Why do they deliberately obscure vision at roundabouts?
Discussion
williamp said:
Is this the same reason why so many new roundabouts have such silly camber to them, and often involve a shatp tuen just before the roundabout??
Yes and no. Para 7.30 (and around there) in my link above concerns entry deflection (the "sharp turn" before you enter. Camber is a drainage issue and is there to get water off th road as quickly as possible. Water won't sit on a slope. Have a read of the Standard, it's not that difficult to understand and will tell you all you need to know. It also includes reasoning behind a lot of the theory.
rallycross said:
its completely stupid - based on having to dumb everything down to cope with the dumbest people on the road.
Replace "road" in your statement above with "planet". I'm sure there are instances in everybodies day to day workings that are a little bit "suck eggs". Hence why they put "Do not eat" on those little packets of silica gel, or warnings on electrical items saying "Unplug before disassembly"...Around here (Aberdeen) they've started removing the stuff in the middle of roundabouts, mostly plants/bushed/advertising hoardings. I initially welcomed this because at some of the busier ones where folk fly round them quickly it's impossible to see a car until it's almost on top of you. I'll be watching these with interest to see how behaviour changes.
heebeegeetee said:
TurboHatchback said:
On many roundabouts with dual carriageway approaches there seems to be fences or other visual obstructions put in place for no other purpose I can see but to block peoples view of the traffic until they are right on the roundabout.
Case in point: Google map link
What on earth is the point of these? If one has a good early view of the roundabout it allows one to plan the approach, minimise unnecessary braking or stopping and maximise traffic flow. Obscuring the approach just creates the opposite of the above, it increases unnecessary braking and stopping, reduces traffic flow, wastes fuel etc etc. As far as I can see they are up there with traffic calming measures in the category of truly stupid ideas that somehow seem to have made it to completion.
Does anyone know of any good reason for these features?
Faster traffic on roundabouts actually impedes traffic flow. By slowing the traffic down gaps are created which allows more traffic onto the roundabout. I guess it's the last resort before putting traffic lights on the roundabout.Case in point: Google map link
What on earth is the point of these? If one has a good early view of the roundabout it allows one to plan the approach, minimise unnecessary braking or stopping and maximise traffic flow. Obscuring the approach just creates the opposite of the above, it increases unnecessary braking and stopping, reduces traffic flow, wastes fuel etc etc. As far as I can see they are up there with traffic calming measures in the category of truly stupid ideas that somehow seem to have made it to completion.
Does anyone know of any good reason for these features?
Ever been to M25 J9B? The traffic reaching 40-50mph on the roundabout meant traffic queuing off the M25 often extended down and sat in L1 due to minimal gaps on the circulatory. Hence now the traffic lights - and far fewer queues.
ETA didn't stop me getting phone calls telling me I was wasting taxpayers money, I was anti-car, I was trying to force people on to trains etc. The motoring public can be morons sometimes.
Edited by OpulentBob on Wednesday 16th April 13:33
Bennet said:
If they are spending money doing it, it will have been shown to work. They don't spend money just because someone once had a hunch that it might help.
Too many people: "This doesn't imediately make sense to me, therefore it's stupid."
I'm afraid I don't share your fundamental faith in organisations only doing things because they make sense. I see countless examples of quite the opposite.Too many people: "This doesn't imediately make sense to me, therefore it's stupid."
You are not going to be able to convince me that these make sense. This road is a 30mph limit and would flow freely and safely except some cretin though it would be a good plan to introduce extra traffic jams, contention/danger and pollution for absolutely no benefit to anyone.
TurboHatchback said:
Bennet said:
If they are spending money doing it, it will have been shown to work. They don't spend money just because someone once had a hunch that it might help.
Too many people: "This doesn't imediately make sense to me, therefore it's stupid."
I'm afraid I don't share your fundamental faith in organisations only doing things because they make sense. I see countless examples of quite the opposite.Too many people: "This doesn't imediately make sense to me, therefore it's stupid."
You are not going to be able to convince me that these make sense. This road is a 30mph limit and would flow freely and safely except some cretin though it would be a good plan to introduce extra traffic jams, contention/danger and pollution for absolutely no benefit to anyone.
I'll bet there was a speeding/rat running issue down there, and kids (?) use the park on the left? Lots of old duffers live on the right (they look like retirement homes)?
Speed humps are a no-no due to houses. Schools, shops, churches etc all down there, which bring substantial problems at their various kicking-out times.
Stop looking for people to blame, because I'd bet a penny to a pound there are serious underlying issues with drivers taking the piss along there.
