 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
s m said:
ukaskew said:
The Ignis Sport and 100hp were £9995 if memory serves, so say £13k now, even so there is very little around that price bracket aside from the previously mentioned Swift Sport.

With a £10k budget and happy to go up to a couple of years old that should pull in anything that was £12-13k new, there is still pretty much nothing on my radar worth shouting about.
105bhp in an MG3 Sport for £9549? Wrong badge/image I suspect.....
Apparently quite of few of these are being sold, the price and media functionality are attracting some younger buyers it seems, probably the same market as the old ZR model used to serve, amazing how many of those you still see really.

I agree that the Aygo clones not having a warm version is a shame, we have a C1 and it is great fun, just give it 100 bhp, some better seats, slightly wider wheels/tyres, bit stiffer and funk it up a bit and it would be great. Suspect the production facility is focused on building one model with three different trims rather than different underpinnings.




AudiWurst

4,544 posts

226 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
2 Wycked said:
AudiWurst said:
A Fiesta RS Turbo was £11k in 2001. 50% inflation in 13 years averages out at 3.1% inflation per year.
They didn't make a Fiesta RS Turbo in 2001.
Sorry, meant 1991. Makes the current Fiesta ST look even better value.

ukaskew

Original Poster:

10,642 posts

220 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
s m said:
105bhp in an MG3 Sport for £9549? Wrong badge/image I suspect.....
I drove an Ignis Sport for a few years, and I'm now 32 and drive a Sportka...image is not something that concerns me!

I've never seen nor heard of the MG3, and my nearest MG dealership is several counties away by the looks of things!

Edited by ukaskew on Wednesday 16th April 14:57

Mercury00

4,098 posts

155 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
I think the standard Fiesta Zetec fits the bill more than the ST. 100bhp turbo engine, class-leading handling and available for £10,600 on drive the deal. Seems more in line with warm hatches of old.

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
AudiWurst said:
No, it's just inflation at work.

A Fiesta RS Turbo was £11k in 2001. 50% inflation in 13 years averages out at 3.1% inflation per year.
Hmmm its not the whole story though is it..

2003 Audi S3 £27k
2014 Audi S3 £30k

2003 Leon Cupra R £17k
2014 Leon Cupra £26k

2007 Audi S3 £28k
2014 Audi S3 £30k
2007 Astra VXR £19k
2014 Astra VXR £27k

All list prices.

Whats happened is the "cheap" stuff has had all the gadgets and gizmos added so they are as expensive as anything else out there.

As a result we have a market that are full of cars that are the same, too heavy, too much added crap to go wrong (TPMS, lane detection, auto wipers, auto lights, DMFs, electric seats, adaptive lights, adaptive cruise and so on).
The manufacturers have added all this junk, told us we want it all and raise their prices accordingly.

Hot hatches have become lardy luxury cars that have completely lost sight of what they were meant to be.


Edited by Crafty_ on Wednesday 16th April 21:28

TheFinners

543 posts

126 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
Stick those prices in an inflation calculator and the outlook is different. Although your point still stands to an extent for the 'mainstream' models.

Edit - shown below:

Leon 2003 - £22,766
S3 2003 - £36,158
S3 2007 - £32,903
VXR 2007 - £22,327



Edited by TheFinners on Wednesday 16th April 21:31

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
TheFinners said:
Stick those prices in an inflation calculator, I'd bet that would prove much of your point to be incorrect!
Erm,

Example 1
S3 goes up £3k or 11%
Leon £9k or 53%

Example 2
S3 goes up 2k or 7.5%
Astra 8k or 42%

I'd like to see the inflation calculator that can verify your claim.


TheFinners

543 posts

126 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
Post above has the calculations in, but I agree it would be nice to have a simpler, lighter breed of hot hatches, as the latest ones while very fast and capable leave me feeling a little cold.

ambuletz

10,690 posts

180 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
I sometimes wonder to myself that were it not for emissions & safety regulations, would an older car cost less to build if it was done today? Surely manufacturers still must have the presses for their old cars. Lots of tat in new cars you don't really need. How much would an old Toyota Starlet GT Turbo cost today compared to any other similar superminis with around 130hp. Or if the mk1 MX-5 were being built, how much would it compare in costs to the current MX5.

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
The point is that the S3 is only 30k now, not 32 or 36.

The other two have increased in price dramatically in comparison. Because they've been laden down will all the gadgets, gizmos and pointless tech.

The range in the market (function and price wise) used to be:

X__________________________________________________________X

its now:

X________X

It wouldn't be so bad if we were seeing quality/reliability improve, in some cases this has actually got worse, not better - the more stuff they add, the more chance of problems, both because the tech isn't good enough (yes DPFs, I'm looking at you) and because of the sheer amount of it.

early to mid 90s were the heyday I think.

TheFinners

543 posts

126 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
Crafty_ said:
The point is that the S3 is only 30k now, not 32 or 36.

The other two have increased in price dramatically in comparison. Because they've been laden down will all the gadgets, gizmos and pointless tech.

