RE: Chris Harris video: Citroen 2CV

RE: Chris Harris video: Citroen 2CV

Author
Discussion

coppice

8,561 posts

143 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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Sorry but utter balls; if you can't drive low powered vehicles and then bleat that you need lots of power to be safe then you really need to learn how to drive properly . Ask the thousands of commercial vehicle drivers, classic car owners for some advice on technique perhaps ?

Ipelm

522 posts

191 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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Chris, how wrong I was about you, thought you were just another mindless hooner, instead it turns out that you have a highly developed motoring soul!!!

To paraphrase another better place, keep driving tastefully!

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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coppice said:
Sorry but utter balls; if you can't drive low powered vehicles and then bleat that you need lots of power to be safe then you really need to learn how to drive properly . Ask the thousands of commercial vehicle drivers, classic car owners for some advice on technique perhaps ?
I've had and driven plenty of classics (although some I consider just old bangers, like my Cortinas and Capri - horrors). Old Minis and Land Rovers and the like can be fun on quiet, empty roads, but I'm sick of having to thrash the bks off cars to get them to slot into traffic. My last 3-series was horrible in that regard - about as slow as a 2CV to 20mph. The Volvo 340 I inherited 20 years ago was similarly awful - had to drive it like the devil was after me to get anywhere. My Rover is now considered a classic and that was so easy to drive by comparison - 184bhp, 210lbft and 1270kg made for a properly quick little car. I'd also far rather be in a crash in the Rover than a 2CV. No amount of technique can compensate for inadequate power and torque.

Ipelm

522 posts

191 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
coppice said:
Sorry but utter balls; if you can't drive low powered vehicles and then bleat that you need lots of power to be safe then you really need to learn how to drive properly . Ask the thousands of commercial vehicle drivers, classic car owners for some advice on technique perhaps ?
I've had and driven plenty of classics (although some I consider just old bangers, like my Cortinas and Capri - horrors). Old Minis and Land Rovers and the like can be fun on quiet, empty roads, but I'm sick of having to thrash the bks off cars to get them to slot into traffic. My last 3-series was horrible in that regard - about as slow as a 2CV to 20mph. The Volvo 340 I inherited 20 years ago was similarly awful - had to drive it like the devil was after me to get anywhere. My Rover is now considered a classic and that was so easy to drive by comparison - 184bhp, 210lbft and 1270kg made for a properly quick little car. I'd also far rather be in a crash in the Rover than a 2CV. No amount of technique can compensate for inadequate power and torque.
I would rather be in the Volvo 340 than your Rover in a crash. When the 340 was still being made I was driving an example when two other cars hit one another side on side, causing one to cannon cross the road and I to hit his rear end. His car was completely crumpled and on mine the front bumper had moved about 1mm and wasnt even that noticable.

Rumblestripe

2,916 posts

161 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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RoverP6B said:
When someone comes roaring up behind you, or you need to make an overtake quickly and safely, spending as little time as possible on the wrong side of the road, especially when the car you're overtaking decides to play silly buggers by putting their foot down (as I've encountered untold thousands of times), or you need to slot into traffic at a junction and there's not a massive gap... that's when you really need power, and 100bhp/ton is only just enough. It's not about satisfaction, it's about safety. A 2CV is dangerously slow - modern-day traffic simply doesn't expect to encounter something so slow and you and your Tin Snail will end up crushed to a pulp in short order, as another poster above pointed out.
Some right old nonsense in there!

"When someone comes roaring up behind you" - ignore them?

"...you need to make an overtake..." - no such moment, you might WANT to overtake but unless you are driving an emergency services vehicle no-one NEEDS to overtake.

"...the car you're overtaking decides to play silly buggers by putting their foot down..." - perhaps someone has just come "roaring up" behind them? Tuck back in.

"...you need to slot into traffic at a junction and there's not a massive gap..." - again you don't NEED to, wait for a gap big enough.

"...modern-day traffic simply doesn't expect to encounter something so slow..." - I must have imagined the road sweeper, the tractor and the slow heavy load I saw today?

"...A 2CV is dangerously slow..." - it really isn't, people have survived the experience of driving them for ooh ages now!

You sound very impatient and intolerant, have you considered counselling?

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
coppice said:
Sorry but utter balls; if you can't drive low powered vehicles and then bleat that you need lots of power to be safe then you really need to learn how to drive properly . Ask the thousands of commercial vehicle drivers, classic car owners for some advice on technique perhaps ?
Absolutely. My daily driver is a 1971 car, with barely 90bhp on a good day and a 4 speed gearbox. You just have to be aware of how you may / may not effect traffic and vice versa. I also learnt the importance of maintaining momentum and of reading the roads ahead.

