E36 M3 saloon or Accord Type-R?

E36 M3 saloon or Accord Type-R?

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Discussion

Strugs

Original Poster:

512 posts

228 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
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I know how much you all love this type of thread, but please humour me.. shootbiggrin

Need a performance saloon (4 door) for 12-18 months..

Criteria:

- Up to £4.5k
- As much 'oomph' as poss (with possibly one track outing)
- Sorted handling
- Minimal (further) depreciation (quite key consideration)
- Not cost it's purchase price to run..
- Not an Impreza/Lancer, and don't really think a T5 would tick enough boxes..

I'm thinking E36 M3 saloon (if I can find one at all, let alone one with good history!) or Accord Type-R..

Any other ideas? Anyone driven both the above?

TIA! smile

MissChief

7,095 posts

167 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
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E46 330i?

Strugs

Original Poster:

512 posts

228 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
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MissChief said:
E46 330i?
Been there, done that.. laugh

Has been on my short list.. Great car.. not sure how the value would hold up for the next year, and I think on balance an E36 M3 would edge the E46 330 (apart from servicing costs, I'd imagine!)?

morgrp

4,128 posts

197 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
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Audi A6 Quattro 2.7 bi-turbo or 4.2 v8?

Pebbles167

3,417 posts

151 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
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The M3 is in a bit of a different league in performance and running costs IMO.

As said above, I think an E46 330ci would be more comparable.

I've never driven an M3, but they are undoubtedly bloody quick. Your budget should get you a fair one.

It would also get you a decent example of an ATR or a 330. From driving both they are excellent. ATR is nimble but harder to work, 330 heavy feeling, but torquey. Both have a decent reliability record.

Watch for arch rust on older 330's and watch for 5th gear crunch on the ATR smile Both are strong engines, buy on condition, not mileage.

Strugs

Original Poster:

512 posts

228 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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morgrp said:
Audi A6 Quattro 2.7 bi-turbo or 4.2 v8?
Hadn't considered an Audi for the lack of handling? But if I could stretch to a B7 RS4.. I wish!

Blueprint

2,067 posts

233 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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I think you've basically nailed it with the E36 if you can find one.

scarebus

858 posts

170 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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The Accord was pitiful against the M3, it had such a dreadfully somber cabin, aircon was optional, and it looked so boring, According to me. The drive was nice, nice gear change and steering, but below 5000rpm everything will leave you in the dust, including Diesel Clios!
The M3 was a nicer place to be in, no need to mention the great engine, and was not hard work to keep up with modern traffic.
It now seems like people look back at the e36 with rose tinted glasses, hey there's even talk of prices rising!

Squirrelofwoe

3,181 posts

175 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Out of those two I'd have thought the M3 would be leagues ahead in terms of outright performance- if that's what you are after.

That said, I've owned my ATR just over a year now and I absolutely love it. To me it feels more like a hot-hatch that happens to sport a saloon body shell.

You do need to work the gears to get the most out of it, but if you enjoy doing this it rewards you in spades. I brought one after beginning to miss my DC2 that I'd sold on about a year previous, so I knew exactly what I was getting with it.

The cabin is typical late 90's fair so nothing to write home about, however the Recaro seats are simply amazing. Not quite as full-on as those in the Integra, but not far from it- extremely supportive and unbelievably comfy. They also look fantastic in the black/dark green combo.

Mine came fitted with a full Mongoose exhaust system and Typhoon air intake and the sound in this setup is one of the best I've heard from a 4-cylinder engine- better even than the DC2.

The only real downsides are the fuel economy- it drinks V-Power like it's going out of fashion when you drive it anything like it wants to be driven, and secondly the noise on motorway journeys. I had a 4.5 hour mostly motorway drive to bring it home and I wouldn't wish anyone to have to go through that... If ever a car needs a 6th gear this is it, but 99% of my journeys are all b-roads with the odd short dual carriageway thrown in and for this it is superb.

But at the end of the day I paid £1,800 for it at around 100,000miles, with full service history, and it gets used everyday. I got the cam belt changed when I brought it (can be expensive but I have a friendly honda mechanic) and other than servicing it has not put a foot wrong in 13 or so months I've owned it.

I've not tracked it, but I can imagine with a decent set of tyres it would take to it like a duck to water.

But as I said at the beginning, an M3 will be a different prospect in terms of performance (and possibly running costs). smile

TheJimi

24,860 posts

242 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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My instant thoughts were that there will be a fair difference in running costs between the two cars.

