E36 M3 saloon or Accord Type-R?
Discussion
Something a little different?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
For the record I have nothing to do with either advert, and haven't driven either, but the Mondeo certainly looks a lot of car for not a lot of cash.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
For the record I have nothing to do with either advert, and haven't driven either, but the Mondeo certainly looks a lot of car for not a lot of cash.
LiamM45 said:
Something a little different?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
For the record I have nothing to do with either advert, and haven't driven either, but the Mondeo certainly looks a lot of car for not a lot of cash.
ST220 doesn't do much for me, but it has got me running to the classifieds for an ST200..http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
For the record I have nothing to do with either advert, and haven't driven either, but the Mondeo certainly looks a lot of car for not a lot of cash.
Spotted that GTA, but can't help thinking the ad is somewhat 'lacking'..
carl_w said:
stevesingo said:
That would be the lack of handling caused by the cast iron anchor hanging off the front of the front axle line and a polar moment of inertia similar to the London eye!
As opposed to the E36 M3's cast iron anchor?I've had long term experience owning both. Both have some flaws which will cost you money.
The Accord was superb, best steering i've had in any car and VTEC is addictive. However, many have "modz" and it's hard to find a clean original and low mileage one. As they get older piston ring wear and bulkhead rot are becoming very common which is why you see so many being broken these days.
The Accord was expensive, but the E36 M3 for me has been a whole new level of expenditure on a car. It's certainly a level up on performance though. The steering isn't great compared to the Accord as it has too many turns lock-to-lock, but I'll be sorting this tomorrow with a E46 steering rack. It can also be a pig to drive in traffic (notchy gearbox, stiff accelerator pedal and low clutch bite point are all standard on the E36 M3!) but at the same time hugely rewarding on a weekend morning blast which is what I use mine for.
With both cars unless you spend top money you will be looking at spending at least what you paid again getting them to mint condition if you have OCD like me and I am not exaggerating!
The Accord was superb, best steering i've had in any car and VTEC is addictive. However, many have "modz" and it's hard to find a clean original and low mileage one. As they get older piston ring wear and bulkhead rot are becoming very common which is why you see so many being broken these days.
The Accord was expensive, but the E36 M3 for me has been a whole new level of expenditure on a car. It's certainly a level up on performance though. The steering isn't great compared to the Accord as it has too many turns lock-to-lock, but I'll be sorting this tomorrow with a E46 steering rack. It can also be a pig to drive in traffic (notchy gearbox, stiff accelerator pedal and low clutch bite point are all standard on the E36 M3!) but at the same time hugely rewarding on a weekend morning blast which is what I use mine for.
With both cars unless you spend top money you will be looking at spending at least what you paid again getting them to mint condition if you have OCD like me and I am not exaggerating!
E36 M3 if you can find a nice unmolested example. I thi they reached the bottom of their value curve a while ago now. The decent ones seem to have increased quite significantly value wise in the last 12 months though. I remember not so long ago there was lots of standard well maintained cars around £4-£5k, now they seem to be around £6k plus
NelsonR32 said:
I've had long term experience owning both. Both have some flaws which will cost you money.
The Accord was superb, best steering i've had in any car and VTEC is addictive. However, many have "modz" and it's hard to find a clean original and low mileage one. As they get older piston ring wear and bulkhead rot are becoming very common which is why you see so many being broken these days.
The Accord was expensive, but the E36 M3 for me has been a whole new level of expenditure on a car. It's certainly a level up on performance though. The steering isn't great compared to the Accord as it has too many turns lock-to-lock, but I'll be sorting this tomorrow with a E46 steering rack. It can also be a pig to drive in traffic (notchy gearbox, stiff accelerator pedal and low clutch bite point are all standard on the E36 M3!) but at the same time hugely rewarding on a weekend morning blast which is what I use mine for.
With both cars unless you spend top money you will be looking at spending at least what you paid again getting them to mint condition if you have OCD like me and I am not exaggerating!
Cracking response.. just what I was after - someone that's owned both! Cheers..The Accord was superb, best steering i've had in any car and VTEC is addictive. However, many have "modz" and it's hard to find a clean original and low mileage one. As they get older piston ring wear and bulkhead rot are becoming very common which is why you see so many being broken these days.
The Accord was expensive, but the E36 M3 for me has been a whole new level of expenditure on a car. It's certainly a level up on performance though. The steering isn't great compared to the Accord as it has too many turns lock-to-lock, but I'll be sorting this tomorrow with a E46 steering rack. It can also be a pig to drive in traffic (notchy gearbox, stiff accelerator pedal and low clutch bite point are all standard on the E36 M3!) but at the same time hugely rewarding on a weekend morning blast which is what I use mine for.