There are several new cars available, with far less than 100bhp per ton, yet they're certainly not considered to be a danger on our roads.

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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Ipelm said:
I would rather be in the Volvo 340 than your Rover in a crash. When the 340 was still being made I was driving an example when two other cars hit one another side on side, causing one to cannon cross the road and I to hit his rear end. His car was completely crumpled and on mine the front bumper had moved about 1mm and wasnt even that noticable.
The 340 was built like a tank, to be fair, but so was the Rover, which incorporated some very advanced features for its time in terms of passive crash safety. A colleague of mine walked away from a crash in his in which he was hit from behind by a speeding HGV.

Rumblestripe said:
"When someone comes roaring up behind you" - ignore them?
- no, you put a bit of room behind you.

Rumblestripe said:
"...you need to make an overtake..." - no such moment, you might WANT to overtake but unless you are driving an emergency services vehicle no-one NEEDS to overtake.
- nonsense. Some of us have places to get to, people waiting for us, punctuality is important.

Rumblestripe said:
"...the car you're overtaking decides to play silly buggers by putting their foot down..." - perhaps someone has just come "roaring up" behind them? Tuck back in.
. No, there is no excuse for putting your foot down when being overtaken by a faster car. I don't do it when something quicker passes me, because only a selfish dick would do so. When I've been forced to abandon an overtake, the car in front has usually then gone back to driving too slowly. Again, some of us have places to get to by set times.

Rumblestripe said:
"...you need to slot into traffic at a junction and there's not a massive gap..." - again you don't NEED to, wait for a gap big enough.
. In this part of the world, you'll sit there all day until the wee small hours of the early morning waiting for that 'big enough' gap.

Rumblestripe said:
"...modern-day traffic simply doesn't expect to encounter something so slow..." - I must have imagined the road sweeper, the tractor and the slow heavy load I saw today?
. Big vehicles like that can be seen a great distance off (partly due to size, partly due to lighting) and they carry suitable warning signs. A badly-lit small classic gives you no such warning.

Rumblestripe said:
"...A 2CV is dangerously slow..." - it really isn't, people have survived the experience of driving them for ooh ages now!
. I've driven one. It was dangerously slow. Add into that the comical body roll (it did not take much at all to tip it onto the outside two wheels only), the horrible body flex (doors would sometimes pop open uncommanded) and the total lack of crash protection and you have an utter death-trap which should be banned from public roads.

Itsallicanafford

2,759 posts

158 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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...bloody lovely! Reminds me of my old Landy but with less power. i just watched Mr happy on DVD with my 3 year old, he didn't even smile as much as Chris....

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Friday 18th April 2014
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RoverP6B said:
I've driven one. It was dangerously slow. Add into that the comical body roll (it did not take much at all to tip it onto the outside two wheels only), the horrible body flex (doors would sometimes pop open uncommanded) and the total lack of crash protection and you have an utter death-trap which should be banned from public roads.
Yet Citroen sold nigh on 9 million of them over a 42 year period?

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Friday 18th April 2014
quotequote all
e21Mark said:
Yet Citroen sold nigh on 9 million of them over a 42 year period?
Probably because of their incredible cheapness, but they arguably created too great a dependence on the car and shift away from public transport... the 2CV and its ilk really did for rural railway lines here and on the continent. Just because they sold in big numbers doesn't mean they were actually any good. Just look at air-cooled VWs.

g4ry13

16,887 posts

254 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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RoverP6B said:
Just because they sold in big numbers doesn't mean they were actually any good. Just look at air-cooled VWs.
What?!? The Porsche 993 was one of the last great 911s!

Hellbound

2,500 posts

175 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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See, now a chicken st like me would end up getting a Suzuki Lapin with a Renault 4 kit with roof rack and pretend it was just as cool.




I know, I'm shameless. frown

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
e21Mark said:
Yet Citroen sold nigh on 9 million of them over a 42 year period?
Probably because of their incredible cheapness, but they arguably created too great a dependence on the car and shift away from public transport... the 2CV and its ilk really did for rural railway lines here and on the continent. Just because they sold in big numbers doesn't mean they were actually any good. Just look at air-cooled VWs.
They, like the Beetle I take it you are eluding to, did exactly what they were designed to do. They provided cheap transportation and afforded independence. Whether you perceive them to be any good or not, the fact is you don't have to look to hard to find lots of happy owners. In fact, it would seem that many owners bought them more than once.

