RE: Volkswagen Golf R 400
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
"VW has been using Haldex four-wheel drive systems for the best part of 20 years, and the R's system is thoroughly familiar. Under normal use torque is channeled through the front wheels, with drive transferred rearwards when slip is detected."
So, it's still only going to send any power rearwards when you've got understeer. Curiously, the S3 review says absolutely nothing about the behaviour of the Haldex. The Golf review also seems to gloss over the transfer from FWD to AWD.
Incidentally, as I said, my friend didn't dislike the S3, he liked it a lot, just felt that the Haldex let it down. I understand he's looking at used S4s instead now.
They are wrong, unfortunately. Gens IV (on VAG cars from 2008 on in EU) and V don't act that way. So, it's still only going to send any power rearwards when you've got understeer. Curiously, the S3 review says absolutely nothing about the behaviour of the Haldex. The Golf review also seems to gloss over the transfer from FWD to AWD.
Incidentally, as I said, my friend didn't dislike the S3, he liked it a lot, just felt that the Haldex let it down. I understand he's looking at used S4s instead now.
RoverP6B said:
Sorry? I've never had anything half that quick - 145bhp/ton is the highest p/w ratio of any car I've owned (this being my old Rover P6 3500S).
Whoosh Parrot aside, some might say that RWD is an unnecessary frivolity on anything with that little power/that much weight, might as well just stick a little NA four pot in and drive it through the front wheels, at least that way you don't have to abandon your car on a 1% gradient after a light dusting of snow.MiseryStreak said:
Whoosh Parrot aside, some might say that RWD is an unnecessary frivolity on anything with that little power/that much weight, might as well just stick a little NA four pot in and drive it through the front wheels, at least that way you don't have to abandon your car on a 1% gradient after a light dusting of snow.
Well, I've been driving RWD for 36 years and have never yet had to abandon a car in snow - and that's even without bothering with winter tyres. Many's the time I've breezed straight up snowy hills past abandoned FWD cars and 4x4s. Even stuff like Range Rovers will get stuck when they've got 24" chrome rims and low-profile summer tyres on 'em......and what in the name of all that's holy is a whoosh parrot?
Escort Si-130 said:
How the f
k is this dull.
Honestly, I can see where he's coming from:k is this dull.- It's yet another Golf with a bodykit
- It's yet another inline-4, which could have 2,000 BHP but still lack character, with too many exhausts
- It's using a FWD-based AWD system
Escort Si-130 said:
I really don't know what some of you twits here on PH are on.
I don't know why some twits are on PH. 
When will some realise that horsepower does not a driver's car make? - I am sure that I'd have more fun wringing every last rev out of a GT86 than in a "fast but safe" front-biased AWD, self-shifting hatchback with twice the power.Escort Si-130 said:
I for one are glad we still get cars like this in this tree hugger society.
So we should be grateful and meekly accept the same generic parts but just microwaved for a bit longer as "driver's cars"? 
Screw the PC-brigade. Thankfully, others seem to agree and there are a number of new cars I'd much rather have than a Golf. Having said that though, VAG do seem to have made big improvements judging by the Golf R & S3 reviews so far and this is the most interesting yet.Well said Clivey. I don't know if I'd fit in a GT86 and I'm looking more at the barges-and-4x4s end of the market, but if I was 30 all over again, there's no way I'd spend well over £30k on a Golf. It might seem a lot of horsepower for the money, but I just couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a fundamentally FWD hatch that only VW cognoscenti will realise isn't a boggo 1.4 TSI except on the rare occasions when you have enough space to floor it...
Johnnytheboy said:
I'd buy a GT86 but it's nowhere near quick enough and doesn't have a hatch, so can't put the dog in.
I want performance and practicality - if that means I can't have RWD and a naturally aspirated engine, so be it.
Virtually nobody does N/A any more, unfortunately, but RWD is available in the C-segment in the BMW 1-series.I want performance and practicality - if that means I can't have RWD and a naturally aspirated engine, so be it.
BTW, the GT86 has 146bhp/tonne - on what planet is that nowhere near quick enough?
RoverP6B said:
Well said Clivey. I don't know if I'd fit in a GT86 and I'm looking more at the barges-and-4x4s end of the market, but if I was 30 all over again, there's no way I'd spend well over £30k on a Golf. It might seem a lot of horsepower for the money, but I just couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a fundamentally FWD hatch that only VW cognoscenti will realise isn't a boggo 1.4 TSI except on the rare occasions when you have enough space to floor it...
Sorry, I should add badge snob to the list too. And whatever the name is for people that think more power than can get you to the national speed limit in under a day is a waste.The GT-86 is a good example of what I was saying, despite having all the on paper credentials of being a perfect driver's car, it has so far fallen slightly short of the mark, and not even on many people's radar. I don't know where you have been for the last 36 years but the hot hatch is quite a successful recipe, not some blue sky thinking phase that will probably go away, you can appreciate that other people have different criteria to you in choosing their performance cars?
As for the whoosh parrot, erm...what can I say? You were accused of being an alternate username of a very prolific PH forum user, 300bhp/ton, many would regard as troll-like in his insistence on telling people their choice of car was just wrong. And you took it to mean something else. And breathe...
MiseryStreak said:
Sorry, I should add badge snob to the list too. And whatever the name is for people that think more power than can get you to the national speed limit in under a day is a waste.
The GT-86 is a good example of what I was saying, despite having all the on paper credentials of being a perfect driver's car, it has so far fallen slightly short of the mark, and not even on many people's radar. I don't know where you have been for the last 36 years but the hot hatch is quite a successful recipe, not some blue sky thinking phase that will probably go away, you can appreciate that other people have different criteria to you in choosing their performance cars?