With both cars unless you spend top money you will be looking at spending at least what you paid again getting them to mint condition if you have OCD like me and I am not exaggerating!
aka_kerrly said:
unpc said:
I had an E36 saloon and engine aside, it was pretty mediocre and running costs are high. That said I couldn't live with a VTEC's lack of torque either. You haven't stated budget or miles driven but if I was in the market for a cheap performance saloon I'd be looking at an S Type R.
The 2.2 does not lack torque, it makes 160+ lb-ft . What lets the Accord down is it's gear ratios.Edit to add that a 2.2 straight six bmw makes 150 lb-ft and 170hp
Edited by aka_kerrly on Thursday 17th April 17:58
Strugs said:
ST220 doesn't do much for me, but it has got me running to the classifieds for an ST200..
Spotted that GTA, but can't help thinking the ad is somewhat 'lacking'..
What do you mean 'lacking'? It's short and to the point, but it covers all the bases. To be honest, the best cars I've bought have been well priced cars with ads like that. Sure, it might have ripped seats or something, but everything the ad does have suggests it's been looked after. Clutch, diff and cambelt are some of the main points on them - only thing the ad doesn't mention specifically is the wishbones which are under £200 to do. Spotted that GTA, but can't help thinking the ad is somewhat 'lacking'..
stevesingo said:
That would be the lack of handling caused by the cast iron anchor hanging off the front of the front axle line and a polar moment of inertia similar to the London eye!
Fast, yes! Good traction, yes! Good handling, no. Worthy alternative to an E36 M3, not if you value how a car drives.
Back to OP, an ATR is a fine car with the only dynamic downside being the overly long gear ratios and mentioned. Lower the VTEC point through a re-map and this is less of an issue. Cheaper running costs than an E36 M3. But, an E36 M3 is a better car, IMO.
Poor handling. Right. As I recall, these cars were typically equal to or faster on a road course than the M3. Though you may not prefer the feel of the S4, a car that truly handles poorly is also a slow car around a road course.Fast, yes! Good traction, yes! Good handling, no. Worthy alternative to an E36 M3, not if you value how a car drives.
Back to OP, an ATR is a fine car with the only dynamic downside being the overly long gear ratios and mentioned. Lower the VTEC point through a re-map and this is less of an issue. Cheaper running costs than an E36 M3. But, an E36 M3 is a better car, IMO.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5776738 ---> and that is a B6 S4, with an even bigger V8 "cast iron anchor" hanging off the front end. In compromised vehicles such as performance road-going sedans and hatchbacks, differences in handling often amount to shades of grey. Though the hyperbole here never ceases to amuse.
A yank magazine voted the b6 s4 above the e46 m3? Christ.
As an ex-b5 S4 owner, I'd honestly say a better comparison would be an e36 328 sport. Straight line speed is similar, round corners the S4 will roll,wallow, understeer and the standard brakes aren't too good. Remember the S4 weighs nearly as much if not more than an E39 M5, except the S4 has 265bhp instead of 400bhp.
I'm not knocking the S4 here. It's a good car, a very nice car to drive, and very capable in all conditions. It is not - in my opinion - an exciting car to drive, which is why I sold mine (plus the potential for HUGE bills). It's a very discrete way to waft along at a fair speed with the family in tow and you won't get 'boy racers' trying it on at every dual carriageway! This is the S4's strong point, it's completely anonymous!
If you have deep enough pockets to maintain and modify the S4, I have no doubt it would be an amazing car. There's a huge scene for modified S4's if you wanted to go down that route.
As an ex-b5 S4 owner, I'd honestly say a better comparison would be an e36 328 sport. Straight line speed is similar, round corners the S4 will roll,wallow, understeer and the standard brakes aren't too good. Remember the S4 weighs nearly as much if not more than an E39 M5, except the S4 has 265bhp instead of 400bhp.
I'm not knocking the S4 here. It's a good car, a very nice car to drive, and very capable in all conditions. It is not - in my opinion - an exciting car to drive, which is why I sold mine (plus the potential for HUGE bills). It's a very discrete way to waft along at a fair speed with the family in tow and you won't get 'boy racers' trying it on at every dual carriageway! This is the S4's strong point, it's completely anonymous!
If you have deep enough pockets to maintain and modify the S4, I have no doubt it would be an amazing car. There's a huge scene for modified S4's if you wanted to go down that route.
I have owned both,only recently selling my Accord. The M3 was a later 3.2 Evo and it was ace,really well balanced,fast and cost next to nothing to run. It never went wrong and and averaged 30 odd mpg most of the time. I loved it.