Conscript

1,378 posts

120 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
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graeme4130 said:
Earlier this year at Spa, I was having a beer with a few other petrol heads and the subject of Chris Harris's videos, for whatever reason, came up
Everyone seems to love Chris's videos, and for good reason, as they're generally fantastic
However, it did evolve into him having a massive 'Harris fanboy' following and one of the guys I was with joked and suggested that even if he made a video and declared his love for a car that was generally considered to be absolutely crap and a danger on modern roads, that suddenly the Chris Harris fanboy masses would join in and rejoice with him how this normally hated car must be proclaimed as the next big thing and that 'everyone should own on'
The example of the hateful bag of nails we used in the joke was the 2CV, and low and behold the video arrives and we now have circa 130 posts proclaiming an otherwise unloved car as the next big thing and how everyone's already known this

Chris Harris videos have engaged the masses and I love them, but a 2CV, in my eyes is a step to far
Is it not possible to appreciate the video without agreeing with the point being made?

I really enjoyed the video. It was interesting, amusing and gave a fresh perspective on the car. Doesn't mean I immediately change my opinion of the car to match Chris's.

Same goes for a lot of his videos. I enjoy the presentation and character of his videos, and his presenting style. Doesn't make me a fanboy who agrees with everything he says though.

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Conscript said:
Is it not possible to appreciate the video without agreeing with the point being made?

I really enjoyed the video. It was interesting, amusing and gave a fresh perspective on the car. Doesn't mean I immediately change my opinion of the car to match Chris's.

Same goes for a lot of his videos. I enjoy the presentation and character of his videos, and his presenting style. Doesn't make me a fanboy who agrees with everything he says though.
I used to watch Fred Dibnah for the same reason. I never wanted a steam engine, but his programs were incredibly interesting and entertaining.

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
g4ry13 said:
What?!? The Porsche 993 was one of the last great 911s!
Ha ha, I did say VWs not Porsches...

e21Mark said:
They, like the Beetle I take it you are eluding to, did exactly what they were designed to do. They provided cheap transportation and afforded independence. Whether you perceive them to be any good or not, the fact is you don't have to look to hard to find lots of happy owners. In fact, it would seem that many owners bought them more than once.
Beetles weren't THAT cheap, the handling on 'em was pretty vicious thanks to the engine being in the back and the swing-axle IRS (a Morris Minor may have a simple leaf-sprung live axle but it's a hang sight more predictable). Then there's still the issue of power - those engines were designed for lightweight aerobatic aircraft, not cars. They also have a habit of cracking the crank-cases.

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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All vestiges of reputation have now evaporated.

aardvark64

95 posts

185 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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Great video! Iconic car, good on CH for 'sharing the love'.

As a Trabant owner, I too understand the joy of driving something basic (leaf spring suspension, air-cooled, two-stroke engine, <30 hp, no in-car creature comforts) that needs to be nursed on even the simplest of journeys. Puts a huge smile on the face every time I go anywhere.

And they can be used as rally cars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSn1cffKnW0&for...

Nearest match on the AA database is an Audi TT:



Best wishes, Colin

Fantuzzi

3,297 posts

145 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
Conscript said:
graeme4130 said:
Earlier this year at Spa, I was having a beer with a few other petrol heads and the subject of Chris Harris's videos, for whatever reason, came up
Everyone seems to love Chris's videos, and for good reason, as they're generally fantastic
However, it did evolve into him having a massive 'Harris fanboy' following and one of the guys I was with joked and suggested that even if he made a video and declared his love for a car that was generally considered to be absolutely crap and a danger on modern roads, that suddenly the Chris Harris fanboy masses would join in and rejoice with him how this normally hated car must be proclaimed as the next big thing and that 'everyone should own on'
The example of the hateful bag of nails we used in the joke was the 2CV, and low and behold the video arrives and we now have circa 130 posts proclaiming an otherwise unloved car as the next big thing and how everyone's already known this

Chris Harris videos have engaged the masses and I love them, but a 2CV, in my eyes is a step to far
Is it not possible to appreciate the video without agreeing with the point being made?

I really enjoyed the video. It was interesting, amusing and gave a fresh perspective on the car. Doesn't mean I immediately change my opinion of the car to match Chris's.

Same goes for a lot of his videos. I enjoy the presentation and character of his videos, and his presenting style. Doesn't make me a fanboy who agrees with everything he says though.
Indeed ^, as much as I see the fun in eeking out the last mph, my automotive interests are firmly on the sporty side, so a 2cv is not my cup of tea. But surely fun on of a site like this is to be introduced to different and new things?

matthias73

2,883 posts

149 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
coppice said:
Sorry but utter balls; if you can't drive low powered vehicles and then bleat that you need lots of power to be safe then you really need to learn how to drive properly . Ask the thousands of commercial vehicle drivers, classic car owners for some advice on technique perhaps ?
You should try joining a motorway in an underpowered ford transit with only a few yards run up biglaugh

I might not call it dangerous, I'd say you risked arriving everywhere late!