Nice attitude though, calling the planners cretins. If the scheme doesn't make sense to you, then maybe, just maybe, YOU'RE the thicko.
OpulentBob said:
How has that created danger? Is it not big enough and illuminated enough to see?!
Because now you have cars travelling in opposite directions on the same piece of tarmac. Only the other day I saw a learner driver get a priority wrong and go when they should have waited. The car going the other way also went and they nearly had a head-on collision followed by a long stand off whilst they both waited for each other to reverse. People are constantly speeding up just to fit through before someone else and cutting it finely. It also moves attention away from the surroundings and watching out for hazards and onto navigating these obstacles.OpulentBob said:
I'll bet there was a speeding/rat running issue down there, and kids (?) use the park on the left? Lots of old duffers live on the right (they look like retirement homes)?
Speed humps are a no-no due to houses. Schools, shops, churches etc all down there, which bring substantial problems at their various kicking-out times.
It doesn't actually slow anyone down though, those that sped before do so even more to fit through the gaps and make up time lost, those that didn't still don't. It is a hugely wide road with a very slow limit, when obeying the limit there is practically no risk of people/things jumping out in front of you.Speed humps are a no-no due to houses. Schools, shops, churches etc all down there, which bring substantial problems at their various kicking-out times.
OpulentBob said:
Stop looking for people to blame, because I'd bet a penny to a pound there are serious underlying issues with drivers taking the piss along there.
Not really no but if there were then these do nothing to help the problem.OpulentBob said:
Nice attitude though, calling the planners cretins. If the scheme doesn't make sense to you, then maybe, just maybe, YOU'RE the thicko.
I would hazard a guess that the actual road planners were told to do something by the council and this was the least intrusive option they could come up with, hence why they are so far apart and serve no purpose at all in actually slowing anyone down. I would honestly rather see speed cameras every 50ft than these things.BTW, insulting people on the internet doesn't tend to help your argument.
TurboHatchback said:
OpulentBob said:
How has that created danger? Is it not big enough and illuminated enough to see?!
Because now you have cars travelling in opposite directions on the same piece of tarmac. Only the other day I saw a learner driver get a priority wrong and go when they should have waited. The car going the other way also went and they nearly had a head-on collision followed by a long stand off whilst they both waited for each other to reverse. People are constantly speeding up just to fit through before someone else and cutting it finely. It also moves attention away from the surroundings and watching out for hazards and onto navigating these obstacles.OpulentBob said:
I'll bet there was a speeding/rat running issue down there, and kids (?) use the park on the left? Lots of old duffers live on the right (they look like retirement homes)?
Speed humps are a no-no due to houses. Schools, shops, churches etc all down there, which bring substantial problems at their various kicking-out times.
It doesn't actually slow anyone down though, those that sped before do so even more to fit through the gaps and make up time lost, those that didn't still don't. It is a hugely wide road with a very slow limit, when obeying the limit there is practically no risk of people/things jumping out in front of you.Speed humps are a no-no due to houses. Schools, shops, churches etc all down there, which bring substantial problems at their various kicking-out times.
OpulentBob said:
Stop looking for people to blame, because I'd bet a penny to a pound there are serious underlying issues with drivers taking the piss along there.
Not really no but if there were then these do nothing to help the problem.OpulentBob said:
Nice attitude though, calling the planners cretins. If the scheme doesn't make sense to you, then maybe, just maybe, YOU'RE the thicko.
I would hazard a guess that the actual road planners were told to do something by the council and this was the least intrusive option they could come up with, hence why they are so far apart and serve no purpose at all in actually slowing anyone down. I would honestly rather see speed cameras every 50ft than these things.BTW, insulting people on the internet doesn't tend to help your argument.
When you say people speed up to get through the gaps, do you really mean YOU speed up to get through the gaps? Have you sat there observing driver behaviour in the medium-to-long term?
Rather than whinging, have you not asked the question of your local highway department?
Because they will NOT have been put in for fun.
Yep I know these were installed a few years ago near Cheltenham on the M5 junction. I have to stop, check then go again. You did have a very good view before plenty of time to work out if you could make it.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8895,-2.153844,3...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8895,-2.153844,3...
As already mentioned, it's to slow traffic down on the approach. If a roundabout is tight with a lot of exits, it can be hit and miss for those trying to join if traffic is shooting onto it from the right. It works both ways, or at least should.
There is a roundabout local to me that allows traffic from a straight on approach to the right join too fast. It's Also a dualled lapproach and 30 mph. Very few people join at a sensible speed, lots of near misses with people on the right bouncing onto the roundabout and going at mad at the slower traffic already on it.