Has anyone owned & ran both? How much difference is there?

aka_kerrly

12,415 posts

209 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Strugs said:
Hadn't considered an Audi for the lack of handling? But if I could stretch to a B7 RS4.. I wish!
What lack of handling ???

An Audi S4 (b5 era) in standard form is a different level to a Accord Type R which with it's rather old tech 2.2 and long gearing does not feel fast and a fine match for a E36 M3.


unpc

2,831 posts

212 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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I had an E36 saloon and engine aside, it was pretty mediocre and running costs are high. That said I couldn't live with a VTEC's lack of torque either. You haven't stated budget or miles driven but if I was in the market for a cheap performance saloon I'd be looking at an S Type R.

Squirrelofwoe

3,181 posts

175 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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TheJimi said:
My instant thoughts were that there will be a fair difference in running costs between the two cars.
Mine too.

I love my ATR to bits but I would have an E36 M3 in a heartbeat if I thought I could run one without it consuming a fair chunk of my disposable income that I currently splurge on various other expensive hobbies hehe

Cambelt aside, nothing is really that expensive on the Honda.

aka_kerrly

12,415 posts

209 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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unpc said:
I had an E36 saloon and engine aside, it was pretty mediocre and running costs are high. That said I couldn't live with a VTEC's lack of torque either. You haven't stated budget or miles driven but if I was in the market for a cheap performance saloon I'd be looking at an S Type R.
The 2.2 does not lack torque, it makes 160+ lb-ft . What lets the Accord down is it's gear ratios.

Edit to add that a 2.2 straight six bmw makes 150 lb-ft and 170hp

Edited by aka_kerrly on Thursday 17th April 17:58

TheJimi

24,860 posts

242 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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and people being unable to use said ratios...

stevesingo

4,848 posts

221 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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aka_kerrly said:
What lack of handling ???

An Audi S4 (b5 era) in standard form is a different level to a Accord Type R which with it's rather old tech 2.2 and long gearing does not feel fast and a fine match for a E36 M3.
That would be the lack of handling caused by the cast iron anchor hanging off the front of the front axle line and a polar moment of inertia similar to the London eye!

Fast, yes! Good traction, yes! Good handling, no. Worthy alternative to an E36 M3, not if you value how a car drives.

Back to OP, an ATR is a fine car with the only dynamic downside being the overly long gear ratios and mentioned. Lower the VTEC point through a re-map and this is less of an issue. Cheaper running costs than an E36 M3. But, an E36 M3 is a better car, IMO.



(steven)

446 posts

213 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Pebbles167 said:
Your budget should get you a fair one.
Just bear in mind that with the E36 M3 being nearly 20 years old, a "fair one" is not the same thing as a fairly sound one.

While they are one of the cheapest ways into the 300hp club, most are in need of some kind of restoration by now. Don't expect a fault free example of £4.5K.

It depends on what condition you are willing to live with but check out the price of parts before you join the club (Front discs on the evo are over £100 a side). They aren't cars to run on tight budgets.




Strugs

Original Poster:

512 posts

228 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Good stuff above, folks, thank you..

Drove an ATR today.. nice car (and really nice seller!), but came away somewhat underwhelmed by the performance. I guess I expected it, but you do really need to be in the VTEC zone before it lifts it's skirts (at all) and that's not really to my taste.. I know ATRs are about the handling, but I'm never really going to experience that in a (shortish) test drive in someone else's p&j..

M3 saloons are so rare, I'll probably seek a drive in a coupe just to "get the general idea" and then (if it floats my boat) keep me beady's peeled for a saloon..

LiamM45

1,035 posts

179 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
What lack of handling ???

An Audi S4 (b5 era) in standard form is a different level to a Accord Type R which with it's rather old tech 2.2 and long gearing does not feel fast and a fine match for a E36 M3.
A b5 Audi S4 would not be much quicker than an Accord Type R, if at all. When I had my S4 it was about as quick as my friends Astra CDTi running a tuning box, circa 180-190bhp. As a drivers car, I'd imagine the M3 and ATR would be a totally different league.

In my opinion, the S4 is a nice cruiser, and will waft a family along nicely and it's fairly capable, especially when conditions aren't great, but as a fun drivers car, look elsewhere, it's not designed for that.

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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stevesingo said:
That would be the lack of handling caused by the cast iron anchor hanging off the front of the front axle line and a polar moment of inertia similar to the London eye!
As opposed to the E36 M3's cast iron anchor?