As for the whoosh parrot, erm...what can I say? You were accused of being an alternate username of a very prolific PH forum user, 300bhp/ton, many would regard as troll-like in his insistence on telling people their choice of car was just wrong. And you took it to mean something else. And breathe...
Nothing to do with badge-snobbery (hence why I keep banging on about how great old Rovers were), I just don't like Golfs enough to be prepared to blow over £30k on one. If Dacia made a RWD car with a nice engine (more than 4 cylinders) that drove well, I'd like it regardless of the badge. A Golf is just too ordinary. Also, I bought my BMW because it drives well, not because I brag about owning a BMW. If I was interested in bragging, I'd have bought a much newer one that didn't cost a bit under £4k like mine did. The GT-86 is a nice car and plenty quick enough for the real world - 146bhp/ton (and that based on an EU weight figure which is higher than that found by most magazines) is much more than you need to get to the national speed limit in a day as you describe. 0-62 in 7.6 seconds and a top speed of 140mph is a quick car - I guess it must be lower-geared than my 5-series to achieve that, and 6th just for economy - my 5er does 140, but is roughly 9 seconds 0-60 (and about 400kg heavier). It's Hot hatches hold no interest for me, I'm afraid, and if I did want one, I think I'd prefer basic FWD to Haldex AWD with its unpredictable power transfer. I used to drive my wife's Peugeot 205 a lot, and that was a nimble little car, but it didn't have enough power to make the FWD a problem. This Golf has 5 1/3 times the power of that 205 - and when you're trying to put down 400bhp, you really need RWD or permanent 4WD...The GT-86 is a good example of what I was saying, despite having all the on paper credentials of being a perfect driver's car, it has so far fallen slightly short of the mark, and not even on many people's radar. I don't know where you have been for the last 36 years but the hot hatch is quite a successful recipe, not some blue sky thinking phase that will probably go away, you can appreciate that other people have different criteria to you in choosing their performance cars?
As for the whoosh parrot, erm...what can I say? You were accused of being an alternate username of a very prolific PH forum user, 300bhp/ton, many would regard as troll-like in his insistence on telling people their choice of car was just wrong. And you took it to mean something else. And breathe...
As for PHer 300bhp/ton, I am not he. He's not posted for a while, I see, but I arrived well before he fell quiet. Didn't he buy some dodgy old Mustang from the 80s? Not my cup of tea I must say.
RoverP6B said:
Also, I bought my BMW because it drives well, not because I brag about owning a BMW. If I was interested in bragging,
Oh, but you are. And at the same time you realize that a 150 hp 5 series estate is nothing to brag about. Quite the pickle to be in.I'll take my Golf R EVO in envy green please.
scherzkeks said:
BMW's M135 AWD has a 56/44 weight balance, pretty close to the Golf R at 58/46.
As I have already explained, these figures are too simplistic. With the BMW, the additional weight over the RWD version is all still behind the front axle; of the "58%" you quote for the Golf, much of it is still ahead of the axle line...though much better than before.scherzkeks said:
And Haldex Gens 4 and 5 can lock up at any time, and do not require slip to do so. In fact with the clutch locked or nearly so, VAGs latest implementation with the e-torque vectoring on each axle is very similar to the system in the Polo WRC, which locks the F/R axles and uses LSDs F/R. Given that Haldex is faster than a purely mech system to shuffle torque, this is quite a good setup for a sporty road car.
Yet in most applications, it behaves completely differently to the Polo WRC. - Despite improvements, the front bias is still one of the main reasons the handling of almost all cars equipped the generation 4/5 systems frustrates and is all about managing front-end grip at the limit. The only exception I've driven is the Insignia VXR once you've engaged "Sport" or "VXR" modes, which is much more neutral. Hopefully, the Golf R 400 is more like that than the awful 8P S3 (facelift) that a friend used to own.Clivey said:
As I have already explained, these figures are too simplistic. With the BMW, the additional weight over the RWD version is all still behind the front axle; of the "58%" you quote for the Golf, much of it is still ahead of the axle line...though much better than before.
Actually the AWD version has 4% of additional weight in the nose, exactly where it is is hard to say, unless you have an engineering release with an explanation. And since the engine is longitudinal and centered on the axle, the difference is negligible to the transverse mounted engine in the Golf, where the engine is mounted lower, canted, and is physically shorter than the weightier 6 in the BMW. Clivey said:
Yet in most applications, it behaves completely differently to the Polo WRC. - Despite improvements, the front bias is still one of the main reasons the handling of almost all cars equipped the generation 4/5 systems frustrates and is all about managing front-end grip at the limit. The only exception I've driven is the Insignia VXR once you've engaged "Sport" or "VXR" modes, which is much more neutral. Hopefully, the Golf R 400 is more like that than the awful 8P S3 (facelift) that a friend used to own.
Managing front end grip at the limit is a characteristic of all AWD cars with even power distributions, and this goes for the Gen 4 and 5 Haldex cars too, despite the fact that their earlier front-drive characteristics have largely been transitioned to RWD. But to someone who has little experience with AWD, I can understand why they might not get how the tendency to push is exacerbated with AWD when the car is not being driven with sympathy for the setup.The 8P was a honey, miss that car!
ShaunTheSheep said:
Have those seats been fitted to anything else in the VAG stable? Are they a drag and drop of the Leon Cupra seats?
Recaro sportster CS. These were an option way back on the mk5 gti and are an option on RS model audis. Also used in lotus evora, mk2 focus rs and a bunch of other fast cars.rob.e said:
Recaro sportster CS. These were an option way back on the mk5 gti and are an option on RS model audis. Also used in lotus evora, mk2 focus rs and a bunch of other fast cars.
Mucho grassy ass.£2k for a pair so that's cheaper than ticking the leather box and no doubt retain some value at resale time while keeping the originals pristine... man maths works!
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