The Accord was a completely different car,but no less fun. Mine was quite highly modified and it flew on vtec,you have to keep them on the boil to get the most out of them and it's without doubt the best fwd car I have driven. A friend has a very sorted integra type r,however the accord felt every bit as good. Completely reliable but surprisingly thirsty for both oil and petrol and a nuisance at mot time for needing suspension bushes and struggling to get through emissions due to rich running,apparently they are all like that!
Great cars both of them,but I would only buy one of them again and that would be the M3.
The Accord was a completely different car,but no less fun. Mine was quite highly modified and it flew on vtec,you have to keep them on the boil to get the most out of them and it's without doubt the best fwd car I have driven. A friend has a very sorted integra type r,however the accord felt every bit as good. Completely reliable but surprisingly thirsty for both oil and petrol and a nuisance at mot time for needing suspension bushes and struggling to get through emissions due to rich running,apparently they are all like that!
Great cars both of them,but I would only buy one of them again and that would be the M3.
scherzkeks said:
Poor handling. Right. As I recall, these cars were typically equal to or faster on a road course than the M3. Though you may not prefer the feel of the S4, a car that truly handles poorly is also a slow car around a road course.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5776738 ---> and that is a B6 S4, with an even bigger V8 "cast iron anchor" hanging off the front end. In compromised vehicles such as performance road-going sedans and hatchbacks, differences in handling often amount to shades of grey. Though the hyperbole here never ceases to amuse.
Poor handling. Right indeed.http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5776738 ---> and that is a B6 S4, with an even bigger V8 "cast iron anchor" hanging off the front end. In compromised vehicles such as performance road-going sedans and hatchbacks, differences in handling often amount to shades of grey. Though the hyperbole here never ceases to amuse.
The fact you manage to dig up the only publication ever to place a B6 S4 ahead of a E46 M3 holds no water when discussing the B5 vs E36.
There is a difference between handling alone, and all the other things that influence pace across the ground and/or on a track, such as traction, brakes, power to weight and ultimate cornering capability.
There are some cars that are very slow across the ground and/or on a track that handle very well indeed.
I've not driven an M3 properly so can't really compare the 2. I currently own an ATR though and it's a brilliant car. Comfortable and refined when the wife is driving the kids about, manic and sharp when you get a shot on your own. The fantastic handling and Recaro seats deserve a special mention.
I initially thought it was slow (came from a WRX Impreza) but i needed to re-learn how to drive a high revving n/a properly and get used to the gear ratios. It's hard work to keep on the boil but very rewarding.
Mine was £2k with 80k on the clocks. Servicing is peanuts and they are pretty reliable. Good enough on fuel, just check the oil regularly as it can use a wee bit if you are on VTEC often (it's addictive!)
Mine is stock other than induction/exhaust and it sounds fantastic on VTEC. When overtaking people you sometimes get a bit of fist waving, the 40MPH brigade don't like being passed by a car doing 8000rpm!
Spoiler seems a bit OTT but has grown on me as it helps you locate the car in Tesco car park.
Go buy one, de-spoiler it and have a great Q-car
I initially thought it was slow (came from a WRX Impreza) but i needed to re-learn how to drive a high revving n/a properly and get used to the gear ratios. It's hard work to keep on the boil but very rewarding.
Mine was £2k with 80k on the clocks. Servicing is peanuts and they are pretty reliable. Good enough on fuel, just check the oil regularly as it can use a wee bit if you are on VTEC often (it's addictive!)
Mine is stock other than induction/exhaust and it sounds fantastic on VTEC. When overtaking people you sometimes get a bit of fist waving, the 40MPH brigade don't like being passed by a car doing 8000rpm!
Spoiler seems a bit OTT but has grown on me as it helps you locate the car in Tesco car park.
Go buy one, de-spoiler it and have a great Q-car
scherzkeks said:
Poor handling. Right. As I recall, these cars were typically equal to or faster on a road course than the M3. Though you may not prefer the feel of the S4, a car that truly handles poorly is also a slow car around a road course.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5776738 ---> and that is a B6 S4, with an even bigger V8 "cast iron anchor" hanging off the front end. In compromised vehicles such as performance road-going sedans and hatchbacks, differences in handling often amount to shades of grey. Though the hyperbole here never ceases to amuse.
Audi fanboy. Ignore.http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5776738 ---> and that is a B6 S4, with an even bigger V8 "cast iron anchor" hanging off the front end. In compromised vehicles such as performance road-going sedans and hatchbacks, differences in handling often amount to shades of grey. Though the hyperbole here never ceases to amuse.
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