The range in the market (function and price wise) used to be:

X__________________________________________________________X

its now:

X________X

It wouldn't be so bad if we were seeing quality/reliability improve, in some cases this has actually got worse, not better - the more stuff they add, the more chance of problems, both because the tech isn't good enough (yes DPFs, I'm looking at you) and because of the sheer amount of it.

early to mid 90s were the heyday I think.
Ok, that has made your point much clearer. It is also present in the class below - the Fiesta ST is the cheapest of the 'hot' hatches in that class at £17,000 but if you want something cheaper and simpler you can choose from the £14,000 Swift Sport, a £14,000 Swift Sport or the £14,000 Swift Sport.

ambuletz

10,690 posts

180 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
Toyota, Honda and nissan really need to sort themselves out. Get some cheap fun cars made. the korean brands could have done this, but most people who buy them aren't really the type who would buy a cheap fun car.

greggy50

6,161 posts

190 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
Crafty_ said:
Hmmm its not the whole story though is it..

2003 Audi S3 £27k
2014 Audi S3 £30k

2003 Leon Cupra R £17k
2014 Leon Cupra £26k

2007 Audi S3 £28k
2014 Audi S3 £30k
2007 Astra VXR £19k
2014 Astra VXR £27k

All list prices.

Whats happened is the "cheap" stuff has had all the gadgets and gizmos added so they are as expensive as anything else out there.

As a result we have a market that are full of cars that are the same, too heavy, too much added crap to go wrong (TPMS, lane detection, auto wipers, auto lights, DMFs, electric seats, adaptive lights, adaptive cruise and so on).
The manufacturers have added all this junk, told us we want it all and raise their prices accordingly.

Hot hatches have become lardy luxury cars that have completely lost sight of what they were meant to be.


Edited by Crafty_ on Wednesday 16th April 21:28
Difference is you can't get much of a discount on the S3 whereas the Astra VXR you can get for around £22/£23k brand new quite easily would guess the leon would be similar as well once initial demand has settled list price means sweat fa imo unless its a company car

tali1

5,265 posts

200 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
AudiWurst said:
2 Wycked said:
AudiWurst said:
A Fiesta RS Turbo was £11k in 2001. 50% inflation in 13 years averages out at 3.1% inflation per year.
They didn't make a Fiesta RS Turbo in 2001.
Sorry, meant 1991. Makes the current Fiesta ST look even better value.
Are we ready to rumble ? Let's roll!
In 1991 it was actually £12460 or £22,652.28 today.Ford were verry greedy panchauds back in those days
In 1993 a Sierra 2.0i Ghia 4x4 estate was £19990 or ....£34,492.75 today -oh twadi!

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
greggy50 said:
Difference is you can't get much of a discount on the S3 whereas the Astra VXR you can get for around £22/£23k brand new quite easily would guess the leon would be similar as well once initial demand has settled list price means sweat fa imo unless its a company car
But that works both ways, in 2003 and 2007 the Leon and Astra were available for below list as you suggest.
List on my 2007 Astra was £22k or so, I didn't pay that.
A 2014 car with the same options (or at least as close as possible) is £30k or so.
I paid 16k, I think you could get the current car with the relevant options for ~£24-25k

So the point stands.


ambuletz

10,690 posts

180 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
tali1 said:
AudiWurst said:
2 Wycked said:
AudiWurst said:
A Fiesta RS Turbo was £11k in 2001. 50% inflation in 13 years averages out at 3.1% inflation per year.
They didn't make a Fiesta RS Turbo in 2001.
Sorry, meant 1991. Makes the current Fiesta ST look even better value.
Are we ready to rumble ? Let's roll!
In 1991 it was actually £12460 or £22,652.28 today.Ford were verry greedy panchauds back in those days
In 1993 a Sierra 2.0i Ghia 4x4 estate was £19990 or ....£34,492.75 today -oh twadi!
Someone mentioned on here in a post that since it's creation in 1976 Ford had not made a single profit on the fiesta until about 2007-2008. Tried googling it to find out the source but had no luck.

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
TheFinners said:
the Fiesta ST is the cheapest of the 'hot' hatches in that class at £17,000 but if you want something cheaper and simpler you can choose from the £14,000 Swift Sport, a £14,000 Swift Sport or the £14,000 Swift Sport.
Or a few months old Suzuki Swift Sport with less than 10k miles for £10k... OK, that's still a choice of 1 and not quite new but what amazing value considering how good it is to drive and how well equipped it is...

Most overlooked / under rated car on the market ?

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
TheFinners said:
Ok, that has made your point much clearer. It is also present in the class below - the Fiesta ST is the cheapest of the 'hot' hatches in that class at £17,000 but if you want something cheaper and simpler you can choose from the £14,000 Swift Sport, a £14,000 Swift Sport or the £14,000 Swift Sport.
Or the Fiat 500 Abarth for £14,205

Condi

17,088 posts

170 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
I had a C1 for a week on hire. Good fun, I dont think it came out of 3rd gear unless you were on a duel carrigeway.