Don't forget, you give way to traffic already on a roundabout and not just to the right.
There is a roundabout local to me that allows traffic from a straight on approach to the right join too fast. It's Also a dualled lapproach and 30 mph. Very few people join at a sensible speed, lots of near misses with people on the right bouncing onto the roundabout and going at mad at the slower traffic already on it.
Don't forget, you give way to traffic already on a roundabout and not just to the right.
Rick Cutler said:
Yep I know these were installed a few years ago near Cheltenham on the M5 junction. I have to stop, check then go again. You did have a very good view before plenty of time to work out if you could make it.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8895,-2.153844,3...
That is a classic example right there, it would have been a really nice approach without them but now you have to pointlessly waste fuel, time and brake pads instead of just smoothly continuing.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8895,-2.153844,3...
OpulentBob said:
TurboHatchback said:
OpulentBob said:
How has that created danger? Is it not big enough and illuminated enough to see?!
Because now you have cars travelling in opposite directions on the same piece of tarmac. Only the other day I saw a learner driver get a priority wrong and go when they should have waited. The car going the other way also went and they nearly had a head-on collision followed by a long stand off whilst they both waited for each other to reverse. People are constantly speeding up just to fit through before someone else and cutting it finely. It also moves attention away from the surroundings and watching out for hazards and onto navigating these obstacles.OpulentBob said:
I'll bet there was a speeding/rat running issue down there, and kids (?) use the park on the left? Lots of old duffers live on the right (they look like retirement homes)?
Speed humps are a no-no due to houses. Schools, shops, churches etc all down there, which bring substantial problems at their various kicking-out times.
It doesn't actually slow anyone down though, those that sped before do so even more to fit through the gaps and make up time lost, those that didn't still don't. It is a hugely wide road with a very slow limit, when obeying the limit there is practically no risk of people/things jumping out in front of you.Speed humps are a no-no due to houses. Schools, shops, churches etc all down there, which bring substantial problems at their various kicking-out times.
OpulentBob said:
Stop looking for people to blame, because I'd bet a penny to a pound there are serious underlying issues with drivers taking the piss along there.
Not really no but if there were then these do nothing to help the problem.OpulentBob said:
Nice attitude though, calling the planners cretins. If the scheme doesn't make sense to you, then maybe, just maybe, YOU'RE the thicko.
I would hazard a guess that the actual road planners were told to do something by the council and this was the least intrusive option they could come up with, hence why they are so far apart and serve no purpose at all in actually slowing anyone down. I would honestly rather see speed cameras every 50ft than these things.BTW, insulting people on the internet doesn't tend to help your argument.
When you say people speed up to get through the gaps, do you really mean YOU speed up to get through the gaps? Have you sat there observing driver behaviour in the medium-to-long term?
Rather than whinging, have you not asked the question of your local highway department?
Because they will NOT have been put in for fun.
These pinch points are all over Basingstoke and are a f
king menace. They deliberately place traffic into conflict with traffic coming in the opposite direction and somebody thought this was a good idea?! People DO speed up to make a gap that isn't really there creating danger where previously there was none. As has been said, the ONLY time these serve to slow speeders down is when there's something coming in the opposite direction, and only then when it's at precisely the right time. Speed-triggered traffic lights with a camera on them would do a far better job.That particular road is long and straight and easy to speed down, however, the visibility along there, as is obvious in the pic, is fantastic.
TurboHatchback said:
Bennet said:
If they are spending money doing it, it will have been shown to work. They don't spend money just because someone once had a hunch that it might help.
Too many people: "This doesn't imediately make sense to me, therefore it's stupid."
I'm afraid I don't share your fundamental faith in organisations only doing things because they make sense. I see countless examples of quite the opposite.Too many people: "This doesn't imediately make sense to me, therefore it's stupid."
You are not going to be able to convince me that these make sense. This road is a 30mph limit and would flow freely and safely except some cretin though it would be a good plan to introduce extra traffic jams, contention/danger and pollution for absolutely no benefit to anyone.
The councils/DOT do make mistakes.
Here is an example. There was a bus layby. Some council/DOT idiot decides to get rid of it, so now when a bus stops it blocks the road. The tailback reaches the bridge as the vehicles can't pass the bus as the traffic approaching the bridge is stopped. Gridlock ensues. This is one of the major roads into the Brooklands estate where thousands of people work everday so it is a busy road.
Authorities always go on about recycling, pollution, etc but as previously posted these hairbrained schemes cause more pollution.
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